Zephyr Power Suply Issues.

[kriegmeister]

Hallo from Greece

I have some questions i would like to ask you guys. I bought a used Digitrax Zephyr, without a power suply (no LT1 Decoder and LocoNet Cable Tester either). what troubles me is that on the back of the zephyr box the power input reads "power in 15VAC 2.5 Amps" ,now somewhere i read that it can also operate with DC power suply? What kind of Electrical current do the American Diesel model Engines use (ATLAS,ATHEARN,BLI) DC or AC ,because in Europe we have Marklin(3 Rail) which on one hand is AC while Trix and Roco is DC (actually Roco has some AC Models too). Will the Zephyr tranform the Electrical current to whatever is apropriate to run the Locos? I have spent a great deal of money getting DCC and sound equipped Locos(2 atlas, 1 Athearn, 1 BLI) I feel i made a Big mistake and i don't have the tracks yet to test them on (they are on their way). Please help A fellow Model Railway fan.

Also I am modeling in HO Scale.

P.S I love UP and SP Diesel.

Favorite Model train : Atlas FM Trainmaster. 

[rrinker]

 The Zephyr OUTPUT is NMRA DCC, a square wave signal that is compatible directly with antything except the Marklin Digital system. So it will run your locos with DCC decoders without a problem. It works fine with decoders by European manufacturers such as Zimo, Lenz, CT, and ESU, just as it works fine with US decoders from Digitrax, NCE, QSI, TCS, and Soundtraxx.

 For input power - you need to find a suitable power supply for your locale. The bigger Digitrax sets don't come with power supplies, in the US the Zephyr comes with the Digitrax PS315, a 3 amp, 15 VAC transformer. They usually don't include the transformer for Europe or Australia, as the PS315 has a 120VAC input only, it won't work on 240 or other systems used elsewhere in the world. Probably someone in your country can point you to a supplier that would sell an appropriate transformer that will connect to your mains supply and produce the 15VAC at 3 amps needed by the Zephyr. As well as a mating barrel or coax connector to plug in to the socket on the Zephyr.

                                           --Randy

[kriegmeister]

Yes thanks for the speedy reply, but you have to use plain English as i am from Greece.

So what Power supply should i use DC or AC?

I want to Include in my (future layout) a portion with European Diesels (Taurus, Siemens, Hercules) Austrian, German, Swiss Electric or Diesel Locos.

Trix is DC as well as ROCO.

[richg1998]

kriegmeister

Yes thanks for the speedy reply, but you have to use plain English as i am from Greece.

So what Power supply should i use DC or AC?

I want to Include in my (future layout) a portion with European Diesels (Taurus, Siemens, Hercules) Austrian, German, Swiss Electric or Diesel Locos.

Trix is DC as well as ROCO.

 

Hello

The following data augments what is published on the Web.

• Power input socket
  • the input requires 15V (rms) AC 50/60Hz (must not exceed 16V rms)
  • alternatively, 18V DC may be used (must not exceed 22V DC)
  • the power supply requires at least 2.5A to meet the full capability of the Zephyr.
  • the connector is 5.5mm dia. (outer), 2.0mm dia. (inner)
  • for a DC supply, the centre pin is positive, the outer conductor is negative.

The Zephyr can operate with AC or DC. See the above.

Below is what I do with a question like this. I do not know if you can use Google to search but I think you must have some kind of search capability over there.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ei=8d74SrqpK9GjnQeemNiHDQ&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&ved=0CAYQBSgA&q=digitrax+Zephyr+Power+Supply&spell=1

You will find Zephyr instruction manuals in those links. Good luck. Most references say 15 V AC  but there is a circuit in the box that allows 18 V DC. Carefully read all the information if you use a DC supply.

Rich

 

 

[kriegmeister]

Thanks man i already have Zephyrs manual in PDF but being PDF i get tired scrolling down and down.

Tommorow i will print it out and bind it like a booklet.

I am going to READ IT thoroughly.

[rrinker]

 You will want to use the DC versions of locos, fitted with DCC decoders. The power supply INPUT to the Zephyr does not matter - either of the specified sources, AC or DC will work equally well. The INPUT has no bearing on what the Zephyr puts out to the track.

 Use whichever you can readily find, although in general an AC power supply is less expensive since there are fewer components.

                                          --Randy

[richg1998]

The Zephyr has a full wave bridge rectifier at the input for AC or DC. This bridge rectifier will drop the voltage about two volts when you use DC. That is why the specs say, 15 V AC and 18 V DC. With DC, the controller output will be the same as if you were using AC.

Rich

[CSX Robert]

richg1998

This bridge rectifier will drop the voltage about two volts when you use DC. That is why the specs say, 15 V AC and 18 V DC.

Actually, the bridge rectifier has nothing to do with the different input voltage ratings for AC and DC(other than the fact that the rectifier is why it can accept AC), after all, the input suffers the voltage drop whether it is AC or DC. The reason for the different ratings is because the AC voltage is expressed as RMS(root mean square) voltage and when you rectify and filter it, the DC voltage you get is the peak-to-peak voltage(minus the voltage drop through the rectifier). The peak-to-peak voltage of a sine wave is 1.414 * RMS voltage. The maximum ratings for the Zephyr(according to page 52 of the manual) are 16 V RMS AC or 22 VDC because 16 * 1.414 = 22.624.

[richg1998]

 The full wave bridge will drop about 1.5 volts when DC current passes though it. The full wave bridge circuit is what was used in the older DC powered locos which used constant lighting. This would rob about 1.5 volts going to the motors. Not a big deal but some modelers noticed the difference when adding constant voltage to their DC powered locos. I have seen the discussion a lot in the past. Many times someone who suggested the circuit did say the bridge will take away about 1.5 volts from the motor.

Having used this type of power control for other electronic devices, I have seen the difference and measured it.

The decoder bridge rectifier also drops a little. If concerned, go with 15 volts DC if you will use DC. With large layouts you can have voltage drop depending on how much rail you have. Still not a big deal in many instances.

Rich

 

 

[simon1966]

http://www.digitrax.com/kb/index.php?a=897

Here is the link again to the tech depot article which answers your question.  I see you found your way over here from the Classic Toy trains section!

[CSX Robert]

richg1998

 The full wave bridge will drop about 1.5 volts when DC current passes though it.

Yes it absolutely will and I did not say that it would not. What I did say is that it will also drop the AC voltage the same amount and that this voltage drop is not the reason for the different input voltage ratings for AC and DC.

[retsignalmtr]

You can use a regular power pack to power your Zephyer. Connect it to the AC accessory terminals of your power pack until you get a proper power supply for it.

[kriegmeister]

I would like to thank all the fine people that spent their time addressing my problem. I m happy to tell you that i have obtained a suitable power supply for the digitrax Zephyr and it opperates quite well. I have been able to Control 2 locomotives at the same time a DCC one and an Analog one. I have 3 other DCC equipped Locos but as i bought them used on Ebay i don't know their addresses and Zephyr can't read back addresses on the programing track. dnd error appears. I would especially like to thank Randy Rinker as his quote on the Address calculator proved crucial in changing the default address (using OPS mode on the main) of my beloved ATLAS Trainmaster to the more suitable Rd Number #3035. I believe i owe you OUZO Drink from Greece.

[simon1966]

Ouzo, wonderful stuff if you like aniseed!  How about some of that retzina?  Although in my experience it always tastes better under a blue Grecian sky.

Anyway, there are some decoders out there, in particular some of the Lenz ones, that do not work real well on the program track.  Here is a trick you can try.  Take a 1K ohm resistor and join the two rails of the program track.  A simple way to do this, so that it can be removed easily, is to solder alligator clips onto each leg of the resistor and then clip it to the tracks.  This will put enough resistance on the program track to allow the Zephyr to see the decoder.  This has worked very well for me with my Z with decoders that kept giving the dnd error.

Of course, this assumes that the decoders are installed correctly in the eBay purchases. 

[kriegmeister]

Thanks very much for the reply. As it turned out now i can run all of my DCC Locos (at the same time). i had an idea , at first i put the DCC loco(ATLAS SP GP-40 Rd No#3059) on the main and tried to select address(01,02,04....e.t.c) and see if it would run, as you can expect not before long the "FULL" message appeared on the Z's screen. Then i tried the Locos second half Road number and bamm!! it worked (the lights don't work but it runs) then i tried same technichue to the other Loco(Athearn SP AC4000 Rd No#267) and it worked too. Now the 3rd Loco an (ATHEARN SOU SD 40-2 Rd No#3214) i tried sellecting the Loco Long Address and it worked too. Great!! now i have to buy 2 Decoders for my Kato C44-9W and my Atlas Trainman GP-38 and of course more tracks as its getting pretty crowded at the yard with all those Locos. Thanks to all, happy Model Railroading , Merry Christmas and a Happy new Year with more trains. Chears Chris from ATHENS.