Hello, I'm new to forums so please just let me know if I'm not doing this right, Thx.
I have 1 Loksound XL V3.5 and 2 LokpilotXL V3.0 boards that I am installing in an A-B-A set.
I'm not sure if I should use them all under the same address thereby calling up all three with a single address or if I should have a different address for each board and consist them @ the throttle?
Also can anyone say when the mars lights on either end should be operational and when 1 or both is on/off? These are in EMD F7's and currently the seperate headlight is wired on "0" key for front headlight
Primarily,I'm needing info on how to make the rear A unit run in the same direction as the front one when I have them all together and I'd like to be able to "switch ends" at times if possable.
Also, my mars light connection has 4 wires, 2 for each grain of wheat bulb (I think).
Can someone help me with seting up the wiring to those? Does it go with one bulb on Aux 1 and one on AUX 2, then set up Aux 1 to be on steady while flashing Aux 2?
I don't have this specific decoder set, nor any Mars lights, so I'll stay away from that part.
I would give all units separate addresses unless they are hard-coupled together with permanent drawbars rather than couplers. I enjoy the simple exercise of bringing engines together and consisting them, and then breaking the consist at the end of the run and sending them off to other jobs. Separate addresses let you use them all independently. (Even B units can be operated from "hostelers' cabs" for use in engine service areas when the A units aren't around.)
Your DCC system instructions should tell you how to create consists and put engines in "backwards." It's not done the same way for every system, although the results should be the same.
There was an MR article a few months back about "advanced consisting" and how to set the engines up so that the lights behave the way you want them to. It involves setting up certain CVs in the decoder to do this.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
Welcome to the forum
As usual, I vote with Mr.B. When you use separate addresses and consist them,it allows you to speed match them.
I use Digitrax and assembling a consist with a DT400 series throttle is very simple. I don't know about the other systems.
Dave
Lackawanna Route of the Phoebe Snow
You can speed match even if they have the same addresses - having the same address doesn;t mean they have to have the same settings for start, mid, and top, or the same values in a speed table.
How to proceed for the OP depends on the intended use. If the units will be mixed and matched, then definitely individual addresses are what is wanted. If they will always be operated as a set, like they had drawbars, then by all means use the same address.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Randy:
I'm aware that each decoder can be programed independently, but when they all have the same address then only one at a time can be on the track when your are adjusting the speed settings. It's just easier when they each have their own address...at least for me.
I guess I should have worded it more carefully. I didn't mean to indicate that common addresses COULDN'T be speed matched separately, just that separate addresses is easier.
I have an A-B-A set of P1K C-liners. I used NCE DA-SR decoders, but some of the basics should apply.
I use them in the set at all times. I set them all to the same address (28). I chose to put 28A as the leader, 28B runs the same direction, and 28C is the rear A unit. On 28C I set CV29 to 7. This reverses the direction, no analog operation, and 2-digit address. If it needed a 4-digit address I would have set CV29 to 35. I blew up the LED headlight in 28C, so it trails 99% of the time. If I fix it, some function remapping will get the headlights working the way I want.
If you break them up and use them with other power, separate addresses would be the way to go. Not sure what system is in use. Lenz seems to prefer advanced consisting with CV19. The consist address is 2-digit. For CV19, forward running engines would use the 2-digit consist address, 1-127. To have it run backwards in the consist, add 128 to the consist address. For example, consist address 28-rear engine would have CV19=146.
The Mars light should have its own function. Probably should set it to one that isn't in use for sound. Mars light would be in use running on clear track, especially over grade crossings, very noticeable to motorists. When meeting other trains, etc, Mars light would be off, headlight dim.
Mike WSOR engineer | HO scale since 1988 | Visit our club www.WCGandyDancers.com
as phoebe vet says it is easier to speed match with different addresses, but once you have them matched you can then change the addresses to all the same if you wish. one down side with all the same address is that when you put the lights on, every unit will put it's lights on!, better to consist different addresses as some systems can then sort the lights to what they should be when you switch them on rather than all of them. i suppose with some function remapping it may be possible to only make the lights at the ends work with all decoders on the same address, or perhaps even just disconnect the lights you don't want to come on so you don't have to worry about remapping or different addresses.
I find it much easier to use the same address for cab units, and I use the lowest unit number, then switch the direction of the trailing unit. That way I don't have to write down or remember arbitrary consist numbers. It's also easy to tell the direction the set will move by simply rembering the lowest numbered unit (selected) will move in the direction selected. If lighting is simple, as in my case, the light follows the direction, so the light of the unit moving "forward" is lit automatically.
I'm using LokSound in PCM FA and Genesis F3 and F7 units.
Getting ready to start on my Sharks and Erie Builts.
If you have the LokProgrammer, the function mapping screen lets you select if the funtion is active in forward, reverse, or both. Very intuative, and the solution for your Mars light issue.
I don't have a LokPilot yet. Please keep us posted on how they interop with the 3.5 sound units. I'd like to pull expensive sound from B units, but keep them powered.
That was another next step of mine,but wasn't sure if the 3.0 ver was the equivalent of the motor control side of the 3.5.
Assembling a consist in Digitrax is simple.
1) Put the lead engine on the right throttle.
2) Put the second engine on the left throttle.
3) Move both engines a couple of inches in the same direction on the track regardless of which way they are pointing.
4) Press the "MU" button followed by the "Y" button.
The lead engine address now operates both engines. Repeat for each engine you want to add.
To remove an engine from the consist use the exact same procedure except:
4) Press the "MU" button followed by the "N" button.
Welcome
First off there will be a big difference in start up and running between the sound equipped loco and the non sound locos. You will have to experiment and add momentum in CV3 of the lokpilot locos to match the start up of the loksound decoder. It can be done,I have a Loksound in an SD9 and run it with a TCS decoder in the mate loco. CV29 will determine which direction you want the loco to run. If you want to have the rear loco run in reverse just add 1 to the value in CV29.
Setting them up with the same address will work great. Consisting them also will work. If you take them to another layout than you will have to break the consist and remake it at the other layout.
The headlight will be hooked to the white and blue wires. The mars light can be hooked to the yellow and blue wire. You will have to remap the yellow light function to another button for independent control. It would probably be best to map it to F3 due to the horn and bell functions being used in the loksound decoder.
Pete
I pray every day I break even, Cause I can really use the money!
I started with nothing and still have most of it left!
WOW! Thanks for all of the great replys and all the help from this friendly group!
Working through the night on this project, the priorities have changed. The lighting is now a secondary concern to the biggest issue...getting the boards to react to the changes entered in to the CV's.
I'm using the loksoundXL and lokpilot boards with a digitrax 402R duplex radio/infared throttle.
#1 Although I can get CV253 to accept a "good" value, I see no change in performance on the track. The loco starts immediately when set at at value 1 or value 255 ???. (I don't yet understand how/when to set the "bit" in the CV).
#2 in "special functions, step 15 in the user manual, it notes that in order to make loksound and lokpilots start out in unison, lokpilot needs to know when soud is on or off. I understand that fully. What I'm now having probs with is that sound on/off has to be set on F1 (B?) . I can't learn how to access B on the digitrax throttle. The digitrax book seems to indicate that A, B & C are researved for some future development use. Currently, F1 is programmed from digitrax for the Bell.
Thanks in advance for all your help.
(I tried the forums on the ESu website but I can't get through the German language!
.
Try the Loksound yahoo group. Mostly American and English speaking Germans.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/loksound/
You will have to join, but it is free.
Can smeone address ths?
I have the 2 locos starting up together now by putting a start delay on the locpilot loco so it will wait to move till the locsound loco spins up.
I had to enable "sound on/off in the lokpilot board to achive this as per the instrutions. By default sound on/off is assigned to F1. All is great,but now the bell which is programmed on F1 on the digitrax throttle has to be ringing all the time on loco #1 in order for loco #2 to see "sound on"... thus enabling the required start delay
Is there a way to change the "default F1 sound on/off to a different key?
I'm still very confused in understanding the procedures between "enabling a specific function (say to AUX 1) and assigning that function to a specific F key.
In this case, need to enable sound on/off (set CV 148 & 151 to 4), but how to get t off key F1 and move it to F12??
I can not get sound on/off working at all on the Loksound loco
Instead of using F1 for start delay why not add momentum to CV3 in the Lokpilot? Remapping CVs are in the instructions for your decoders. Loksound has a lot of info on those tiny pages. You may want to download the instructions to your computer and print them out larger off of their web site.
ANother useful option is to download DecoderPro and just set it up using the Loconet SImulator, it will run standalone that way and be fully functional except it won;t, obviously, read or write any CVs to your actual decoder. You can then open the programming tool and select the appropriate ESU decoder, and make the changes via the check boxes on the various pages. There is another page which lists all the CVs, and whichever ones you have changed by making the checks will be highlighted in red. Program those in in your usual manner and you will have the decoder operating as selected in DecoderPro.
I have some factory 21 pin LokSound units that have the "mute" on F1 like European units.
The "normal" assignment for North America is F8.
I remap all of mine to be silent untilI I press the function button (opposite of default), which also plays a short startup sequence. I have posted the CV mods for this several times here. I also remap that function to F6, so at least the button is the same as my BLI products, even though the sequence is not.
Interestingly, the Euro standard is silent by default, while American is sound on by default.
The LokProgrammer clearly illustrates function assignments in graphical "radio button" style, including any associated sound "slots". Not sure how to remap with straight CV programming. I must be spoiled.
If I have time I might be able to read the CV settings of a factory sound on F1 unit, then make my function map change for the sound to be on F8 in the GUI, then read back what CVs changed. Might be a few days....
Afterthought...I wonder if "sound on/off" and "mute" are different...
I've now d/loaded & installed Decoder Pro.......looks like I'll need several hours of reading before I can understand that. IE: how to assign sound on-off to function key F12 in F, R & stopped and how to remove sound on-off from function key F1.
Can anyone help me understand more easily the procedure to enable or turn on a function and how to assign/remove that function from an F key?
I'm thinking mute & sound off-on are different. mut is currently on F8 and sound on/off is currently on F1, but I'm not sure. What I need to leard to do is to remap an F function key
I'm using start delay instead of momentum because I don't want momentum delays at other speeds
Found this on Tony's Train Exchange:
http://www.tonystrains.com/tonystips/2006/031906.htm
Hmm, hope we can get around this. I like mine to start on step1.
Headed to train room now to check CV settings for sound on/off on function button change.
With 127 speed steps, there's almost no noticable difference between 1 and 2, other than 1 extra click of the encoder knob on my Digitrax throttle. I wouldn;t worry about it. I usually tune things to run best minimum speed on step 2 instead of step 1 anyway.
OK,I checked one of the factory 21 pin loksound units.
Here are some notes:
According to the lokprogrammer GUI:
FS and FF are listed before FL (light)and F1...never heard of these.
GUI shows "sound on/off" on F1 and "volume control/mute" is not associated with any function button.
I just remembered that most of my other sound decoders have the bell on F1,there is no bell on this setup. It's a German BR01.
F8 is a shoveling coal sound.
GUI alsoshows F1 associated with sound slot 8. I don'thave this file,soI can't see what that is, but I'm assuming it'sthe main chuff sequence.
I have the complete list of CV settings exported if you want.
I did try the "hybrid" settings I got from the yahoo group.
They did change the sound on/off to F8, but they did not change the slot assignment (shovel).
Part of the instructions I never needed note that the slot is referenced in CV 149 and 152.
I think if you check your CV settings for those two, and write them down (my values were 9, which was the coal shovel)...scratch that,you'll have to find where your main engine sequence is, and I don't know how to locate what slot is associated with F1....anyway, find that value and plug it into 149 and 152,then do the rest of the mod, and you will move the sound control (and associated sound) to F8.
Here's the rest of the settings to change F8 from muting the sound that is on by default into a true sound on/off control that is off by default.
Check that CV 130,133,136,and 139 are "0".
Change CV 148 and 151 to"0" this apparently is the off command for F8, which we have to find the proper sound to control.
Change CV 190 and 193 to "4" not sure but this might be the on command for F8.
Only problem is your main engine sound is still associated with F1 and another sound is associated with F8. In other words,you've moved the control (and caused it to be off unless turned on), but not the sound.
We still need to find the "slot" that's associated with F1 ,and move it to F8 by entering that number in CV 149 and 152. I think there are 2 because one is for forward and one for rev.
AHA!
I think 191 and 194 are the sound slot assignment for F8, and 149 and 152 are the assignments for F1.
This means...read CV 149 and 152.They should be the same.
Read 191 and 194. They should also be the same.
Write down what was in 191and 194 (just in case), then enter the value that was in 149/152, along with the "hybrid" mod.
YIKES, I'm an IT analyst by trade, and that whole episode kind of scared me!!
Okay, overthought.....you don'tcare about the sound slot,because you are working on a non-sound decoder.
Oh, well. I learned a lot about loksound programming tonight.
Maybe ESU kept the non-sound decoders that way because they don't have to worry about iterfereing with the F1 bell.
I think if you follow those hybrid mod instructions, it will move your "sound" control to F8, although it will also cause the sound to be off by default.
If you do the same mod to the sound unit, it will be off by default, then turn on with F8, and it will play a startup sound to boot.
WOW, I'm impressed with all the work you guys are going through to help. I appreciate it! This is some great info to try out tommorrow...Thanks.
I think I still have some issues: As you said....Mute function is now on F8. I need to keep the mute function if not on F8 at least somewhere. My trains are all overhead and the mute lets me step down the volume by incremants to lowest levals without going to "sound off" after all, that's the reason for buying this high dollar card is (hopefully) for great sound. So maybe we can figure out how to put the sound on/off to a differnt key like 5 or 12 or ????
I don't understand what "sound slots" are at all, but I gather there is 16 of them and perhaps each one is programmed to an individual sound to match this F7 diesel loco? My dealer loaded the sound files when he sold me the card. I believe, if I figure out which sound goes with which slot number...that I can select the slot and it will produce that sound?
A new prob cropped up today....very disturbing....at the very low sound levals I need to run this train overhead in my living room, the audio system has/generates all kinds of annoying static in the speaker just as the sound is coming up to idle. and some at idle. If I have the sound a little louder, the static disapates or is un noticable, but I can't run it that loud in my living room. I hope I don't have to find a way to muffle this speaker so that I can run at louder volumes to alliviate the static.
Thanks again and looking forward to any future notes!
It's hot as heck in Phoenix!
Jeff
As far as the numbers you assign, it depends on how you intend to use them. If you're going to run the A-B-A set together permanently, it would make no sense in my mind to give each unit a separate number. That way you don't have to worry about accidently breaking up the consist and having to re-do it. Many real railroads bought A-B-A or A-B-B-A sets of F units and gave them all the same number with letter designations to identify the separate units and treated it as one big engine. number.
As for the momentum, I think in your mind you may be exagerating the effect. It doesn't really "delay" things as much as it makes the movement from one speed step to another smoother. You can set it up to have a lot of effect, or just a little. Real engines don't speed up and slow down like sports cars, they take time to get up to speed or to slow down, a little momentum just helps simulate that.
I've got all my volume levels set relly low as well. I like to only hear the engine that is nearest me,even if I've got several running. If there's only one running,I can barely hear it across the room. I think my setting is 20 or lower.
I don't think there's anything you can do about the hiss. I think it's the lack of effeciency in the amp circuit or something. On mine, it's only apparent right at startup or shutdown. Like I said,my volume settings are somewhere between about 12 and about 20.
Sound slots are where the wav/mp3 files are stored that are accessed by function keys, or triggered by conditions in the sound sequence. They can be associated with any key, or none at all,and can be effective while in fwd, rev,or both. I think they can also be set by the user to be associated with a condition (for example; when changing from notch 1 to notch 2),but I haven't got that far.
Last night I figured out the corresponding CV settings for two of the function key associations with the slot numbers.
What I did was look at the GUI and note the slot assignment for a particular F key, then scan the CV setting list until I found a CV value with that number in two CV's with one CV value between them and noted them.
Then I went back to the GUI,and changed the slot assignment to another value,wrote the changes, then rescanned the CV values,and checked the noted CVs tosee if they had a new value that matched the slot number I had entered.
The clue for the 2 with 1 between was the text for the hybrid mod. I thinkthe one in between and the one before are the on/off commands.
This is MUCH easier to do with the programmer GUI, but I'm sure you can do it with decoder pro.
It is very logical, once you understand their thought process. GERMANS!
For speed matching two engines, I have two parallel yard tracks in my staging yard that are both about 15' long. The one closest to the backdrop is electrically isolated on a separate connection thru a DPDT switch so that I can either apply regular DCC power to it, or the power from the programming track outputs.
If the two engines have different numbers, I put the one I want to change the CV's for on the programming track and the other on the track next to it, and m.u. them together in a consist. Then I can run them back and forth together and make changes to the CV's of the one on the programming track until they run together like one.
If both engines are the same ID, like the A and B of an A-B set of F units, I don't have to put them in a consist...so it's easier to speedmatch engines with the same ID numbers, not harder - at least not for me.
Well I have two permanent latch ups an A-B-B-A and an A-B-A all F units and I am not sure what I did would be considered correct or not but knock on wood it's been working flawlessly in both latch ups. I gave all the units in each lash up the same address and simply wired up the rear A unit with the motor wires reversed. Both sets are F units P2K and Stewart respectively so I don't have Mars lights to contend with so I can't help you there. I don't think it matters who's decoders you use thats a matter of personal preference.
Thank You all for your continued support.
I've had sooo many questions, that I may have steered the group away from my most pressing (and ever changing) issues.
I have all 3 boards installed & working. You all might recall that I'm having issues with the delayed start on the LokPilot locos which are required to wait some time .....for the front A LokSound loco to spin up sounds before starting to move, so they all depart at the same moment.
The manual for LokPilot 3.0 on page 44 & 45 under "15: Multiple traction with LokSound Locomotives".... states that we have to enable "virtual sound on/off" recognition on the 2 non-sound boards in order that they know when to delay start moving or not to, based on weather or not the sound loco has the sound turned off or on.
By default, the sound on/off function in the 2 LokPilot boards is assigned by the manufacturer to Function key F1. The book explains to enable "virtual" sound on/off recognition by setting CV's 148 & 151 to value 4, then adjust start delay times for the back 2 locos as needed by adjusting the delay timing in CV253.
All of that went off perfectly. NOW THE PROBLEM ...F1 is the "Bell Key" on the Digitrax throttle. The key is labled with a bell symbol. I want to keep that as is is.
However as it is now, Sound on/off funtion on the LokSound board is by default on F8 (mute). If I want all of the consist to start off at the same time, when I have the "actual" sound off with F8 energized, then I have to have "virtual sound" off in the pilot boards turned off with F1 energized. This causes the bell to have to be ringing all the time with the sound off. Or the bell to be not ringing with the sound on (during start up from stop
My solution was to move the sound on/off function on all 3 boards to F12, thus restoring proper ops to the bell key. It took me a week of fiddling with the various CV's to remap that function on those keys!
This all produced a new prob that I have no solution for.
With the sound off /on assigned to F12 on all 3 locos, the back 2 locos react opposite
(in start timing, not in direction) to the front loco........sound off, the front loco starts immediately and the back 2 wait for the delay.... turn the sound back on and now the front loco waits for the sound to spn up before moving, but the back 2 start immediately! VERY STRANGE. If I move that function back from F12 to F1, they all start as required with sound on or off, but then I'm back to the Bell issue.
I'm sorry this was soooo wordy, but I'm about ready to return these LokSound boards to the dealer and get Digitrax boards instead.
Can anyone help me solve the F12 delima????.... why the back 2 locos won't react to F12 as they should when they work fine on F1?.....I know I'm missing soething here, but I just can't find it!
Thanks for being so patient with me.
Do I need to get ESu tech supprt on the phone to correct this...is there anyone there who speaks English?
Perhaps 1 of you guys could copy/paste this whole letter and send it to someone you know there????
Thanks, Jeff
I'd stay on this. It sounds like you've almost got it.
Perhaps those CVs that turn on "virtual sound" are not interacting with the new function location of sound on/off.
I wish I had a LokPilot, so I could see the values in LokProgrammer.
If you go Digitrax, you may also get rid of the hiss in addition to facing a different mu challenge with sound/non-sound decoders, but you'll gain a couple more problems.
I tried them for cost issues, but went back to LokSound because of:
1- Two decoders with same address in one locomotive (sound bug, and mated 165 motor decoder). Every fourth or fifth time I changed a config, the values would write to one of the two but not both, forcing a lengthy erase, and start from scratch operation. I was using a PR3 programmer.
2- No 567 sound flie correct for F unit (I couldn't believe it). Also limited sound selection after 3 years on the market.
3- Poor support on the web page. Engine sounds are listed by engine roster number,and not by prime mover type or engine modelnumber or horn type. Somelinks to features did not work even after months of checking back and trying again. Yahoo forum was decent, though, but couldn't resolve my issues.
4- Can't truly cut and past sounds.Decoder retains all files, causing memory to fill up if youwant to change bell,etc. Another erase and start over, still without desired bell, etc. IMO, this could be fixed via firmware or application interface programming.
5- Editing sound schemes is a nightmare (IMO), and looks like writing programming or raw VB or HTML code. LokProgrammer has "object orented" GUI.
6- Motor control of DH165 series is not as good IMO as ESU. No matter what I tried (and I think I have a relatively good handle on decoder programming), I could not get the 165 to start as smoothly as the ESU. I guess I am spoiled, as Digitrax has MANY rabid followers who swear by their decoders.
Good luck what ever you do,and please keep us posted.