For those interested in a flexible route controller circuit board you can build, here's a pic of the board and a description of it's capablilities.
Board measures 2.4" W x 3.0" H
Each board can control 1 or 2 tortoise switch machines (2 for a cross-over track setup using just 2 push buttons) and up to 2 Bi-color LEDs per machine via the set of 6 sockets in the upper left. All LED resistors are on the board, so no need to solder them on to the LEDs.
These boards can be daisy chained to control up to 9 tortoise machines, in any track configuration and with any power up "switch state". That's a total of 9 yard tracks plus a mainline. The 3 position pin blocks in the middle of the board use typical 0.1" jumpers allowing the user to configure the position of that boards switch machine (by placing the jumper across the middle pin and top pin or the middle pin and the bottom pin). With this type of setup you can choose each switch machines position for each of the 10 push buttons, so you can have a yard on either side of the mainline or both sides of the mainline or even have switches off of a yard track. Just set the jumpers on each board according to the position desired for each of the 10 push buttons. The normally open momentary push buttons connect to 2 pin sockets located along the bottom.
The 3 position pin block Reset uses one jumper to set the power up state of the boards, so that your switch position can be either straight or diverging.
The headers on the right and left sides plug together to subsequent boards allowing the push button data to be sent to the connecting boards as well as the power connection. The IC is a LM556 timer configures as a flip-flop and has a total of 200ma of power.
RF&PRR
Where do I get these circuit boards and how much do they cost?
How much do all the parts cost?
Sheldon
Is there a parts list and schematic to go with the board layout?
Here is a schematic of the basic circuit (not showing all plug connections thou) and a basic parts breakdown per board. This PC board can be made by any company capable of making 2 layer boards.
I chose Sunstone Circuits. They can do 75 boards for $500.
My layout requires 74 of these boards and will cost approx. $900 for all the parts or about $12 for each board.
Nice, but too expensive.
I can do the same thing using one or two $3 relays per turnout, and I can use the extra contacts to route power and/or power frogs.
And, I can daisy chain the relays endlessly for any number of tracks.
All without having to have a batch of anything made.
Just my opinion, but unless space or power consuption is an issue, solid state is not always the best answer to every control problem. I have been designing control circuits for industrial machines since the 80's, solid state has its uses, but simple relays are often easier since they are often needed at the "end" of a circuit anyway to handle higher currents.
Yes, but a relay WILL fail. I and others have experienced this!!!
Also the LM556 has plenty of power for LEDs and Tortoise machines.
IMO, a solid state device is always better than mechanical one when it comes to electrical circuits.
RF&PrrYes, but a relay WILL fail. I and others have experienced this!!!
Yes, and so will solid state, I have thrown away dozens of non working TV's, VCR's, Stereo's, etc, etc, in my 52 years, most of which where completely solid state. And none of them could be economicly repaired.
I can replace a plug in ice cube relay without even using any tools.
I have used hundreds of them on several layout control systems I have built, maybe one or two have failed.
I'm not anti solid state, for lots of things it is far and away best, just not always for everything.
I installed/programed some of the first PLC's used in industry back in the eighties, and what a blessing they where for many things - again, just not everything.
The other factors, cost, space, power consumption, what it needs to interface with, all drive these choices. Fewer parts total often means lower cost and simpler construction, even if the is bigger or "old fashioned".
But what do I know, I'm just a hick with a pickup and a gun and I still run my trains with DC.
RF&PrrYes, but a relay WILL fail. I and others have experienced this!!! Also the LM556 has plenty of power for LEDs and Tortoise machines. IMO, a solid state device is always better than mechanical one when it comes to electrical circuits. RF&PRR
..... Bob
Beam me up, Scotty, there's no intelligent life down here. (Captain Kirk)
I reject your reality and substitute my own. (Adam Savage)
Resistance is not futile--it is voltage divided by current.
"Valves" (Vacuum tubes) for me. Helps heat the train room.
I am not really being serious of course, but when the big war comes and we all get EMP'd you will wish you had never gone to solid state. Tubes and relays will still work just fine.
Karl
The mind is like a parachute. It works better when it's open. www.stremy.net
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Nice, but too expensive. I can do the same thing using one or two $3 relays per turnout, and I can use the extra contacts to route power and/or power frogs. And, I can daisy chain the relays endlessly for any number of tracks. All without having to have a batch of anything made. Just my opinion, but unless space or power consuption is an issue, solid state is not always the best answer to every control problem. I have been designing control circuits for industrial machines since the 80's, solid state has its uses, but simple relays are often easier since they are often needed at the "end" of a circuit anyway to handle higher currents. Sheldon
The cost is all in the PC board, you simply cannot get them produced for personal use inexpensively. Unless you DIY and feel like messing around with ferric chloride and stuff. Also too much is wasted on fancy connectors. Put a connector at the Tortoise end (using Molex pins, not those overpriced edge card connectors that really aren't meant for the application, cost too much, and tend to slip off), solder to the circuit board side. If you wire that circuit to a basic perf board, it's probably less than $2/turnout. The 556 is the single most expensive component and those are 50 cents or so from Mouser.
One full circuit per turnout is too much though. Economy of scale - use a microcontroller and program the routes in and one $20 circuit can operate 40 turnouts. Using said circuit to operate only 2 turnouts turns back into a money waster. One size does not fit all.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Well, sorry this has become a pissing contest over solid state / mechanical / vaccum tube
As Randy has stated ....One size does not fit all.........
AS I STATED IN THE BEGINNING.............FOR THOSE INTERESTED.
RF&Prr Well, sorry this has become a pissing contest over solid state / mechanical / vaccum tube As Randy has stated ....One size does not fit all......... AS I STATED IN THE BEGINNING.............FOR THOSE INTERESTED. RF&PRR
You posted, I asked questions, you answered, I politely said no thanks and explained why.
After that I was told why I was wrong (as usual on here), because I don't always follow the "conventional" thinking on a lot of stuff, I politely again gave my experiances, Others offered some thoughts (as usual), no problem for me.
No one has to agree with me, my self esteem is not invested in your opinion of my view and you should not be invested in others opinion of your design. I'm sure it will serve you well.
As I said in the beginning, looks good, I just have a less expensive method I prefer. I would have not known the expected cost of your design had I not asked.
And, Randy got the "one size does not fit all" line from me - I say that once a week on here about DC vs DCC. And I agree, even in this case.
Forums are about exchanging ideas and views, everyone is not going to agree.
Vacuum tubes do make the best audio amps, but a good solid state one is OK for me.
ATLANTIC CENTRALBut what do I know, I'm just a hick with a pickup and a gun and I still run my trains with DC.
You said it I didn't!
As Randy said, it's all about the board cost and expensive terminals. Protoboard the circuit for cheap.
Better yet, as Randy also says, use a PIC microcontroller, but that's not for everybody either.
To each his own of course.
Thanks for posting the parts list and schematic. Very interesting...
Hi from Belgium,
Good idea, it's just what I am looking for to control my Yard on my Maclau River RR in Nscale.
I am so sorry that beside a good idea and the"gift" you want to share about the schematic and the parts, only the price of the items are counting.....for some people.
If we use prefored board the cost will go down and anyway if we are looking for such device commercialy aviable the cost is far from your project. (reason why I will go to a test board of this design in the next week!!!)
Second any relay systems needs so much wiring and could be out of service for just one relay that I don't want to use them anymore.
Thanks a lot to share it.
Marc
I use "latching" relays (Tyco-Axicon P/N D3063, 5 volt version, check Mouser for other voltages) Mouser price, $2.70 ea., less in quantity.
A momentary pulse to one coil moves the relay to a position. A momentary pulse to the other coil moves the relay to the other position. The relays are DPDT, so the contacts are wired the same as a toggle switch is to reverse polarity.
The Tortoise will do its slow thing, but will be controlled the same as a conventional turnout motor, with a lot less current.
I use a small section of perf board to mount the relay near the switch machine. I cut the board from a large piece of perfboard, using only the small size I need