Broke out the PR 3 today to change some sound levels on my PK 2000 E 7 and my Blue Line RSD 15.
By the way, thanks to the people that answered my question about cutting the LED's off the E 7. Has a E 6 shell on it and looks great.
The Blue Line RSD 15 had been running great, it was just to loud. It had been running on address 98. I pulled the motor decoder and read the CV's. When I was looking at the CV's, I saw the sound decoder was set to 99? That was odd, I doubled checked my list and I was running it under 98. Changed the sound CV's and against my better judgment changed the Sound Decoder to address 98.
Installed the motor decoder and gave it a test run, you are right. No Sound? Changed the sound decoder back to address 99 like it was, still no sound. Hit reset to factory default, start getting code 308. Well the wheels do look nasty and set it a side till Sunday.
I am 99.9% sure the motor and sound decoder should be the same address right?
Any thoughts on the subject? I am not new to Blue Line, I have been running them for a few years. But this has me vexed.
Ken
I hate Rust
cudaken Broke out the PR 3 today to change some sound levels on my PK 2000 E 7 and my Blue Line RSD 15. By the way, thanks to the people that answered my question about cutting the LED's off the E 7. Has a E 6 shell on it and looks great. The Blue Line RSD 15 had been running great, it was just to loud. It had been running on address 98. I pulled the motor decoder and read the CV's. When I was looking at the CV's, I saw the sound decoder was set to 99? That was odd, I doubled checked my list and I was running it under 98. Changed the sound CV's and against my better judgment changed the Sound Decoder to address 98. Installed the motor decoder and gave it a test run, you are right. No Sound? Changed the sound decoder back to address 99 like it was, still no sound. Hit reset to factory default, start getting code 308. Well the wheels do look nasty and set it a side till Sunday. I am 99.9% sure the motor and sound decoder should be the same address right? Any thoughts on the subject? I am not new to Blue Line, I have been running them for a few years. But this has me vexed. Ken
Hi Ken,
I would say welcome to the world of Blueline locomotives, but as you said, you have already been running these locomotives for a few years.
I, too, have some Blueline locomotives that I purchased from Factory Direct Trains a few years ago. Fortunately, for me, I had FDT install and program the decoders before shipping them to me.
The problem is that Blueline engines have two decoders, not one, a sound decoder and a motor decoder. They must be programmed in sync. BLI long ago conceded problems with the dual programming required to successfully run these engines with sound.
As I understand the dual programming issue, the "lock" function on the sound decoder plays an important role in the programming process. I cannot tell you how to fix the problem off the top of my head. But, if you Google something like "Broadway Limited Imports Blueline decoder long address", you will find a lot of helpful information including a discussion on the Atlas forum about this issue.
When I first received my Blueline engines from FDT, I still had to program the long addresses on both engines. I wound up calling BLI customer service for help, and they were great. The "lock" issue came up in the conversation.
I can recall that you did right to reset the factory values, and that the best course of action is to program the long address of both decoders with the same long address. As I recall, you need to lock the short address on the sound decoder to avoid confusion between the two decoders, but don't hold me to that recollection.
Good luck and let us know in detail what you have to do to solve the problem. We can all benefit from your pain.
Rich
Alton Junction
I have 5 Blueline steamers and have installed 6 motor decoders in club members Blueline locos. In all the Bluelines I fit either a TCS T1 or the MC2 which ever fits better. Every sound decoder (soundtraxx Tsunamis, QSI, Paragon 2) is actually 3 decoders in one package. Sound, motor control and lighting. Bluelines should be treated the same after fitting the motor decoder. Forget about the decoder lock feature! It will cause and has caused more problems then necessary. Configuration CVs should match in each decoder. These are CV29,19,1, 17, and 18. Motor control CVs will be ignored by the Blueline decoder while changing because the Blueline does not control the motor. The same is true for Sound CVs. The motor decoder will ignore a CV change if it does not use it. Program on the main or if you have a Power Cab or program booster then do your programming on the program track. Treat the dual decoder as a single decoder and you should have no problems. I have one old Athearn loco that has 3 decoders inside.
Pete
I pray every day I break even, Cause I can really use the money!
I started with nothing and still have most of it left!
locoi1sa Ken I have 5 Blueline steamers and have installed 6 motor decoders in club members Blueline locos. In all the Bluelines I fit either a TCS T1 or the MC2 which ever fits better. Every sound decoder (soundtraxx Tsunamis, QSI, Paragon 2) is actually 3 decoders in one package. Sound, motor control and lighting. Bluelines should be treated the same after fitting the motor decoder. Forget about the decoder lock feature! It will cause and has caused more problems then necessary. Configuration CVs should match in each decoder. These are CV29,19,1, 17, and 18. Motor control CVs will be ignored by the Blueline decoder while changing because the Blueline does not control the motor. The same is true for Sound CVs. The motor decoder will ignore a CV change if it does not use it. Program on the main or if you have a Power Cab or program booster then do your programming on the program track. Treat the dual decoder as a single decoder and you should have no problems. I have one old Athearn loco that has 3 decoders inside. Pete
Pete,
I am going to agree with you on this. You joggled my memory of my conversation with Customer Support at BLI. I remenber now that I had read about the "lock" feature and BLI said to forget about that as well. That had been their original advice, as well as default option, to lock the address in the sound decoder, but it led to other problems. So, your advice to treat the dual decoders as a single decoder is correct. Both should have the same long address.
Ken,
Check out this discussion, it may be of some help, or maybe not:
http://www.amhobby.com/products/tech/broadway/blueline_prog_reports.html
Stupid question but...Did you:
1) stick the default chip back in when you tried to reprogram it
2) Use CV8 =8 to reset on the main, or programming track. If programming track did you use a program track booster?
The simplest way to program these engines is by programming on the main. Only Lenz based systems don't support programming addresses on the main. But the blue line manual tells you how to get around this.
If you have any more problems, feel free to write me. I have 2 of those Blueline models.
Don - Specializing in layout DC->DCC conversions
Modeling C&O transition era and steel industries There's Nothing Like Big Steam!
I think we are missing the point, Ken knows how and is well able to program his Blue Line engines. He even program the motors decoders out of the locos, he installs them into a P2K SD7 or SD9 for that purpose. He was only wandering why the motor decoder had an address of 99 instead of 98 as the sound decoder is programmed to. He was surprised that this set up was working and when both decoders where programmed to 98 they were not.
Jack W.
jalajoieHe was only wandering why the motor decoder had an address of 99 instead of 98 as the sound decoder is programmed to.
Why question it if it works?
According to the manual they should both be the same address when you program. But what it does internally is anyone's guess.
DigitalGriffin jalajoie: He was only wandering why the motor decoder had an address of 99 instead of 98 as the sound decoder is programmed to. Why question it if it works? According to the manual they should both be the same address when you program. But what it does internally is anyone's guess.
jalajoie: He was only wandering why the motor decoder had an address of 99 instead of 98 as the sound decoder is programmed to.
I agree with you, both decoders should be to the same address. What is happening with Ken's locos is beyond my understand.
jalajoie I think we are missing the point, Ken knows how and is well able to program his Blue Line engines. He even program the motors decoders out of the locos, he installs them into a P2K SD7 or SD9 for that purpose. He was only wandering why the motor decoder had an address of 99 instead of 98 as the sound decoder is programmed to. He was surprised that this set up was working and when both decoders where programmed to 98 they were not.
Dang Jack, you even remembered I use a SD 7 to program the motor decoder.
First, I am sorry I have taken this long to answer this post. I have been busy with other things, like redoing the kitchen. Plus I have been running my Passenger Train now that I have a Station Spur so i would not been using the RSD 15 in question.
When I do have the time to work on the RSD 15 is install the motor decoder and get the wheels clean. Dirty wheels can cause Code 308.
Next I will pull the Motor Decoder and try changing the sound decoder back to default using Decoder Pro and my PR 3. I will test the sound using by Bachmann E Z I use on the bench. If sound is working I will change my sound decode back to address 98, pop in the motor decoder at address 98 and I should be good to go. If I am not, you will be the first to hear about it.
I will all so take the time and study ever answer before I go forward
I might know what happen as well. Remember the Motor Decoder was at address 98 and Sounder Decoder showed 99 using decoder pro, but before it was running fine. All I wanted to do was lower the volume. I first tried reading the engine with both Decoders installed, maybe that caused the odd sound decoder address read out?
Don't remember who posted the article about Blue Line, but thanks. I skimmed through it, did I see the author said he installed a DH 163 in a Blue Line GE AC 6000? There no way in heck a DH 163 would fit is a AC 6000. I had to miss read.
Thanks again for all you time and effort!
Ken.
Forget that article. It is out dated and only refers to version 1 Blueline decoders. There were only about 250 version 1 decoders made before BLI realized the problems and changed mid production according to Mathew Wiliamson of BLI. Your RSD 15 should be either a version 6 or 7. Read CV7 if you can. Reading CVs of any sound decoder is iffy. With the low current of the program track , all the electronics and large capacitors its a wonder if you can read anything off the decoders. With dirty wheels and possibly loose connections your command station could just have miss interpreted what was really programed. It happens more than you think. I read a value that should not have been in a decoder once. I have never seen a value of 255 in CV29. I exited out of program track and tried again and got the right value. This was not even a sound decoder. Usually you will get a CAN NOT READ CV error. Sometimes you get scramble.
You're welcome.
What the heck, I thought the new software didn't allow duplicate posts?
Just thought I drop you folks a line and let you know the RSD 15 is back on the rails. I could not get the sounder to reset using Decoder Pro, so I used page mode of the SEB.
Other odd thing, I still cannot read all the CV's using decoder pro. But, I can write CV's with decoder pro. It will on the other hand read the CV's I wrote with Decoder Pro?
Lets faces it, if I own it, it going to act weird!
Thanks for all the answers and your time.
Tony's trains had an article about the blue line experiences, and they had a fit to get everything to work. I believe this is what you are experiencing
http://www.tonystrains.com/technews/bline_prog_reports.htm
BTW: Did you ever figure out what was causing all your engines to spontaniously go up in blue smoke?
Griffin, that problem was solved a year and a half ago. My layout was flunking the quarter test. Simon 1966 came over and found what I was over looking. I was fine till I added the new bench work to the main layout. I used 22 gauge wire for the feeders which was fine, but in my hast to test run the new section I used the same 22 gauge wire to run power from my main power blocks to the new section. Couple that with a 8 Amp Booster take it from there! Smoked $250.00 or so in decoders for $1.00 worth of wire.
After the Fix, I have lost 4 decoders. But, 3 of engines that let the smoke out had the heck ran out o them and the motors are shot after 400 plus hours of hard pulling. Other one was a Stewart, and it had a bearing go bad after only 30 to 40 hours?
cudaken I used 22 gauge wire for the feeders which was fine, but in my haste to test run the new section I used the same 22 gauge wire to run power from my main power blocks to the new section. Couple that with a 8 Amp Booster take it from there! Smoked $250.00 or so in decoders for $1.00 worth of wire. Ken
I used 22 gauge wire for the feeders which was fine, but in my haste to test run the new section I used the same 22 gauge wire to run power from my main power blocks to the new section. Couple that with a 8 Amp Booster take it from there! Smoked $250.00 or so in decoders for $1.00 worth of wire.
I was horrified to read those three sentences and to hear what happened to you.
I am no electrician, but the consequences of not using larger gauge wire from your main power blocks to the new section leave me incredulous.
Are there no safety checks built into the system to prevent such a catastrophe?
I know that in our house electrical systems, the proper gauge wire should be matched to the amps of the circuit breaker (14 gauge wire to 15 amp circuit, 12 gauge wire to 20 amp circuit, etc.). But, I didn't realize the devastating consequences of such an error on one's model railroad.
Can some electrical experts out there tell us more about this whole topic? The dos and don'ts, etc.
Rich, I still don't understand why it happens. But from what I picked up some how the thin wire fools the booster into thinking the layout needs more power. You would think the new section would be lacking power.
I have 14 gauge Bus wires to the power blocks now. All so anytime I add track I do the quarter test, if the booster does not shut down quick I add more feeders.
cudaken Rich, I still don't understand why it happens. But from what I picked up some how the thin wire fools the booster into thinking the layout needs more power. You would think the new section would be lacking power. I have 14 gauge Bus wires to the power blocks now. All so anytime I add track I do the quarter test, if the booster does not shut down quick I add more feeders. Ken
Ken, my sympathies. $250 down the drain. Ouch !
Ahhh good to know Ken. I wouldn't have even thought to check for too thin a feeders.
Thin wires cause the voltage across the line to drop must faster than thick wires do. This is epecially important because we are dealing with such small voltages to begin with.
As you went from the higher voltage power district to the lower power one there was a current rush that went through the loco as it bridged the gap. (Higher voltage moves to lower voltage (where the thinner wire it) You loco's probly acted as the bridge between the two. This 10 amp current rush is what fried your locos. (I'm guessing near the pickups) Amps are more dangerous than voltage in many cases.
I like to use this calculator to figure out what my voltage drop will be. I try to keep it below 10% (about 1.4V) and less than 1% (.14Volts) between power districts)
http://www.nooutage.com/vdrop.htm
I really can't recommend this device enough when testing power between districts for DCC. Like I said the voltage difference on either side of the gap shouldn't be more than .14 Volts for HO
http://www.tonystrainexchange.com/technews/rrampmeter.htm