Idaho, I think you got it right. I have the same equipment and have had ZERO problems. My system and decoders are fairly new, but no complaints at all.
I have read this thread and am really surprised with all the issues MRC has with their decoders. I have a MRC Prodigy Advance DCC system that works excellent. I also have several locomotives with the older diesel and steam synchro decoders. These decoders are now 3 - 4 years old and still working fine.
I did lose two decoders a couple weeks ago, but traced the issue to a set up problem. My base unit was plugged into a 5 amp power supply instead of the 3 amp that is supplied, and the unit can not handle the increased amps without being upgraded. This caused the voltage at the track to be 21 volts when read with AC multimeter. When I put the original 3 amp power supply back in, the voltage dropped back to the normal 14.6 volts. This increased voltage took out two decoders in a matter of minutes.
There was also two Soundtraxx decoders on the layout and the spike in voltage did not harm them. I think that MRC just needs to add more functions to their decoders and allow them to handle voltage spikes at higher levels without smoking the decoder.
Just my 2 cents.
Jeff
With MRC's position as one of the top, if not the top, supplier of DC power packs when DCC arrived, they were in a position to "take over the word". But they were late to the table, both in systems and decoders, and without the quality and features of the others. I expect the problem was that they are a small company, and they didn't have the skills and talent "in house" to design DCC items, and went "cheap" in solving the that problem. To make matters worse, it seems to me that they specified and designed their products from the DC users point of view, with the result being extremely limited command stations and decoders. It probably makes sense that this happened, they were designing baswed on what they knew, and knew very well, but it didn't translate very well into the DCC world. If it hadn't been for their name, they probably wouldn't have even gotten their foot in the DCC door.
It seems that on their latest (and what is it, 4th?) go round on DCC systems, they may have hit on a useful one, but looking back on the path of lack of compatibility, or upgradeability through thier previous faimily of systems, I have to admit at this point that I'm not interested. It seems that the quality problems with their decoders are even worse, which is sad. I hope they resolve things, since a good supplier is always a good thing. But the past few years has made me skeptical.
Jeff But it's a dry heat!
Did you see the MRC ad on the back of this months MRRer, they are now giving away sound decoders if you purchase a DCC system. I can't imagine that many readers of this thread will be motivated to take them up on their offer!!
Simon Modelling CB&Q and Wabash See my slowly evolving layout on my picturetrail site http://www.picturetrail.com/simontrains and our videos at http://www.youtube.com/user/MrCrispybake?feature=mhum
jbinkley60 jbinkley60 Vernon/IN jbinkley60The unit runs smoothly. Out of the box it has a fairly linear speed curve. Without the CV readback working I couldn't easily fire up JMRI to do some adjustements and have a little more control at the low end. Overall a nice unit. I applaud Athearn with the new Tsunami decoders. At some point in the near future I'll invest ion a Power Pax unit to allow CV readbacks. If it wasn't for this issue and the missing ditchlights, I'd give this unit an excellent rating. But I'll have to rate it behind the Atlas Gold units but can still recommend it as a solid addition to your roster. I have no trouble reading back the CV values using JMRI via my PR3. I use the power supply that came with my Zephyr to power my PR3 and have no problems with QSI or Tsunami decoders, either reading or writing the CVs. Have you tried the PR3? Vernon I tried the PR3 and no luck either. Occassionally I'd get a partial attempt. I could tell it was trying but no luck. I too have never had a problem up until now. I've programmed many QSI and other sound decoders with my Super Chief and PR3. I went ahead and ordered a Power Pax from Tony's. We'll see if it resolves he issue. After wrestling with this some more, I was able to get the PR3 to read CVs properly. Still no luck though with the Super Chief system. Anyway, after adjusting the speed tables and tweaking a few other CVs, I got the right performance I was looking for at the low end. I am warming up to this unit more and more. Again, the Tsunamis are a huge improvement over the MRC decoders and I won't be hesitant in the future to buy Genesis sound units with them. Now Athearn needs to rerelease the Genesis SD60s in Norfolk Southern, that were recalled earlier this year.
jbinkley60 Vernon/IN jbinkley60The unit runs smoothly. Out of the box it has a fairly linear speed curve. Without the CV readback working I couldn't easily fire up JMRI to do some adjustements and have a little more control at the low end. Overall a nice unit. I applaud Athearn with the new Tsunami decoders. At some point in the near future I'll invest ion a Power Pax unit to allow CV readbacks. If it wasn't for this issue and the missing ditchlights, I'd give this unit an excellent rating. But I'll have to rate it behind the Atlas Gold units but can still recommend it as a solid addition to your roster. I have no trouble reading back the CV values using JMRI via my PR3. I use the power supply that came with my Zephyr to power my PR3 and have no problems with QSI or Tsunami decoders, either reading or writing the CVs. Have you tried the PR3? Vernon I tried the PR3 and no luck either. Occassionally I'd get a partial attempt. I could tell it was trying but no luck. I too have never had a problem up until now. I've programmed many QSI and other sound decoders with my Super Chief and PR3. I went ahead and ordered a Power Pax from Tony's. We'll see if it resolves he issue.
Vernon/IN jbinkley60The unit runs smoothly. Out of the box it has a fairly linear speed curve. Without the CV readback working I couldn't easily fire up JMRI to do some adjustements and have a little more control at the low end. Overall a nice unit. I applaud Athearn with the new Tsunami decoders. At some point in the near future I'll invest ion a Power Pax unit to allow CV readbacks. If it wasn't for this issue and the missing ditchlights, I'd give this unit an excellent rating. But I'll have to rate it behind the Atlas Gold units but can still recommend it as a solid addition to your roster. I have no trouble reading back the CV values using JMRI via my PR3. I use the power supply that came with my Zephyr to power my PR3 and have no problems with QSI or Tsunami decoders, either reading or writing the CVs. Have you tried the PR3? Vernon
jbinkley60The unit runs smoothly. Out of the box it has a fairly linear speed curve. Without the CV readback working I couldn't easily fire up JMRI to do some adjustements and have a little more control at the low end. Overall a nice unit. I applaud Athearn with the new Tsunami decoders. At some point in the near future I'll invest ion a Power Pax unit to allow CV readbacks. If it wasn't for this issue and the missing ditchlights, I'd give this unit an excellent rating. But I'll have to rate it behind the Atlas Gold units but can still recommend it as a solid addition to your roster.
I have no trouble reading back the CV values using JMRI via my PR3. I use the power supply that came with my Zephyr to power my PR3 and have no problems with QSI or Tsunami decoders, either reading or writing the CVs.
Have you tried the PR3?
Vernon
I tried the PR3 and no luck either. Occassionally I'd get a partial attempt. I could tell it was trying but no luck. I too have never had a problem up until now. I've programmed many QSI and other sound decoders with my Super Chief and PR3. I went ahead and ordered a Power Pax from Tony's. We'll see if it resolves he issue.
After wrestling with this some more, I was able to get the PR3 to read CVs properly. Still no luck though with the Super Chief system. Anyway, after adjusting the speed tables and tweaking a few other CVs, I got the right performance I was looking for at the low end. I am warming up to this unit more and more. Again, the Tsunamis are a huge improvement over the MRC decoders and I won't be hesitant in the future to buy Genesis sound units with them. Now Athearn needs to rerelease the Genesis SD60s in Norfolk Southern, that were recalled earlier this year.
I got my Power Pax installed today and am able to read back CVs now from the Tsunami decoder in the Genesis SD45-2 via my Super Chief system.
Engineer Jeff NS Nut Visit my layout at: http://www.thebinks.com/trains/
I guess Im the luckiest guy in the world. I am new to DCC. I decided to finally switch over to DCC about 3 months ago. I've got two Athearn Genesis F3AB sets, a BLI Blue Line Big Boy, Bachmann Spectrum 4-8-2, a Proto 2000 GP-7, Proto 1000 RS-2, all with sound and DCC, so I've got a good cross section of whats available. The QSI and Tsunami's are great,but they cost twice what a MRC would cost. Generally speaking, if something is twice the price its going to be better.Its like comparing a BMW to a Yugo and complaining that the Yugo is inferior.? I still feel for all you guys that good bad ones, as I know what its like to purchase items that dont work. When you pay your money, you deserve a product that works. Fortunetly for me, my MRC equiped F's and Proto RS2 sound fine to me and have been run for many hours with NO problems. Also, when I decided to switch to DCC, I went with the MRC Prodigy Advanced Squared. Couldnt be happier. The system is easy to use, and packed with features. I've programmed all my locos with little trouble, and Im having the time of my life playing with my trains.
Vernon in Central Indiana
jbinkley60 jbinkley60 cacole I purchased five of the original MRC decoders way back when. Four of them went up in smoke within three or four minutes, and the MRC decoder in a Walthers Trainline F7 that MRC was offering as decoder equipped was dead on arrival. The one good MRC decoder was put into the F7, but it too burned out in a couple of hours. Last year, after shunning any and all MRC products, I decided to give them the benefit of the doubt and purchased a Sounder Diesel Sound Decoder. It was totally dead on arrival and would not make any sounds at all other than an occasional clicking. When I contacted MRC about their warranty and explained that the decoder hadn't been installed in anything because it was DOA, they offered to waive their normal $10 service fee. When I got it back, it appeared that some kindergarten child had attempted to replace several surface mount components. The decoder gets too hot to touch and begins to smell of scorching plastic within less than one minute. I will never install it and will never, ever, purchase another MRC decoder. I have passed up on purchasing several Athearn Genesis locomotives because they contained MRC decoders. It seems that Athearn has finally realized that the MRC decoders were hurting their sales and have decided to switch brands. I preordered a Genesis yesterday at my LHS because it will have the new Tsunami decoder in it. My SD45-2 with a factory installed Soundtraxx Tsunami came in today. The unit itself has a very nice paint job, details and looks great. Typical Genesis quality. I downloaded the manuals from Athearn's website. The decoders look pretty full featured, from the manuals, but I haven't compared them to the standard Tsunamis that you can buy and use for upgrades. I'll put this unit on the layout tomorrow and provide more feedback.
jbinkley60 cacole I purchased five of the original MRC decoders way back when. Four of them went up in smoke within three or four minutes, and the MRC decoder in a Walthers Trainline F7 that MRC was offering as decoder equipped was dead on arrival. The one good MRC decoder was put into the F7, but it too burned out in a couple of hours. Last year, after shunning any and all MRC products, I decided to give them the benefit of the doubt and purchased a Sounder Diesel Sound Decoder. It was totally dead on arrival and would not make any sounds at all other than an occasional clicking. When I contacted MRC about their warranty and explained that the decoder hadn't been installed in anything because it was DOA, they offered to waive their normal $10 service fee. When I got it back, it appeared that some kindergarten child had attempted to replace several surface mount components. The decoder gets too hot to touch and begins to smell of scorching plastic within less than one minute. I will never install it and will never, ever, purchase another MRC decoder. I have passed up on purchasing several Athearn Genesis locomotives because they contained MRC decoders. It seems that Athearn has finally realized that the MRC decoders were hurting their sales and have decided to switch brands. I preordered a Genesis yesterday at my LHS because it will have the new Tsunami decoder in it.
cacole I purchased five of the original MRC decoders way back when. Four of them went up in smoke within three or four minutes, and the MRC decoder in a Walthers Trainline F7 that MRC was offering as decoder equipped was dead on arrival. The one good MRC decoder was put into the F7, but it too burned out in a couple of hours. Last year, after shunning any and all MRC products, I decided to give them the benefit of the doubt and purchased a Sounder Diesel Sound Decoder. It was totally dead on arrival and would not make any sounds at all other than an occasional clicking. When I contacted MRC about their warranty and explained that the decoder hadn't been installed in anything because it was DOA, they offered to waive their normal $10 service fee. When I got it back, it appeared that some kindergarten child had attempted to replace several surface mount components. The decoder gets too hot to touch and begins to smell of scorching plastic within less than one minute. I will never install it and will never, ever, purchase another MRC decoder. I have passed up on purchasing several Athearn Genesis locomotives because they contained MRC decoders. It seems that Athearn has finally realized that the MRC decoders were hurting their sales and have decided to switch brands.
I purchased five of the original MRC decoders way back when. Four of them went up in smoke within three or four minutes, and the MRC decoder in a Walthers Trainline F7 that MRC was offering as decoder equipped was dead on arrival. The one good MRC decoder was put into the F7, but it too burned out in a couple of hours.
Last year, after shunning any and all MRC products, I decided to give them the benefit of the doubt and purchased a Sounder Diesel Sound Decoder. It was totally dead on arrival and would not make any sounds at all other than an occasional clicking.
When I contacted MRC about their warranty and explained that the decoder hadn't been installed in anything because it was DOA, they offered to waive their normal $10 service fee.
When I got it back, it appeared that some kindergarten child had attempted to replace several surface mount components. The decoder gets too hot to touch and begins to smell of scorching plastic within less than one minute. I will never install it and will never, ever, purchase another MRC decoder.
I have passed up on purchasing several Athearn Genesis locomotives because they contained MRC decoders. It seems that Athearn has finally realized that the MRC decoders were hurting their sales and have decided to switch brands.
I preordered a Genesis yesterday at my LHS because it will have the new Tsunami decoder in it.
My SD45-2 with a factory installed Soundtraxx Tsunami came in today. The unit itself has a very nice paint job, details and looks great. Typical Genesis quality. I downloaded the manuals from Athearn's website. The decoders look pretty full featured, from the manuals, but I haven't compared them to the standard Tsunamis that you can buy and use for upgrades. I'll put this unit on the layout tomorrow and provide more feedback.
The unit is finely detailed.
You can see the silver tips on the MU hoses, the handrails and grab irons are very fine and not overly sized, the fans have see through grills and the cab windows actually slide. Missing though are ditchlights and sunshades.
I placed the unit on the programming track. This Tsunami decoder is the first decoder that I could not read back the CVs with my Digitrax Super Chief system on the programming track or in Ops mode. Aside from that programming was straightfoward (ignoring the lack of CV readback). I assigned the unit its 4 digit 1701 address and set CV29 to 34. This was done in Ops mode by selecting the default 03 unit address.
The sound on these units is unique. It is very clear and has good volume. The horns and sounds are all very good, but I like the QSI recordings slightly better. Overall a huge step up from the MRC decoders.
The unit runs smoothly. Out of the box it has a fairly linear speed curve. Without the CV readback working I couldn't easily fire up JMRI to do some adjustements and have a little more control at the low end. Overall a nice unit. I applaud Athearn with the new Tsunami decoders. At some point in the near future I'll invest ion a Power Pax unit to allow CV readbacks. If it wasn't for this issue and the missing ditchlights, I'd give this unit an excellent rating. But I'll have to rate it behind the Atlas Gold units but can still recommend it as a solid addition to your roster.
General motors appeared for all intents and purposes to be a successful company but as we all know they filed bankruptcy now didn't they. Many a good company has gone under because of the advice of the bean counters were taken as gospel. All these guys see is the bottom line and increased profits when they outsource their products to places like China and Malaysia etc. they care nothing about product reliability or culpability when it comes to making a product worth the price they charge. In general it's Screw the public who buys our stuff and think only about the stock holders or board of directors. MRC sells other products besides dcc decoders but you can bet your bottom dollar that if they follow the same business model with their other products as they do with their decoders they won't be long for this world, especially in this economic climate
I have come to the conclusion that being a lousy as MRC decoders are there is only one good thing, they can only get better, how they can they get any worse is beyond me.
As far as outsourcing products made in China one must speak in generalities yes there are a few good quality manufactures in China but for the most part their products are even below sub-standard. They do not know what the meaning of the word "clean room" is when it comes to electronics and their manufacturing standards are virtually non existent not to mention zero worker safety standards in place. in today's market for the most part China = JUNK!
rustycouplerdo they make these decoders for n scale steam
Well, to each his own. Some people drive M-B´s and some drive Yugo´s. Who is to say that one or the other is correct? If you can spend the money, buy good (expensive) quality, otherwise buy cheap that will (possibly) be more expensive in the long run.
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everybody swears by tsunami ,i was at the hobby shop the other day and do they make these decoders for n scale steam ,because these things were huge the price was just to much, i could buy another engine for the price of that decoder. i use digitrax and mrc for about five years and have not had any problems
mreagant I will say, however, that when it comes to continuing to produce poor quality products, I still don't get it. And, 'cheap' is not the answer.
Assuming you accept that this is the case, then it can only be incompetence, or indifference or perhaps it is the actual strategy of the company. "Cheap" very well can be the answer. If getting the low price means cutting corners in production and testing and accepting a certain failure rate, then cheap would be the answer. I am willing to bet that the vocal element here represents and over-sample of failed units. However, as can be clearly seen from the so called "rigid MRC bashing" that it has had a profoundly negative impact on the companies reputation. It may well take years for them to overcome this. To be fair to MRC, it looks very much like they are getting their act together on the DCC command side of things. Though I would contend that even this has not gone totally smoothly.
mreagantSorry, Simon. The "Made in China" excuse simply will not float
Why not? If you subcontract your manufacturing out, half way around the world, it takes far more diligence with quality control on the part of the importer than if you make them yourself in your own facility.
Of course it is possible to get high quality product from China, but it requires significant oversight and careful selection of supplier to achieve it. In many cases it requires an investment in inspection and testing back here in the US. It seems to me that MRC has failed to get a handle on the complex issue of subcontracted manufacture, especially when they are clearly aiming at the "cheap" end of the market.
For what it is worth, I own exactly 1 MRC sound decoder. I purchased it because it was cheap, to go into one of my young son's Geep. It has never gone up in smoke and continues to function. About every 2 months or so, I have to completely reset it as it fails to respond to commands. Once reset it will work fine for a a few weeks. I have never had to reset a sound decoder from QSI, Soundtraxx or Locsound.
Sorry, Simon. The "Made in China" excuse simply will not float. I could prolong this by mentioning a list of items as long as your arm that are of first quality and dependable and fully or partially made in China--- and likely withing 100 feet of where you are sitting. However, what had been a helpful discussion of specific examples (in most cases) of poor MRC decoder quality seems to be morphing into the same old rigid MRC bashing.
I've never defended MRC decoders and don't intend to do so now. My experience is limited, but at least positive. I will say, however, that when it comes to continuing to produce poor quality products, I still don't get it. And, 'cheap' is not the answer.
Not a good analogy at all David. While they may be slightly less expensive in some cases, buyers of these products, who will have some sophistication in DCC matters, are not at all likely to just toss them if they malfunction. They will return them and that is where MRC should be getting the message; a point I've made before. Even if this were a bait and switch game where they planned to make money only on the sale and then refusing to repair or replace, that would neither last long nor likely be worth the cost of doing it.
By the way. Have you ever shopped at a Dollar Store? If you have, then you noticed that a high percentage of what they sell is name brand, quality merchandise, and not always at a price point significantly lower (different) than the same product at other stores when on sale.
mreagantRegardless of what one or more individuals think of them and their business practices, they are, without dispute, a successful business. I doubt they are idiots. The mystery is why do they persist in this line of products if they are universally as bad as they are reputed to be. Something doesn't fit.
I suspect that there are many like you that simply can't understand what MRC has been up to. For decades they have been one of the most respected companies in the MRR hobby, and yet they seem to have made misstep after misstep with DCC. If they had actually set out to undermine the companies good name, they could not have done a much better job.
One thing I don't think is a coincidence is that the MRC decoders are made in China. Many of the other main brands of decoder are not.
davidmbedardBecause cheap sells.David B
Because cheap sells.
David B
EXACTLY! We had a club member who kept buying MRC sound decoders despite my telling him over and over that they were no good, "Because they're CHEAP!"
Over a year's period, he probably bought 10 of them, and not a single one lasted more than a few hours before going up in smoke.
He just wouldn't admit that he was getting gypped.
Jeff, that point was not lost on me at all, I just think it is only one, perhaps narrow, part of the picture. The mystery is why would MRC keep making decoders if, as these posts suggest, they are complete junk. Doesn't matter whether they are sold in bulk to a manufacturer or one by one to individuals. If they are all (fill in your prefered expletive) then that fact cannot have escaped MRC. If they know they are selling defective products, why do they keep making these products and selling them?
Regardless of what one or more individuals think of them and their business practices, they are, without dispute, a successful business. I doubt they are idiots. The mystery is why do they persist in this line of products if they are universally as bad as they are reputed to be. Something doesn't fit.
mreagant Thanks to all who responded with specific information about particular models or decoders to help answer this question. Those responses were helpful because they helped draw a pretty sad picture of MRC quality control or maybe even design incompetence. I think I know enough about business to understand that one cannot continue to sell faulty products. By appearence, however, this sample would suggest that they do. That just does not make sense. If the hundreds of other decoders they have sold are as poor as the ones described then they would notice, I think, by overflowing returned/trash bins that something is wrong. I find it hard to believe that there are legions of modelers out there who had similar experience and just laughed off a decoder meltdown and tossed it without wailing on the manufacturer. This is tough to figure out.
Thanks to all who responded with specific information about particular models or decoders to help answer this question. Those responses were helpful because they helped draw a pretty sad picture of MRC quality control or maybe even design incompetence.
I think I know enough about business to understand that one cannot continue to sell faulty products. By appearence, however, this sample would suggest that they do. That just does not make sense. If the hundreds of other decoders they have sold are as poor as the ones described then they would notice, I think, by overflowing returned/trash bins that something is wrong. I find it hard to believe that there are legions of modelers out there who had similar experience and just laughed off a decoder meltdown and tossed it without wailing on the manufacturer. This is tough to figure out.
Keep in mind that it was no accident that Athearn dropped them from their Genesis line of sound locomotive. They bowed to pressure and a lack of sales. For example, I have 20 factory sound equipped Atlas and BLI locomotives. I have no Athearn units yet. I will start buying them once the non-MRC locomotives ship. It's one thing when individuals don't buy products but when other manufacturers won't use your products, it will increase the pressure on MRC. They are a good company and I expect they will improve the quality of their products.
Mike,
I could match your experience word-for-word. My one MRC decoder didn't blow up, but both the sound and performance were way unsatisfactory. That loco now runs sweet with a Digitrax non-sound decoder.
I have two MRC Tech 4 220s on my DC layout and they work great. Apart from the usual Coke-or-Pepsi arguments, I don't think I've seen any real gripes about MRC DCC controllers.
But before I try another MRC decoder, I'll have to see a lot of postings that say they have gotten much better.
-Wayne