Friend of mine has a Tsunami decoder for a galloping goose. It has a nice startup sequence which initiates when the goose is put on the rails. However, the instructions which come with the decoder don't tell you how to shut down the engine so that you can do a manual restart. I'm not talking about the mute function key.
Looking at the on-line Tsunami manual, I found that they tell you to use the DCC handset's emergency stop button to initiate the engine shutdown (press the emergency stop button once). This seems problematical (read "stupid") to me, especially since we have an NCE system where if the stuttering finger hits emergency stop 3 times the railroad grinds to a halt.
So, my question is: Is there a way to reprogram the decoder so that the shutdown feature gets moved from emergency stop to one of the unused function keys?
Thanks
I would say no because you would effectively be mapping ES to another button...not changing its digital signature, which is what the decoder uses for the effect you want. It's the decoder, not the button that elicits the response you want. The decoder is programmed to behave to a coded message. It doesn't care from which button you send it.
So, if you remap, you replace. The button normally used for ES would not be ES any longer.
At least, that is what it seems to me.
-Crandell
maxmanLooking at the on-line Tsunami manual, I found that they tell you to use the DCC handset's emergency stop button to initiate the engine shutdown (press the emergency stop button once).
I've got a Tsunami in a GP-9. One day, I accidentally got the engine to "shut down," but I'd done it by fat-fingering and couldn't figure out what I had done. The manual, as you've pointed out, is particularly unhelpful.
I've got a Lenz System 100 "Dispatcher" throttle. When the manual says the "Emergency Stop" button, it does NOT mean the system stop button, but rather the engine stop button. On the Lenz system, I've got a button which will either set the engine speed to zero if it's running, or reverse direction if the speed is already at zero.
So, to bring the engine to a stop and then go through shut-down, I bring the speed down to zero and wait for the engine to come to a stop. Then, I've found it works best if I increment the speed by 1, and then press that Engine Stop button twice.
The Tsunami shutdown, by the way, does not work the same as a QSI decoder shutdown. On my QSI engines, once I go through shutdown the engine stays shut down until I press the key for startup. On the Tsunami, the engine will come back to life after a system power down, either for a short or when I shut things down for the night.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
MisterBeasleyI've got a Lenz System 100 "Dispatcher" throttle. When the manual says the "Emergency Stop" button, it does NOT mean the system stop button, but rather the engine stop button. On the Lenz system, I've got a button which will either set the engine speed to zero if it's running, or reverse direction if the speed is already at zero.
Mr. B: To the best of my knowledge the NCE system does not have an engine stop button. There is only an emergency stop button that gets pushed 3 times to bring everything to a halt. To quote from the Tsunami Diesel Users Guide:
"Start the Prime Mover
To start the diesel engine, simply increase the throttle to speed step 1. The engine will crank over several times and settle into a nice idle. On a few command stations, such as the NCE Power Cab, the Tsunami decoder may skip the startup sequence and immediately play the idle sound. If this happens, press emergency stop first, then increase the throttle and you
Although this references the Power Cab, the Pro Cab handset is identical. I would think that there should be some way to task one of the function keys to have the engine motor shut down. Especially so since the Goose decoder has several unutilized function keys. Otherwise I consider this a design flaw of the "what was that person thinking when he came up with that idea" variety. With the QSI decoder, you can have the shutdown sequence initiated by double pressing one of the function keys. Even my almost universally disliked and hated MRC decoder doesn't use the emergency stop nonsense.
I just picked up my first Tsunami with Baldwin sound and I am wondering the same thing. Still looking through the manual. All I can do right now is the quiet function.
I have two LokSound decoders with Baldwin sound and those are configured to hit funtion 8 for engine start up or shut down.
Hopefully, the Tsunami can do the same. I am going to look around the Yahoo SoundTraxx Group and see what I can find.
Rich
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.
My Atlas and proto locos with sound, double clicking 9 puts the loco in idle mode, Double click 9 again puts it in disconnect mode, and finally double clicking 9 again shuts it down. To initiate the start up sequence double click 6. Pressing 8 once is to mute the sound. I only have one Tsunami loco and it is a steamer and I haven't tried a shut down sequence with it.
retsignalmtr I only have one Tsunami loco and it is a steamer and I haven't tried a shut down sequence with it.
I only have one Tsunami loco and it is a steamer and I haven't tried a shut down sequence with it.
Steam engines cannot be shut down like a diesel -- the only shut down for a steam engine was to let the fire go out. Not the same thing as shutting down a motor at all.
The following information is quoted from the Tsunami Diesel User's Guide:
Diesel Engine Control
Tsunami provides two CVs for setting up the diesel engine sound effect:
CV116 Engine ControlCV 131 Exhaust Volume
Setting CV 116 between 1 and 15 enablesAutomatic Engine Notching Mode. Automatic notching causes the engine RPMs to change in proportion to the throttle setting. Pressing Emergency Stop will cause the engine to shut down.
I use the NCE Power Cab and the E Stop does do a complete prime mover shut down.
The only way to restart the prime mover is to go to Speed Step 1 as someone said.
The loco starts to move before the prime mover starts. Not so good.
Right now I am wishing I would have stayed with the LokSound Baldwin decoders.
Notice, not talking about notching. Complete prime mover shut down and start up is what I believe the OP was talking about.
richg1998 The loco starts to move before the prime mover starts. Not so good.
This sounds like you have CV 2, start voltage, set too high.
I think the OP was asking if the Tsunami has a startup and shutdown sequence like a QSI decoder -- no, it is not like a QSI at all. Turning the throttle to speed step 1 is the startup for a Tsunami, and pressing Emergency Stop is the shutdown.
A little brain dead in this respect, but maybe QSI has the startup and shutdown sequence patented.
I have emailed SoundTraxx about this issue.
Right now I am basing this on the LokSound Baldwin decoders that can easily be configured for prime mover start up and shut down with the loco not moving.
Yes, I know, the LokSound is not made in the USA but this day and age, I do not consider that an issue.
Right now my Baldwin LokSound locos can start moving at 1 mph at speed step one, 128 mode with a max speed of 40 mph. The prime mover rpm picks up some before the loco moves.
I LOVE the simple and re-mappable startup/shutdown of Loksound decoders. I wish QSI could be configured the same. I have 2 Tsunami's on the way, and hope this doesn't taint all the good things I've heard about them. I had a horrible experience with soundtraxx customer support on a couple of LC series in the past that has kept me away from the Tsunami's for this long.
I also LOVE the RPM "ramp up" that the LokSound does prior to starting the motor moving- as described above. It took QSI a bit to get this down, but the Proto SW9 is decent and the H10-44 is great. The Paragon in my new Q2 has this and it is adjustable. Probably not an issue for steam, but nice for diesel.
Again, I hope this is not the case for the Tsunami. All the good quality sound in the world would not make up (IMO) for unrealistic motor to sound synchronization, and poor startup/shutdown sequence control.
Crossing my fingers+++++
cacoleI think the OP was asking if the Tsunami has a startup and shutdown sequence like a QSI decoder -- no, it is not like a QSI at all. Turning the throttle to speed step 1 is the startup for a Tsunami, and pressing Emergency Stop is the shutdown.
No, not exactly. I'm the OP. As the Tsunami came installed, the loco would go through the start up sequence as it was being put on the rails. I'm sort of assuming that it would also go through the start up sequence on system power up. The information I couldn't find initially was how to make the motor sound shut down so that I could make it re-start. No sense having some great start up sounds if you can't show them off.
Looking at the on-line users manual, I found that you can make the motor go through the shut down sequence by pressing the emergency stop botton on the CE handset one time. People being what they are, some impatient individual will push the E-stop three times and cause a system shutdown. I find this unacceptable.
What I wanted to know was if there was a way to program one of the otherwise unused function keys to have it initiate the shutdown rather than the E-stop.
Some of the Tsunamis that come in locos factory installed (Bachmann etc) are not the same design as the separately sold versions that usually have lots more features. You might want to check with Soundtraxx to see what features are included in this version.
I do know that the steam Tsunami's (full featured versions) functions can be re-mapped within limits. There is a chart in the manual. Not sure about start up sequence because I generally don't bother with such being steam and all. I have to say that the galloping goose is one cool decoder with the engine revs and shifting sounds. The goose is my favorite guilty pleasure at my friend's narrow gauge layout. I can see why you want to show it off...
Guy
see stuff at: the Willoughby Line Site
What happens if you activate the "Quiet mode", CV 113? A value of, say 20 there to try it.
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trainnut1250Some of the Tsunamis that come in locos factory installed (Bachmann etc) are not the same design as the separately sold versions that usually have lots more features.
I think I mislead you when I said "as it came installed". This Tsunami was an after-purchase installation. When I said "as installed", I meant as installed by the guy at the hobby shop.
Graffen What happens if you activate the "Quiet mode", CV 113? A value of, say 20 there to try it.
I don't know what "quiet mode" is. The Tsunami instructions are pretty clear on how to make the engine go through the shutdown sequence, once you find it:
They don't mention changing any CVs.
Again, all I want to do is use a function key to make this happen instead of the emergency stop button, just like with a QSI or an MRC.
maxmanGraffen What happens if you activate the "Quiet mode", CV 113? A value of, say 20 there to try it. I don't know what "quiet mode" is. The Tsunami instructions are pretty clear on how to make the engine go through the shutdown sequence, once you find it: "Start the Prime Mover To start the diesel engine, simply increase the throttle to speed step 1. The engine will crank over several times and settle into a nice idle. On a few command stations, such as the NCE Power Cab, the Tsunami decoder may skip the startup sequence and immediately play the idle sound. If this happens, press emergency stop first, then increase the throttle and you should hear the engine start." They don't mention changing any CVs. Again, all I want to do is use a function key to make this happen instead of the emergency stop button, just like with a QSI or an MRC.
To start the diesel engine, simply increase the throttle to speed step 1. The engine will crank over several times and settle into a nice idle. On a few command stations, such as the NCE Power Cab, the Tsunami decoder may skip the startup sequence and immediately play the idle sound. If this happens, press emergency stop first, then increase the throttle and you should hear the engine start."
From the manual:
GraffenUsing the Quiet ModeTsunami’s Quiet Mode is used to turn the sound on only after the decoder is placed into service. It will also automatically turn the sound effects off when the decoder is not being used. This is particularly useful when you have a large number of sound equipped engines on your layout and don’t wish to have them turn all at once!
Maybe this is worth trying, thanks. But if I read what it says, my impression is that it is turning the audio off and on automatically, sort of like using the mute function except without user input. It does not say that it makes the engine sound go through the shut down sequence.
Again, what I'm looking for is a method for the operator to shut down the engine, just like with the other decoder brands, without having to use the E-stop button.
Below is a link to a video of a Spectrum 70 ton with LokSound Micro decoder. I can press Function 8 and the prime mover starts. Get up to speed, then stop and press Function 8. The prime mover shuts down.
http://www.youtube.com/user/richg15y#p/u/10/lVr3dcb0gdk
Hit Function 8 again, the prime mover starts up again. No EStop used. I use the NCE Power Cab.
With the Tsunami, after hitting the EStop the prime mover shuts down.
I go to speed step 1, the loco begins to move and the prime mover starts up after about one second. Not prototypical.
My LokSound decoders are configured to start moving the locos at one mile per hour at speed step one.
This what I would like with the Tsunami decoders. Not sure I can achieve this right now. If not, I will probably sell the Tsunami on ebay and go to strictly LokSound decoders.
richg1998 With the Tsunami, after hitting the EStop the prime mover shuts down. I go to speed step 1, the loco begins to move and the prime mover starts up after about one second. Not prototypical. My LokSound decoders are configured to start moving the locos at one mile per hour at speed step one. This what I would like with the Tsunami decoders.
This what I would like with the Tsunami decoders.
Well, I just got back from the LHS where the Tsunami was installed. I spoke to the installer, and the short answer regarding getting a function key tasked to get the motor to shut down was "it can't be done". The longer answer was that the Tsunami folks designed the decoder the way they thought it should be, and were not going to give anyone access to the decoder's "brains" to do otherwise.
I did bring up the issue about having to be at speed step 1 to initiate the motor startup and how normally the CVs were set up to have the looco start moving at that point, and that it wouldn't be prototypical to have the loco start moving before the motor started. The answer there was to quickly move the handset speed controller from a zero setting to speed step 1 and then back to zero, allowing the startup sequence to be completed before the loco moves. Doesn't sound ideal to me.
I suppose that the way out of that issue would be to re-program the CVs so that the loco starts to move at speed step 2 instead of one.
Still doesn't make me happy as I can't get my original issue solved, but since it is not my loco and not my decoder, such is life.
Hi maxman
That is the problem when techies design software for real life situations. SoundTraxx has done some great things but I did not become aware of this issue until I obtained some LokSound decoders and made the comparison.
Oh well, live and learn.
OK, your LHS is correct. I just tried it with my new Baldwin Tsunami. The Prime Mover does start but the loco does not move if I go back to zero quickly. Thanks for the update.
I did mention this on the Yahoo SoundTraxx DCC forum, though maybe others knew this and the issue never came up. I will have to dig into the Tsunami diesel manual and see if I can find anything on this issue.
I have spoken on the phone to techs at Soundtraxx several times and they have been very helpful when other sources were stumped (they also respond to e-mail). Rather than take the LHS' word for it why not ask the guys who built the thing? At the very least if the LHS is right, Soundtraxx gets the feedback from users and may make changes to later models...
trainnut1250 I have spoken on the phone to techs at Soundtraxx several times and they have been very helpful when other sources were stumped (they also respond to e-mail). Rather than take the LHS' word for it why not ask the guys who built the thing? At the very least if the LHS is right, Soundtraxx gets the feedback from users and may make changes to later models... Guy
Yes, I suppose that I could call, except that richq1998 alredy mentioned in one of his posts above that he had e-mailed them. Maybe he'll post the response, if they choose to answer.
My take on the conversation with the LHS guy was that there already had been some back and forth with Soundtraxx on similar issues, and the response was basically that if you didn't like what the decoder did you were free to get your sound elsewhere.
There was one thing that came out of the LHS conversation that I found interesting. Installer-guy said that people at the club he belonged to didn't like the double-click function key 9 to shut down the motor procedure because it was too hard to understand. They liked the e-stop thing better because it was "easier". The "move speed controller from zero to speed step one and back quickly so the loco doesn't move until motor starts up" thing apparently was easy for them to comprehend. Takes all types, I guess.
I guessit depends on what DCC system they have - with Digitrax you can set it up so the e-stop button ONLY works on the loco you have selected - you can't shut off the entire layout. In fact that's the default setting on a DT400/DT402. E-Stop is actually a special packet defined in the NMRA standards, so if that's what the Tsunami is designed to respond to, I would tend to agree that there is simply no way to make a function key perform the same operation. It's a shame none of the other systems allows their computer interface to see the command sent from any throttle - otherwise I could imagine a macro in JMRI that would see a user hit F9 and send an E-Stop packet to the address of the loco that person is controlling.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Strike two for soundtraxx
My Tsunami GN1000 EMD 567 units arrived yesterday and I installed one today.
I wish I had read this post prior to ordering them. With all the great things people have been saying about them I thought for sure they would be great.
I was gun-shy on tsunami at first because of a previous bad (horrible, actually) experience with LC-100, which I won't go into.
How do people that love the Tsunami live with the prime mover RPM lagging the speed of the loco? I find this MOST unprototypical and unacceptable.
I tried the suggestion in the manual regarding setting the auto notching to a "less sensitive" value, but that actually made it worse.
As noted in this thread, the loco starts moving before the startup sequence is even finished, unless you fast-finger the control, then every time the throttle is increased, the motor responds WAY before the sound. Momentum also makes this worse. Nothing IMO is more unprototypical than a locomotive slowing to a stop, with the motor at high RPM, and then the RPMs dropping to idle after the loco has been sitting there for several seconds.
I'm actually OK with the Estop shutdownm but the speed step 1 startup is simply BAD PROGRAMMING, along with the RPM/motor speed issue. I can't believe the manual actually has TWO paragraphs explaining how the prototype prime mover is feeding the generator, not the wheels, hence the resultant "disconnect" between RPM and speed.
Additionally, for all the fanfare about 16 bit sound, I didn't find it that much better than QSI. In fact, I would rate them the same. There WAS less "static" at low volumes than LokSound 3.5 (which is my only complaint with ESU), but the sound its self wasn't "far superior", as I've been led to believe, and the motor control is no contest in favor of ESU.
So, if anyone is interested, these will be on ebay very soon.
I was going to give one more chance to tsunami for steam, but if the startup/shutdown is the same as this, I may rethink even that. At least with QSI, you can send another command, such as F0, and the sound starts (although I'd MUCH prefer a single funtion command versus the three double tap commands for true startup/shutdown).
Sorry for the rant, but I do feel a little better!
Unfortunately the engine shutdown sequence in Tsunami decoders using automatic notch is not available for Lenz Systems users. I install sound in locos and the startup issue I solved using speed table enable. For extended adresses, I put value 54 in CV29 and value 11 in CV25. This causes the locomotive departs on step 3 or 4. Then you can make the movement 0-1-0 in throttle smoothly. It's also recommended to program any value in CVs 3 and 4 for more realistic operation.
But shutdown sequence is possible only if you use manual notching. In automatic notching, the ST button in Lenz System mute the decoders in both configurations. I don't know that the NMRA Standarts says about Emergency Stop, because each manufacturer handles this command in a different way. I contacted Soundtraxx and got no response about this problem.