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DC Block Control Assistance

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  • Member since
    January 2009
  • From: Maryland
  • 12,897 posts
Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Saturday, October 17, 2009 8:55 AM

mfm37

ATLANTIC CENTRAL

But then again I did design and install the first use of a programable controller (primative computer for those who don't know) to control a pumping station in the Baltimore City waste water system back in 1981.

Sheldon

 

 

That's about the time my sewage bill started going up. Must be that Jones Falls station or the one down at North and Greenmount.

Actually it was the Jones Falls one on Clipper Mill Road just south of Union Ave, just walking distance from Life Like's old building.

Sheldon

    

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Posted by CP5415 on Saturday, October 17, 2009 9:31 AM

Ok, so initially, DCC can be a bit expensive, I get that. The decoders can be found cheap, ok perfect!

Q1 - How hard is it to wire a decoder into an Athearn BB locomotive?

Q2 - Can you run a DCC decoder equipped locomotive on a DC layout & viceversa?

Thanks

Gordon

 

 

Brought to you by the letters C.P.R. as well as D&H!

 K1a - all the way

  • Member since
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Posted by Robt. Livingston on Saturday, October 17, 2009 10:06 AM

You should be able to throw a simple switch on the loco and run a decoder equipped DCC engine on a DC layout.  Whether all DCC manufacturers provide this option is another question,  but it is technically feasible.  Carrera slot cars (Germany) work this way.

 

 

  • Member since
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  • From: Maryland
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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Saturday, October 17, 2009 10:20 AM

CP5415

Ok, so initially, DCC can be a bit expensive, I get that. The decoders can be found cheap, ok perfect!

Q1 - How hard is it to wire a decoder into an Athearn BB locomotive?

Q2 - Can you run a DCC decoder equipped locomotive on a DC layout & viceversa?

Thanks

Gordon

 

 

Q1 - If you have basic soldering skills installing a decoder in an Athearn BB loco is easy. Biggest job is isolating the motor from the frame.

Q2 - Most DCC systems have an address designed to run one DC train, motors may be noisy, may run a little hot and should not be left sitting still for long periods.

Many decoders are dual mode and will run on DC, but, some types of DC throttles use advanced pulse width modulation and all dual mode decoders are not created equal. Many will not like the signal from more advanced DC throttles. Which is ironic since many of those throttles provide slow speed performance equal to DCC for locos without decoders.

Also, most dual mode sound decoders provide very poor speed control when used on DC. Because the sound system has a high starting voltage requirement, the loco does not move until the the DC voltage is 7-9 volts typically. So speed regulation is then relegated to the remaining scale of the throttle, typically no more than 14 or 16 volts.

So while they do "crossover" performance is compromised in both applications.

But of course you must understand I am not qualified to answer your question since I am not a DCC believer. That is, while I think it is a good system that meets the needs of many modelers very well, I do not believe that it is the only or best answer in every case.

This despite the fact that I regularly operate a number of layouts with DCC, a few of which I even designed or helped build and/or wire.

If you are making the move to DCC, I'm sure you will be happy. Just understand, like any highly technical system there is a learning curve. If you keep that in mind and have the necessary resources, I'm sure your results will be good.

I will leave you with one last thought based on your opening comment, if you have 10 locos and decoders are $15, yes, in the big picture of what this hobby costs, decoders are cheap. But if you have 100 locos and some require $30 decoders the picture changes a little. And if you have 100 locos and you imbrace the idea of onboard sound, you are now up to the cost of a good used car.

We all make choices as to which aspects of the hobby are most important to us and I encourage all to find what makes THEIR railroad special to them and go for it.

To quote Sarah Palin and borrow from another forum member - "only dead fish go with the flow"

Sheldon

    

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  • From: Colorful Colorado
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Posted by Texas Zepher on Saturday, October 17, 2009 6:41 PM

CP5415
Q1 - How hard is it to wire a decoder into an Athearn BB locomotive?

Not.  I can do it in about 15 minutes.  The hard parts are taping a good ground screw into the frame, and the lights.  That makes the install dependent on the model type (F7 is not going to be the same as a SD24 with headlights over the cab).   It is also dependent on how fancy you want to rig up the lighting - marker lamps, letter board lamps, multiple-headlamps, mars lamp, dimming, LEDs vs bulbs, etc.

Q2 - Can you run a DCC decoder equipped locomotive on a DC layout & viceversa?

It depends on the decoder, and one DC locomotive can be run on some DC systems (channel 0).  Neither of these are things you really want to do.  Performance sucks.  With the channel 0 bit it can fry the loco's motor.

  • Member since
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  • From: Maryland
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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Saturday, October 17, 2009 11:18 PM

Robt. Livingston

You should be able to throw a simple switch on the loco and run a decoder equipped DCC engine on a DC layout.  Whether all DCC manufacturers provide this option is another question,  but it is technically feasible.  Carrera slot cars (Germany) work this way.

 


Robert, that makes intirely too much sense and would not promote conversion to DCC. To my knowledge no manufacturer has ever done that. Bachmann is the closest, they provide jumpers for the plug if you wish to remove their plugged in decoder (I've removed a bunch of them).

Sheldon

    

  • Member since
    June 2005
  • From: Phoenixville, PA
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Posted by nbrodar on Sunday, October 18, 2009 12:04 PM

davidmbedard

 Some early QSI decoders had a jumper for DC or DCC.

David B

 

The early Atlas non-sound decoders did too.

Nick

Take a Ride on the Reading with the: Reading Company Technical & Historical Society http://www.readingrailroad.org/

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  • From: Reading, PA
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Posted by rrinker on Sunday, October 18, 2009 2:00 PM

 And new ones don't need a switch, they just work. At least major brands like Digitrax, TCS, and NCE.

Also, the speed variation is not as great as some make it out to be, at least if the DC loco has a diode drop constant lighting circuit in it, it has almost the exact same motor circuit loss as a loco with a DCC decoder does.

                         --Randy


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

  • Member since
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  • From: Nebraska
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Posted by RedGrey62 on Sunday, November 15, 2009 10:57 PM

Just wanted to say thanks to those who posted to help me out.  I got the control panel wired up today and tested the layout this evening, everything works as advertised.  Still a couple of blocks to wire in (ran out of spade connectors!), but both main loops work like a charm as well as the passing siding.

Ricky

"...Mother Nature will always punish the incompetent and uninformed." Bill Barney from Thor's Legions

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