Another thought or two:
A few years back I considered using DCC and did quite a bit of research. My research lead me to a point were if I had gone DCC, it would have been with EasyDCC by CVP products.
www.cvpusa.com
Their wireless throttle is simple and to the point and they have decades of experiance in command control even before DCC.
Sheldon
Mudekk p.s. Per Aristo Craft's online catalog, Train Engineer only works with HO scale and larger, but I sent them an inquiry about N scale compatability, because inquiring minds want to know. (sorry about the run on sentence)
p.s. Per Aristo Craft's online catalog, Train Engineer only works with HO scale and larger, but I sent them an inquiry about N scale compatability, because inquiring minds want to know.
(sorry about the run on sentence)
The Train Engineer does not come with a power supply. The power/voltage requirements of N and HO are basicly the same. By choosing the correct power supply and fusing it properly, the Train Engineer wil work fine with N scale. Several large N scale clubs and modular groups have used them for more than a decade now - a web search may find some of the info, I do not have it right at hand but could dig it up for you.
Reveres loops can be wired to eliminate the famous "master toggle reverse switch" and be made very much automatic. I will explain or give references if you are interested.
Signaling can be simplified to look prototypical but be easier to wire and more user friendly to operators. Are you familiar with "interlocking signaling"? These signals are actually more important on a model railroad than "block signals". By modeling the interlocking signals "first" and only filling in with a few block signals you can provide great visual effects, useful info to your operators, while still keeping operations moving and "casual". It is atually great for cab or walk around operation because a green signal confirms that routes are set correctly.
Basic DCC will be a good choice if you are willing to get into the decoder thing or pay to have it done, no question about it.
But, for the goals you have discribed a slightly advanced DC system could provide the operation you desire without installing decoders. Many of your concerns about DC can be made more user friendly than you realize. I don't use block toggles at all on my DC system.
MudekkAll this wiring & electronics is a necessary evil to me.
All this wiring & electronics is a necessary evil to me.
Your desires probably favor NCE over Digitraxx. NCE is more menu driven; Digitraxx is perhaps a little bit faster once you know what you want to do because it avoids some of the menus.
I have not experienced N scale sound, but I imagine that it's not very impressive compared to the real deal, so I'll just stick to county music.
In DCC, sound is a result of the decoder and speaker installation. The DCC control system can handle sound anytime you choose to install it in the locomotives (or not).
I do have two reversing loops, and I know from experience the frustration of failing to flip the switch for your route. It's a lot more frustrating to me than lining a switch the wrong way (the latter is real world). For the same reason, I hate missing a block toggle for a dc power district.
Given your other preferences, you will want to use automatic reversers for your reversing loop. No more worrying about lining toggles correctly.
Everything being said, I'm still leaning towards DCC (very basic), although decoder installation has me a little nervous. I've alrady got a roster of power to be upgraded; not as if I'm going out to buy all new power. Now, i figure it can't be too tough because "everyone" is using DCC, now, so I guess it's just part of the necessary evil.
Ease of decoder installation, particularly in N, is going to vary with the age of the locomotive. Some pre-DCC N locomotives will require milling of the frame and/or weight to get a decoder in (in addition to wiring the decoder). Many newer "DCC-ready" locomotives have a plug into which the decoder plugs. Depending on your experience and comfort with taking locomotives apart and re-assembling them, you may want to consider hiring out the decoder installations - at least in the more difficult situations.
One other point - if you have never tuned or lubricated your locomotives, doing so during decoder installation would be ideal.
Finally, I talked to a local vendor. He suggested Digitrax's Zephyr or NCE's Power Cab. I'm not sure how the Zephyr does me any good w/ a stationary cab when my layout requires something more mobile (he said to buy a tethered/wireless throttle, too). The PowerCab sounds more mobile out of the box, but I didn't think its 2amps was enough power for 8 n scale locos at 0.3 amps each (is my math right?).
Are you running all 8 locomotives at the same time? If the answer is yes, you will want more power when you get up to running that many simultaneously. NCE has their Super Booster, which would provide the extra power, and allow you to disconnect you Power Cab and plug in somewhere else without shutting down the layout. The later revision of the Super Booster fixes an issue with automatic reversers - which would be critical to you.
On the Digitraxx side, adding a walk-around throttle is going to be in the same ballpark cost-wise as adding the Super Booster to the NCE.
Anyway, I'm pretty sure DCC is the way for me. But, the whole "pick a system approach" makes it feel like such a big decision, where as DC seems less overwhelming, a more generic & simple purchasing approach, if that makes any sense.
Actually, the more pre-planning and knowledge of your desired end-state, the fewer unnecessary $$ and time, regardless of DC or Digitraxx DCC or NCE DCC or MRC DCC. Planning your DCC upgrade path to your desired end state (same as you detailed for your layout) will allow you to spread the cost as your layout progresses with less $$ lost to dead ends.
DCC does require a larger initial purchase than DC - and that always makes us nervous. And you are right, there is not as much manufacturer lock-in with DC. But for your stated preferences and operating styles and dislike of getting into the nitty gritty of electronics, the out-of-the-box operating flexibility of DCC would lead me to recommend that path for you.
Others with more extensive knowledge of particular DCC systems can (and will :-)) correct any errors I have made.
hope this helps
Fred W
I am still here; appreciate all the input (objective and otherwise).
My real goal is to run trains from the cab. My priorities are:
1. Lay the main line and apply power, so i can start running trains.
2. Lay sidings & industries, so trains have more places to go.
3. Basic scenery.
4. Move wife's laundry room from basement to upstairs, so i can add staging.
Dispatcher panel and automatic train stop aren't for me either. I don't see my operations being that numerous nor complicated, plus I'd rather be in the cab.
As for block signals, they'd be neat, but I want to run long 40-60 car trains which could lead to a lot of "approach" and less favorable indications. Those aren't any fun to run on (and even less fun is getting caught going by that "stop").
Have a good weekend.
A few random thoughts and comments:
I also use the Aristo Train Engineer radio DC throttles and am very happy with them. They provide excellent speed control, have great range, and are very easy to use.
John, regarding sound and DC or DCC - so far at least, there are a very limited number of sound equiped locos that perform well or are easily controlled (both from a motion and sound standpoint) on DC throttles. You may be willing to limit your locomotive choices in this restrictive way, most people are not. So on this point David and I agree, if you like sound you need DCC.
AND, no dual mode DCC decoder, sound or not, that I have tested yet, works well on the pulse width output my Aristo Craft Train Engineer throttles. So for me decoders must go if they come in the loco.
Personally, I have no use for sound in scales as small as HO or N. Even the best of them, including MTH, sound like the nine transistor radio I had as a child. I love it in larger scales, I have explained my views on that many times - but not today.
For me, signaling and CTC is more important than sound or any of the other features DCC has over DC. So I built a signaling system and a one button turnout route control that just happens to have an advanced walk around cab control system built in. This combined with the Aristo Craft Train Engineer throttles provides EVERYTHING my operating concept requires.
In my case, my control system is not inexpensive or simple, but its cost is less than all the same signaling and turnout route control features would cost if I used DCC, again, based on my layout size, locomotive fleet size, number of wireless throttles needed, etc.
DCC and DC can be as simple or as complex as you need/want. I am a big believer in understanding what is out there, what can be done and most importantly, what YOU want your trains to do?
What do YOU want your trains to do? It's not about what I think they should do, or what Randy or David think they should do - what do you want them to do? If your not sure and your starting from scratch, you can save your money until you know (stay with basic DC while you learn), or you can dive into DCC knowing it will do the most, whether you need it or not (but full features mean more cost and more to learn).
Well planned DC advanced cab control systems (like mine or Chuck's) can provide easy, effective operation. But they do require planning and an understanding of what you want to happen - they are not "just figure it out as you go". If you are a "figure it out as go" kind of person, I strongly recommend DCC.
Advanced DC cab control can be a very technical subject. If you are not into wiring or electronics, in may seem overwhelming, but than again so may DCC.
Here are the core features of my DC advanced walk around cab control:
Wireless radio throttles with only 5 large easy to use buttons to control the train.
Walk around and central "dispatch" panel control of the same layout.
Simple control panels with just a few lighted pushbuttons to operate. Turnout positions direct power in many cases, making the number of "cab assignments" minimal.
Built in signaling and CTC dispatching - these features can be made full blown prototypical or "simplified" depending on your needs/wants.
Built in, no cost, collision avoidance.
Loco slow speed equal to DCC, smooth control, momentum effects if desired, simple effective constant lighting.
Plenty of power, each throttle has its own power supply. My eight throttles each have 5 amps.
So, DC or DCC, decide first what you want the trains to do, what features you need/want, how much you want to spend, how willing you are to learn - than ask more question, learn about both - make your own choice.
If the OP, or anyone is interested in learning more about MZL control or my expanded version of it, feel free to ask, I'll tell you more.
I wonder where this idea that you must mess around with configuration variables to be able to use DCC comes from? The only thing you really NEED to change is the address. All the other stuff, momentum, fancy lighting, speed curves, etc. is all icing on the cake and you absolutely positively NEVER have to touch that stuff if you don't want to. You don;t even really have to change the address although that will get old real quick as you will be limited to running one loco at a time since they will all be address 3. So change the address and be off and runnning, stop messing with CVs. All the popular DCC systems make changing the address pretty simple, too.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Simply stated: anyone I've ever seen actually use DCC has spent more time playing with configuration variables and just getting the darn stuff to run, such that nothing about the exercise was worthwhile to me. Nothing about DCC has ever seemed like "fun" to me. I prefer to keep my computer programming exercises at work.
I've seen people leave model railroad open houses in disgust because the railroad was not running.
Say what you want regarding DCS, you are certainly entitled to your opinion, but at least it is extremely simple to operate. And it can actually be more cost effective--depending upon one's preferences in roads and motive power.
So far as smoke is concerned--I have children, and they like it, period.
John
It would be infinitely preferrable if the OP were provided with merely factual statements instead of value judgements and opinions, which we are in danger of using to flood his quest for useful information.
Let's keep the discussion civil and cool, and not resort to emotionally laden words like 'silly' and others that tend to draw participants into an unwanted frenzy...or to drive them away.
Thanks.
-Crandell
davidmbedard OK Guys......listen up. It has a place for those who swear by it..... reversing loops.....which are automatic with a reversing loop controller once you want to get away from the one-train on the layout thing. Once you go with more than one .... DCC is the current all-bells-and-whistles system .....to accommodate more locos if necessary. ..... If you have friends coming over..... Both systems require basic BUS LINE wiring... Anyways..... if you want to have a system that is current. P.S... If you want to run sound.... David B
OK Guys......listen up.
It has a place for those who swear by it.....
reversing loops.....which are automatic with a reversing loop controller
once you want to get away from the one-train on the layout thing. Once you go with more than one .... DCC is the current all-bells-and-whistles system .....to accommodate more locos if necessary.
..... If you have friends coming over.....
Both systems require basic BUS LINE wiring...
Anyways..... if you want to have a system that is current.
P.S... If you want to run sound....
David B
Mudekk (if you're still around),
Please note the assumptions made in the comment above and analyze your situation accordingly:
You may not want to swear by anything. You may just want to find the best technology that fits your needs.
You may not have any reason to turn an entire train to head back on the same track, through the same scene it just passed through.
You may not get away from the one (two or three) train thing (operating at the same time) anytime soon.
You might not care to have friends (that care about MRRing) over.
You might not care if there are different reasons why both systems require bus line wiring.
You might not care about what system is more current, but rather, care more about what system best fits your MRRing intentions.
I'm not bashing DCC because I run DC, I'm just trying to be helpful. There are a lot of "DCC or DC" threads. You seemed to explain a situation that is somewhat unique in that you have lots of space relative to the number of trains you want to run and the typical DCC sales pitches may not be relevant for your situation, so I responded.
- Douglas
davidmbedard sound with DC just sucks....period.
sound with DC just sucks....period.
Sorry, wrong here.
Paragon2 Y6B with back emf dual mode decoder, sound, and smoke.
Try one. I'm not even a BLI fan, but the beast just plain works--as advertised.
Also one does not have to do all sorts of additional wiring to add throttles for multiple train DC operation--that to me would indeed be ridiculous. Another solution, potentially cheaper than DCC depending on how many units you need for multiple trains, is MTH's DCS--all their DC/DCS engines are factory speed matched anyway, and you can still operate the DCS Controller to run the other regular DC engines (though not at the same time as any DCS ones)--I'm therefore not tied to an "all MTH" roster.
Mudekk I appreciate everyone's 2 cents. I'm leaning towards DCC. I need a walkaround system w/ 2 cabs for my layout, and the more I think about doing that in DC, the more expensive & work that appears to be. And, as for upgrading my 40 dc locomotives, well, someone(s) has pointed out that they don't all have to be converted right away, and they're right. Plus, if I'd started in DCC i never would have questioned the cost of the decoders, so i don't know why i'm letting that expense bother me now (and, this might motivate me to get rid of some of the excess.) Now, i just gotta pick a system.
I appreciate everyone's 2 cents.
I'm leaning towards DCC. I need a walkaround system w/ 2 cabs for my layout, and the more I think about doing that in DC, the more expensive & work that appears to be. And, as for upgrading my 40 dc locomotives, well, someone(s) has pointed out that they don't all have to be converted right away, and they're right. Plus, if I'd started in DCC i never would have questioned the cost of the decoders, so i don't know why i'm letting that expense bother me now (and, this might motivate me to get rid of some of the excess.)
Now, i just gotta pick a system.
Mudekk,
Before you plunk down good money on something, research the AristoCraft Crest Train Engineer control system. Its a wireless (not walkaround) DC control system. No tethered cables and plug ins. (compare prices with wireless DCC)
It sounds like you have a lot of space, with relatively few trains, so it sounds like that system may fit your needs very well. It is not that popular because it is essentially designed for large G scale outdoor trains, and because I think many folks just don't know that much about it. But the system is advertised to work with all scales I believe. I use it for my HO scale layout with no modifications to the system. Right out of the box its ready.
Don't know which system would be best, but research the Crest to at least eliminate all of your options before you spend good money.
JonMN However for someone just starting a new layout I think the clear choice would have to be DCC. Jon
However for someone just starting a new layout I think the clear choice would have to be DCC.
Jon
T'ain't necessarily so. Your statement may have been true for you. And it probably is true for the OP, given his statements about not wanting to learn enough electrical theory to wire a DC layout. But the choice isn't so clear in my case, nor is necessarily clear for others. The recommended choice is going to depend on other factors besides whether or not I have a bunch of legacy DC equipment.
I can easily build a good DC system from scratch with 2 walkaround throttles (OP's requirement) for substantially less than the $270 plus decoders that you quote using a Zephyr as a base. Decent DC walk-around throttles are available pre-built for $40, and you can build them for less. Add $15 each for power supplies, and another $20 worth of block toggles, and I'm done with the differences for a room size layout. Of course, I'm assuming that I take maximum advantage of techniques to reduce the number of block toggles to a reasonable number. So if money is a deciding issue regardless of whether I have legacy DC equipment, and I only need 2 throttles, then DC might well be the better choice.
If I'm a lone wolf operator, and don't have other operators joining me, DC might be a better choice.
If my multiple trains operate in well separated areas of the layout or on independent routes, DC might be a better choice.
If I have the ability and enjoy building my own electronics instead of buying them off the shelf, DC might be the better choice. (I build my own computers, as well as my own throttles just because I prefer to do it myself.)
My point is that one needs to look at the whole picture before categorically stating DC or DCC is the better choice.
my thoughts, your choices
IMHO, the only reason to not get DCC would be if you already have a complete DC system already installed. I bought the Digitrax Zepher to get started for $150 and am able to run one DC loco at a time WITH DCC locos on track. You can get a UT4 IR throttle (wireless) for $100 or a tethered UT4 for $60. Uprgrading DCC for more power and throttles is as easy as making the purchase and plugging in. Someone had mentioned that DCC is a pain because of feeder wires. Are those more difficult then running wires for DC blocks?
Again, I understand that some may have many years of hard labor and equipment purchased to get there DC layout to where it is and would be hard to justify the expense to change everything out just to get a few additional features. However for someone just starting a new layout I think the clear choice would have to be DCC.
wm3798 So, my experience demonstrates that it isn't more economical to use DC (at least not always), and that if you're comparing operational apples to apples, DCC wins every time. The more you want your layout to do, the more complex DC becomes. Conversely, the more you want out of DCC, the more you discover it can do with what you already have...Lee
So, my experience demonstrates that it isn't more economical to use DC (at least not always), and that if you're comparing operational apples to apples, DCC wins every time. The more you want your layout to do, the more complex DC becomes. Conversely, the more you want out of DCC, the more you discover it can do with what you already have...
Lee
If you read my first post in the thread, you'd see I agree with most of your points. Whether DCC is the simpler choice or not depends on a few key factors - complexity of the layout; number of simultaneous operators/trains, and what you already have on hand and are familiar with. DCC does not win every time, but it is the simpler choice in the more complex situations, especially if starting from scratch for both systems. And if sound is wanted, DCC is the winner hands down.
I was responding to a post just before mine that accused folks like me who have decided for whatever reasons to stay with DC of being dinosaurs. And I guess I am. Even though I work in tech, I can't be bothered with a smart phone. I'd much rather have a simple cell phone, and a separate PDA (remember those?) with a detachable or attached usable physical keyboard. I see texting and social networking as wastes of time, and used as an excuse for bad manners and failure to work at real relationships. I'd much rather converse with somebody in person, or at least in real voice, than text or similar.
If I didn't have better (in my mind) purposes for the money DCC would cost me, I'd probably convert just for the tech thrill.
but that's the dinosaur in me
Fwright,
You're not wrong in your thinking. You're in a comfort zone with the system you've grown accustomed to, and that's cool.
However....
I opted for DCC when I started building my layout for numerous reasons. First, I had tried it at my club, and it was love at first sight. All of the control functions are in the palm of your hand, including programming the decoders, making and breaking up consists, and running your train. On my MRC system, I can have up to 25 addresses (individual locomotives or consists) at my disposal without ever having to throw a switch on a control panel.
As for cost, if you include walk around throttles, constant lighting for headlights and passenger cars, multiple train control and accessory control in your DC cost estimate, the two really aren't that far apart. To get the three Control Masters I would need to do basically what my layout does (a main line freight, a local working the mill, and a yard switcher) would have cost me around $600, plus the wiring, plus the throttle jacks, plus the toggle switches and control panels... I paid $200 for my Prodigy Advance, and another $100 for two extra throttles. I can use 8-pin phone jacks from Radio Shack for throttle jacks, and between the three throttles, I can operate up to 75 locomotives individually AT ONE TIME.
Decoders? Yes. They cost money. I got good at installing them, now I do that for others, so decoders pay for themselves now.
Now, my layout is pretty complex operationally. There's branch lines and junctions and big yards and industrial areas. But it all runs on one black wire, and one white wire. Yes, there are lots of drops, but they're about 6" long, and they don't need to be strung to a control panel.
Route of the Alpha Jets www.wmrywesternlines.net
galaxy Some of us will hold onto the old dinasour ways, others will move along wuickly, and some. like me will hang back and get the smart phone when no other basic cell phone is available. BAck to subject.... I like few wires to my tracks and ability to run my locos and trains as I see fit in any direction, at the same time, or even on the same track.
Some of us will hold onto the old dinasour ways, others will move along wuickly, and some. like me will hang back and get the smart phone when no other basic cell phone is available.
BAck to subject.... I like few wires to my tracks and ability to run my locos and trains as I see fit in any direction, at the same time, or even on the same track.
I guess the intent was to goad the dinosaurs.
I understand DC wiring very well. I have DC power packs and throttles I am satisfied with. I normally operate one train at a time, sequentially, on a layout that someday could accommodate a maximum of 3 operators on 2 separate track systems. I use walk-around control. Aisle limitations prevent trains from being in close proximity on the same track at the same time as long as the operator is staying with his train. So DC is quite feasible, and not that complex for my situation.
I'm not sure a satisfactory sound installation could be made in my tiny 19th Century HO and HOn3 models. If it could, I'm not sure I can afford the loss in weight and tractive effort resulting from a sound installation due to my steep grades. But I would like to have sound some day if it becomes doable.
And finally, at this point, it would take $500+ worth of DCC equipment to duplicate the functionality I already have in DC (starter set with throttle, 2 walk-around throttles, computer interface, 7 decoders, throtte bus and jacks). At present, I have better plans for the $500. If money was not as much of a constraint as it is, I would probably make the jump to DCC for the fun of experimenting with it.
Why DCC?
Why not DCC?
Why Smart {expensive} Smart phone?
well soon Why not smart phone?
Modern times and the future will bring us many things new and getting used to.
-G .
Just my thoughts, ideas, opinions and experiences. Others may vary.
HO and N Scale.
After long and careful thought, they have convinced me. I have come to the conclusion that they are right. The aliens did it.
MudekkPlus, no hassle upgrading my 50 locomotives.
This may be the key factor here. If these are all good, running locomotives, then converting to DCC would be very expensive and time-consuming for you.
Since you've got a relatively large layout, you can run with reasonably-sized blocks, too. Even as a die-hard DCC guy, I don't think you should go with DCC at this point.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
This is not an either-or question. It is entirely possible to wire a layout for one-operator DC and upgrade to DCC later. If you wire originally for DCC, you're still going to need all those section breaks if you ever decide to install a signalling or detection system.
If I was starting from a bare workbench in an empty room I would probably go DC to begin with, then switch to DCC when and if its (alleged) advantages outweigh its initial cost.
As it happens, I am NOT starting from a bare workbench. A couple of years ago I moved a couple of pickup loads of rolling stock and layout-related miscellaneous into my newly-purchased house - the one 'end of the railroad' module came in the same truck as the furniture. For me, DCC would have been a large expense (50-odd locomotives and powered MU cars) for no perceived gain, so I'm still building and operating analog DC, MZL system. What I'm doing works - FOR ME. I don't suggest that anyone (other than Sheldon) should follow the same course, and I am NOT open to suggestions that I convert to DCC.
Just my . Other opinions are sure to differ.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
I do trains on a budget--and quite simply put, DCC is a feature I don't need, don't want, and can't afford. I view it as totally unnecessary for any layout I'd ever want to have.
Instead, I'm pleased to have a handful of DC-only articulated steamers. I will be able to run very long trains on my flat, less than 0.5% grade mainline, without any helpers at all.
I have no need for multiple unit operation, and all my turnouts are power routing.
For some folks DCC is just an unneeded expense.
Mudekk I'm building an N scale layout in my basement. I'm not sure if I should go DC or DCC. DCC sounds like it would be much better for operating purposes, especially in the yard. But it also sounds like a whole hobby unto itself. Not to mention, I'm not super handy, so installing decoders in locomotives sounds a little intimidating....Plus, I don't foresee (but never say never), using it for anything more than simple train control (no signal sys., sound, detectors, etc.). So is it really worth it? Is the learning curve as big as i'm making it?
I'm building an N scale layout in my basement. I'm not sure if I should go DC or DCC.
DCC sounds like it would be much better for operating purposes, especially in the yard. But it also sounds like a whole hobby unto itself. Not to mention, I'm not super handy, so installing decoders in locomotives sounds a little intimidating....Plus, I don't foresee (but never say never), using it for anything more than simple train control (no signal sys., sound, detectors, etc.). So is it really worth it? Is the learning curve as big as i'm making it?
IMHO, there are 4 key parameters that would throw the decison one way or the other:
DC grows in complexity and/or pre-planning with the number of operators and locomotives being used simultaneously. The other factor affecting complexity of DC is whether trains are widely separated on the layout or operating in close proximity on shared trackage.
DCC complexity does not vary nearly as much - it tends to stay at one level until the sum of requirements or features drive to another level such as wireless.
If you can provide planned operations scenarios and/or a track plan, as well as the extend of DC equipment and knowledge, we might be able to provide you more specific advice.
I have a DC n scale layout which i have run for years by myself. recently i have tried operating with 2 people , just did not work.. I was lucky , my son got me a MRC wireless Prodigy for my birthday as i was looking at building a operating type HO layout. Not knowing anything about this new fangled dcc , i headed down to Roys , my LHS. he spent abut 45 minutes going over the stuff , and i walked away with a Athern RS3 to test with my new system .. No sound , it sounds way to tinny for my ears, so its a pretty basic setup. Took it home and just started fooling around and BINGO , the mystery is gone. I plan on reading the DCC column in MR from the 1st one on, now that i need it..
While i am sure there is more to this than what i have done with mine , once you get a basic understanding the rest will fall in place , just do one step at a time,
Well, to give you some more input as to my situation . . . the layout is single main and runs along all 4 walls of my basement and includes a penninsula, totals about 110' of linear track. There is a reversing loop. Mostly a single operator, running two trains.
I'm thinking dc walkaround throttles w/ memory would be sufficient for a few hundred dollars. Might be a little less convenient to operate, but quite a bit cheaper than dcc and a much smaller learning curve. Plus, no hassle upgrading my 50 locomotives.
DCC does offer the ease of controlling multiple trains w/ one throttle from any location in the room, right? I definitely see the pros of that. But, if my math is right, that's maybe $600 or more for wireless dcc & power & autoreversing, right? Not to mention decoders.
Just having a tough time justifying that kind of green.
For me, the big advantage of DCC is the ability to run multiple locomotives anywhere on your layout without having to worry about where blocks begin and end. For a large layout, DC blocking isn't such an issue, but on a small layout you will probably have very few blocks, and that greatly restricts your options when running more than one train.
The one draw back of DCC is having to run feeders but I have about 150 feet of track and I was dreading the adding feeders but when I was trying out my new DCC system (Digitrax Super Empire Builder) / programing my trains, I found it did run a couple engines off one connection with a few slow spots.. so the plus is you can play out the box and add feeders a long and long, like I have been, doing a section every couple of days. If you are playing fresh track then doing feeders as you go will be a lot easier than after the track is down
I'd agree with the other posters - DCC isn't harder than DC, it's easier, at the basic level at least. sure you can get into whodingeys and diodes and what not (funny), but if that's not your thing, you can just operate trains. Installation, as you mentioned, raises the bar, though, especially in N Scale.
Mudekk I'm building an N scale layout in my basement. I'm not sure if I should go DC or DCC. DCC sounds like it would be much better for operating purposes, especially in the yard. But it also sounds like a whole hobby unto itself. Not to mention, I'm not super handy, so installing decoders in locomotives sounds a little intimidating. And, diodes and amps and whoodingeys, i don't have the foggiest. Plus, I don't foresee (but never say never), using it for anything more than simple train control (no signal sys., sound, detectors, etc.). So is it really worth it? Is the learning curveas big as i'm making it?
DCC sounds like it would be much better for operating purposes, especially in the yard. But it also sounds like a whole hobby unto itself. Not to mention, I'm not super handy, so installing decoders in locomotives sounds a little intimidating. And, diodes and amps and whoodingeys, i don't have the foggiest. Plus, I don't foresee (but never say never), using it for anything more than simple train control (no signal sys., sound, detectors, etc.). So is it really worth it? Is the learning curveas big as i'm making it?
It's kind of the other way around - operating on DC requires much more electrical skill than DCC. If you want to run two engines together on a train, if they don't run at the same speed with DC you have to add resistors to the fast one to try to slow it down. With DCC, it's a series of simple adjustments done thru your command station.
In DC if you want to run two trains separately, you have to divide the layout into a series of power blocks, each controlled by a DPDT switch and a separate power pack. If you stray into a block not controlled by 'your' power pack, you lose control of it or it stops. In DCC, you can have several engines on the same track and move each one separately without affecting the other ones. Pretty nice when moving engines around an engine service facility or yard.
Many engines now come with decoders installed, some with sound decoders - even in N scale!! For many other engines it's either a "plug and play" installation (pull out the dummy plug and plug in the decoder) or a "drop-in" (remove the light board, and replace it with a decoder shaped like the light board and using the same connections).
If you can get a computer, go online, and register for this forum, you have more than enough skill to operate a DCC layout.