I'm just getting into DCC after being out of mode railroading for around 15 years. Last night I set a Zephyr up and ran it just a bit and that's all the actual operating experience I have with DCC so far. I have a PR3 and just downloaded JMRI a few minutes ago. My question is this. I've got a fleet of about 30 diesel locomotives made up of Athearn Genesis and RTR, some ATLAS, a BLI and a few Kato. A couple of the Atlas has the dual mode decoders in them and one of the Genesis has a Tsunami. I've purchased two DH163PS's so far but obviously have a large number of decoders still to purchase. If I want to be able to make consists up from any of the locos in my fleet is it best to stick with one brand of decoder or can I do I get them to run at the same speeds using different brands of decoders? A friend told me I should stick with only one brand (he likes Digitrax) because it was easier to program them to run at the same speeds but some of the locos I have, for example a Kato F40PH have decoders made by another manufacturer (TCS) that appear to be a better fit for that application. So I'm trying to figure out what way to go on this before I start ordering decoders. Also I was told I should buy a throttle with digital speed display like a DT402 to make it easier to do speed matching. Do I really need that or can I use the Zephyr with JMRI to do the speed matching? Thanks in advance for any help you can provide.
John
Speed matching is more about the loco's than the decoder. If the loco's are geared differently or are different brands it doesn't matter what decoder you have, it will still need to be matched. It's best to match everything to the slowest loco since the slower loco's cant match to anything faster :) Do a search of the forum, there are many threads explaining the best ways to match.
Good Luck
Springfield PA
Hamltnblue Speed matching is more about the loco's than the decoder. If the loco's are geared differently or are different brands it doesn't matter what decoder you have, it will still need to be matched. It's best to match everything to the slowest loco since the slower loco's cant match to anything faster :) Do a search of the forum, there are many threads explaining the best ways to match. Good Luck
So what I was told then may not be entirely true. I was told if you ran the same decoder in all the locos that it may settting them up easy because you could use the same CV values for all and they'd be pretty close to the same but it sounds as if and from what you are saying it makes sense that each locomotive decoder is going to need some individual adjusting to make them up.
So do most of you feel then that it's fine to mix and match brands of decoders?
Yes absolutely, I have Digitrax, Lenz, NCE, TCS (I am leaning more and more toward TCS) and QSI sound decoders.
Jack W.
No problems mixing and matching decoders in locos that will be consisted. Just because the locos have the same decoders does not mean they will automatically run at the same speeds. Different brands of locos use different motors and different gear ratios, and particularly in Proto 200 this has even varied between runs of the same type loco!
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Exactly. I have several N gauge SD35's that are all atlas with factory installed DCC. They all run different speeds at the same settings. Turns out there are 3 different motors that Atlas had available. I'm now running HO and consist NCE, Digitrax, Soundtraxx, QSI, and BLI paragon 2 loco's. MRC isn't in my roster anymore but does serve as a great paperweight.
Indeed, take 2 identical locomotives, slap 2 identical decoders in them, and there is no guarantee that they will run the same without individual adjustment. I also have a total mix of decoders. I hardly have any Digitrax, being more partial to the low cost NCE for day to day basic stuff (I like the 4 functions and the price of the D13SR and TCS for more advanced models (I really like the TCS BEMF), plus an array of sound decoders from all the main players, all running just fine under Zephyr control.
Simon Modelling CB&Q and Wabash See my slowly evolving layout on my picturetrail site http://www.picturetrail.com/simontrains and our videos at http://www.youtube.com/user/MrCrispybake?feature=mhum
Hamltnblue...It's best to match everything to the slowest loco since the slower loco's cant match to anything faster...
I watched a video tonight on speed matching with JMRI so I've got a basic idea of what needs to be done but I have one more question. Should I get another throttle that has a speed readout like a DT402 so I can actually see the speeds of the two locos I'm trying to match or do most of you just eyeball the speed differences based on whether the second loco is gaining on or falling behind the lead unit?
Thanks again, John
If you mean speed mathign so they all start at the same time, you have to match to your FASTEST loco. Get that one to run as slow as it can reliably and then match the rest to it. If a particular loco can only go so slow due to the motor type and/or gearing, you can't make it run any slower - you can however get slower ones to run faster.
John,
As you have found - Not all decoders/engines give the same results. Speed matching can be very simple. Here is the basics:
The result will be a basic speed table that should work. You can now adjust acceleration/deceleration/etc to 'fine tune' you engine. With HO, moving 1 actual foot in 1 actual second results in about 60 scale mph. I have 90' of track on my mainline(1.5 scale miles), so setting the initial engine to 70 mph was pretty easy. All other engines are 'matched' to that known engine. I run them a few inches apart to do any fine tuning so they match. If you watch the prototype, you will see them 'fight' a little bit as well - You do not need to be exact here.
Jim
Modeling BNSF and Milwaukee Road in SW Wisconsin
JS_IN_KY Should I get another throttle that has a speed readout like a DT402 so I can actually see the speeds of the two locos I'm trying to match or do most of you just eyeball the speed differences based on whether the second loco is gaining on or falling behind the lead unit?
I find it easier to use a throttle that gives a visual readout of the throttle setting such as the DT 402. By the way, you can also use the throttle that is included in the JMRI software.
Joe
Thanks for the info everyone. My closest hobby store is 100 miles one way so I have to order 99% of my stuff. I was getting ready to order some stuff today and was hoping to get everything I needed for the time being to get set up well for the programming. It sounds like for the time being at least I can get by with the Zephyr and hold off a little bit on the DT 402. I was all set to try JMRI today but I didn't realize I'd need the loconet cable to go between that and my Zephyr (I thought it was included from what the dealer told me I purchased from) so I'm going to have to wait until I can get to a store to by the ends and some cable before I can get started.
I have two atlas gp-38 that run at the same speed and can be MU'ed no problem but I have an Athearn Dash 8 that at some settings runs faster and some settings runs slower than my Geeps so after some research I found this great article on how to speed match
http://www.ncmrc.org/howto/Speed_Matching_DCC.pdf
Eric, Thanks for posting the link to that article, it has some good information in it. Are you using the Accutrack they recommend in the article?
I dont have one but I do plan on getting one as my fleet grows.. I have not matched my Dash 9 to the Geeps yet but I will try a measured piece of track and a stop watch and see how that goes. I suspect having a train "radar gun" would make it go alot quicker.
JS_IN_KY Thanks for the info everyone. My closest hobby store is 100 miles one way so I have to order 99% of my stuff. I was getting ready to order some stuff today and was hoping to get everything I needed for the time being to get set up well for the programming. It sounds like for the time being at least I can get by with the Zephyr and hold off a little bit on the DT 402. I was all set to try JMRI today but I didn't realize I'd need the loconet cable to go between that and my Zephyr (I thought it was included from what the dealer told me I purchased from) so I'm going to have to wait until I can get to a store to by the ends and some cable before I can get started. John
I highly recommand the Digitrax PR3 as an interface between your computer and the Zephyr. It can be use both as an independant programming unit or connected to Loconet.
Is there any difference in the throttle readout displays between the DT400 and the DT402 models?
Eric
I'm kinda likin this stuff
rrinker If you mean speed mathign so they all start at the same time, you have to match to your FASTEST loco. Get that one to run as slow as it can reliably and then match the rest to it. If a particular loco can only go so slow due to the motor type and/or gearing, you can't make it run any slower - you can however get slower ones to run faster. --Randy
How do you match a loco that has a max speed of 60smph to a loco that has a max of 75? The slowest will always dictate because it simply go any faster but the maximum of the faster loco's can be scaled down. I usually only speed match loco's that will run together. I don't bother matching steamers for instance with the diesels.
rrinker If you mean speed mathign so they all start at the same time, you have to match to your FASTEST loco...
If you mean speed mathign so they all start at the same time, you have to match to your FASTEST loco...
HamltnblueHow do you match a loco that has a max speed of 60smph to a loco that has a max of 75? The slowest will always dictate because it simply go any faster but the maximum of the faster loco's can be scaled down..
What Randy was talking about is getting locos to START together. For example, if you have one loco that has a minimum speed of 1 mph and another that has a minimum speed of 3 mph and you want them to start together, you will have to bump up the minimum speed of the slower loco.
misterconsister Is there any difference in the throttle readout displays between the DT400 and the DT402 models? Eric
JS_IN_KY I was all set to try JMRI today but I didn't realize I'd need the loconet cable to go between that and my Zephyr (I thought it was included from what the dealer told me I purchased from) so I'm going to have to wait until I can get to a store to by the ends and some cable before I can get started.
Do you have an interface(Locobuffer, PR3) for between the Zephyr and the PC? If not, then you'll need more than just a cable. If you don't have an interface, and you have a PC with a serial port, and you are handy with a soldering, one option for a PC interface is the circcuit at the bottom of this page.
CSX Robert JS_IN_KY I was all set to try JMRI today but I didn't realize I'd need the loconet cable to go between that and my Zephyr (I thought it was included from what the dealer told me I purchased from) so I'm going to have to wait until I can get to a store to by the ends and some cable before I can get started. Do you have an interface(Locobuffer, PR3) for between the Zephyr and the PC? If not, then you'll need more than just a cable. If you don't have an interface, and you have a PC with a serial port, and you are handy with a soldering, one option for a PC interface is the circcuit at the bottom of this page.
Yes I purchased a PR3 at the same time as the Zephyr. I got the cable and connectors at Lowes last night to make a loconet cable to run between them. I haven't had time to work on it yet but I'm hoping at some point this weekend to get it going. I also ordered a DT402 throttle yesterday so once I get it all set up I should be ready to go. Now I just need to learn how to use all of it.