I'm a little reluctant to open this can of worms, but I'll do so anyway.
No one who reads these discussions with any frequency could have missed the fact that some number of the participants have various levels of disdain for MRC in general and their decoders in particular. However, it seems to me that much of this disaffection with the docoders has deep roots from experiences of several or more years ago. What I'd like to know is whether their current decoder products continue to have the same reliability issues as is asserted by some about their products going back to the 90s.
I realize that some folks who got burned in the past have sworn a blood oath never to use (or recommend) their decoders, so I guess they would have little first hand knowledge of current production quality. Some of the rest of you surely do have up-to-date hands on experience, and I'd like to know if they are still subject to failure like the early runs are said to have been, especially compared to other brands.
p.s. The question has nothing to do with MRCs advertising, customer service or even the prototypical accuracy of their sound files. Just wonder if they have improved in reliability.
I have an Athearn N scale Challenger (MRC brain) that lost it's memory twice in only about 45 minutes of operation and to my knowledge these engines are not old production items.However,my Big Boy hasn't had a glitch in about three hours...50%...not bad...........
Jacktal I have an Athearn N scale Challenger (MRC brain) that lost it's memory twice in only about 45 minutes of operation and to my knowledge these engines are not old production items.However,my Big Boy hasn't had a glitch in about three hours...50%...not bad...........
Bought a couple of the first Genesis FP45,s and SD45-2s with sound, they all blew, won't buy any more Genesis with the sound as long as MRC decoders are used. I now buy them without decoders and add my own.
Bob
I bought a brand new, just released, Athearn Genesis SD60 in June with an MRC sound decoder. It is as others describe, totally lacking in features and more. I returned it to my LHS within 48 hours. It is the only locomotive I have ever returned.
Engineer Jeff NS Nut Visit my layout at: http://www.thebinks.com/trains/
I'll be nice and say I'm gun shy when it comes to ther decoders, I have either no issues what so ever or total crash & burn I wanna smash em into a zillion pieces problems. The thing that really bugs me is as far as thier dcc systems themselves The Prodigy Advances Squared in my opinion can hold it's own against Digitrax and NCE and the rest of the lot give or take. I know some will argue that point but it's the old Ford vs Chevy vs Mopar argument as far as I'm concerned. So why can't they get their act together when it comes to decoders?
mreagantdeep roots from experiences of several or more years ago.
Guess my time frame should exclude me from answering But, it was awful! On the quest for a Big Boy so I went with the Athearn with the MRC decoder. I am not sure which was the worst, the engine or the decoder? For a Big Boy it could not drag any load worthy of a Big Boy, my Athearn Blue Box F-7 could out drag the Big Boy. Problem was in the tender, at a 25% grade the tender would not roll, called Athearn and they told me to take it back to my LHS. Decoder it self? At the time one main was DC and other was DCC. I did like the functions and sounds the MRC decoder had, but after a hour I would have to set the reset the decoder to default! Before I took it back it ran the DC line only.
Second Big Boy, pulled well, But lead truck would pull a wheelie going around left turns only? OK, that I can fix and decoder was working OK for a while. Then it started doing the some thing, have to reset about every 2 hours if not more often. That was it, back it went, got a refund and bought a PCM Big Boy.
The 2 Big Boys where the last Athearn engines I bought and where the only MRC decoders I will have had.
My LHS will not sell there decoders I will add.
Cuda Ken
I hate Rust
pastorbob Bought a couple of the first Genesis FP45,s and SD45-2s with sound, they all blew, won't buy any more Genesis with the sound as long as MRC decoders are used. I now buy them without decoders and add my own.
Athearn has announced that the Genesis line will be switching to Tsunami for their sound decoders. It wasn't clear whether they would stop using MRC decoders altogether, or only install Tsunamis in new models, while continuing with MRC in current production.
This, unfortunately, leaves dealers with a stock of MRC-equipped Athearn engines, which knowledgable modelers will not want.
I would say that Athearn's announcement, though, clearly indicates that they do not think that MRC has gotten its act together on these decoders yet.
Disclaimer: I have no MRC decoders, and I never have had any. I am thrilled by my Tsunami-equipped GP-9, though, and I applaud Athearn's choice of decoder for their signature engines.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
I purchased five of the original MRC decoders way back when. Four of them went up in smoke within three or four minutes, and the MRC decoder in a Walthers Trainline F7 that MRC was offering as decoder equipped was dead on arrival. The one good MRC decoder was put into the F7, but it too burned out in a couple of hours.
Last year, after shunning any and all MRC products, I decided to give them the benefit of the doubt and purchased a Sounder Diesel Sound Decoder. It was totally dead on arrival and would not make any sounds at all other than an occasional clicking.
When I contacted MRC about their warranty and explained that the decoder hadn't been installed in anything because it was DOA, they offered to waive their normal $10 service fee.
When I got it back, it appeared that some kindergarten child had attempted to replace several surface mount components. The decoder gets too hot to touch and begins to smell of scorching plastic within less than one minute. I will never install it and will never, ever, purchase another MRC decoder.
I have passed up on purchasing several Athearn Genesis locomotives because they contained MRC decoders. It seems that Athearn has finally realized that the MRC decoders were hurting their sales and have decided to switch brands.
I have read with great interest many people both here as well as on the Atlas forums tell about their "horror" stories about MRC decoders (both Sound and Non-Sound). I have installed almost 80 DCC decoders now in my collection of locomotives. To date, I have stayed mainly with Digitrax, QSI, NCE and Soundtrax decoders.
Last month I purchased my first MRC sound decoder. I don't recall the model number (edit...MRC 1663) but it is the sound decoder specifically made to be installed in the Atlas S series of switchers.
I carefully followed the instructions and to be honest, the installation was pretty easy. Once I finished the install, I put the engine on the programing track and used decoder pro to program it up. I then put the engine on the layout and was AMAZED!!!
I have never in my life heard such crappy "muffled" sound from a sound decoder. There is simply no nice way of saying this.This decoder is just garbage. The speed of the engine was cut in half. No matter what I did with the decoder pro, I simply could not get the top end speed up. I could not get the sound levels up to something that even came close to being acceptable. At the loudest volume setting, I could just barely hear the engine sound (s). I am 39 years old and do not have hearing problems. This decoder is just garbage, plain and simple.
Here is what the MRC web site says about this decoder. "Employing MRC's "Brilliance tm" live capture, full fidelity sound, this new dual-mode decoder with 28 NMRA functions, uses sounds actually recorded by MRC's Sound engineer (railside) from a real, American Locomotive Co. (ALco) 244 Turbo-Charged prime mover".
I have since removed the MRC decoder and installed an NCE decoder. Although I don't have sound now, at least the engine runs great.
I purchased the decoder from Walther's because it was "on sale" for 59.99. I knew better, like I said, I have read all the poor reviews of so many of you out there. i took a chance and was sadly disappointed. It's a shame too because I use to own an MRC PA and loved it.
MRC may make pretty respectable DCC systems, but their decoders have a very long road ahead of them if they want to compete with Digitrax, Soundtrax or NCE.
Mike Yeager
I have an MRC 1801 in a Atlas GP7 it is “OK”. But the sound isn't what I was hoping for and the motor control is poor compared to the non-sound Digitrax decoder it replaced. I have adjusted the cv for hours and can't get it to perform like I was hoping. But it was half the price of the other options.
Mike,
I could match your experience word-for-word. My one MRC decoder didn't blow up, but both the sound and performance were way unsatisfactory. That loco now runs sweet with a Digitrax non-sound decoder.
I have two MRC Tech 4 220s on my DC layout and they work great. Apart from the usual Coke-or-Pepsi arguments, I don't think I've seen any real gripes about MRC DCC controllers.
But before I try another MRC decoder, I'll have to see a lot of postings that say they have gotten much better.
-Wayne
cacole I purchased five of the original MRC decoders way back when. Four of them went up in smoke within three or four minutes, and the MRC decoder in a Walthers Trainline F7 that MRC was offering as decoder equipped was dead on arrival. The one good MRC decoder was put into the F7, but it too burned out in a couple of hours. Last year, after shunning any and all MRC products, I decided to give them the benefit of the doubt and purchased a Sounder Diesel Sound Decoder. It was totally dead on arrival and would not make any sounds at all other than an occasional clicking. When I contacted MRC about their warranty and explained that the decoder hadn't been installed in anything because it was DOA, they offered to waive their normal $10 service fee. When I got it back, it appeared that some kindergarten child had attempted to replace several surface mount components. The decoder gets too hot to touch and begins to smell of scorching plastic within less than one minute. I will never install it and will never, ever, purchase another MRC decoder. I have passed up on purchasing several Athearn Genesis locomotives because they contained MRC decoders. It seems that Athearn has finally realized that the MRC decoders were hurting their sales and have decided to switch brands.
I preordered a Genesis yesterday at my LHS because it will have the new Tsunami decoder in it.
Thanks to all who responded with specific information about particular models or decoders to help answer this question. Those responses were helpful because they helped draw a pretty sad picture of MRC quality control or maybe even design incompetence.
I think I know enough about business to understand that one cannot continue to sell faulty products. By appearence, however, this sample would suggest that they do. That just does not make sense. If the hundreds of other decoders they have sold are as poor as the ones described then they would notice, I think, by overflowing returned/trash bins that something is wrong. I find it hard to believe that there are legions of modelers out there who had similar experience and just laughed off a decoder meltdown and tossed it without wailing on the manufacturer. This is tough to figure out.
mreagant Thanks to all who responded with specific information about particular models or decoders to help answer this question. Those responses were helpful because they helped draw a pretty sad picture of MRC quality control or maybe even design incompetence. I think I know enough about business to understand that one cannot continue to sell faulty products. By appearence, however, this sample would suggest that they do. That just does not make sense. If the hundreds of other decoders they have sold are as poor as the ones described then they would notice, I think, by overflowing returned/trash bins that something is wrong. I find it hard to believe that there are legions of modelers out there who had similar experience and just laughed off a decoder meltdown and tossed it without wailing on the manufacturer. This is tough to figure out.
Keep in mind that it was no accident that Athearn dropped them from their Genesis line of sound locomotive. They bowed to pressure and a lack of sales. For example, I have 20 factory sound equipped Atlas and BLI locomotives. I have no Athearn units yet. I will start buying them once the non-MRC locomotives ship. It's one thing when individuals don't buy products but when other manufacturers won't use your products, it will increase the pressure on MRC. They are a good company and I expect they will improve the quality of their products.
Jeff, that point was not lost on me at all, I just think it is only one, perhaps narrow, part of the picture. The mystery is why would MRC keep making decoders if, as these posts suggest, they are complete junk. Doesn't matter whether they are sold in bulk to a manufacturer or one by one to individuals. If they are all (fill in your prefered expletive) then that fact cannot have escaped MRC. If they know they are selling defective products, why do they keep making these products and selling them?
Regardless of what one or more individuals think of them and their business practices, they are, without dispute, a successful business. I doubt they are idiots. The mystery is why do they persist in this line of products if they are universally as bad as they are reputed to be. Something doesn't fit.
davidmbedardBecause cheap sells.David B
Because cheap sells.
David B
EXACTLY! We had a club member who kept buying MRC sound decoders despite my telling him over and over that they were no good, "Because they're CHEAP!"
Over a year's period, he probably bought 10 of them, and not a single one lasted more than a few hours before going up in smoke.
He just wouldn't admit that he was getting gypped.
mreagantRegardless of what one or more individuals think of them and their business practices, they are, without dispute, a successful business. I doubt they are idiots. The mystery is why do they persist in this line of products if they are universally as bad as they are reputed to be. Something doesn't fit.
I suspect that there are many like you that simply can't understand what MRC has been up to. For decades they have been one of the most respected companies in the MRR hobby, and yet they seem to have made misstep after misstep with DCC. If they had actually set out to undermine the companies good name, they could not have done a much better job.
One thing I don't think is a coincidence is that the MRC decoders are made in China. Many of the other main brands of decoder are not.
Simon Modelling CB&Q and Wabash See my slowly evolving layout on my picturetrail site http://www.picturetrail.com/simontrains and our videos at http://www.youtube.com/user/MrCrispybake?feature=mhum
Not a good analogy at all David. While they may be slightly less expensive in some cases, buyers of these products, who will have some sophistication in DCC matters, are not at all likely to just toss them if they malfunction. They will return them and that is where MRC should be getting the message; a point I've made before. Even if this were a bait and switch game where they planned to make money only on the sale and then refusing to repair or replace, that would neither last long nor likely be worth the cost of doing it.
By the way. Have you ever shopped at a Dollar Store? If you have, then you noticed that a high percentage of what they sell is name brand, quality merchandise, and not always at a price point significantly lower (different) than the same product at other stores when on sale.
Sorry, Simon. The "Made in China" excuse simply will not float. I could prolong this by mentioning a list of items as long as your arm that are of first quality and dependable and fully or partially made in China--- and likely withing 100 feet of where you are sitting. However, what had been a helpful discussion of specific examples (in most cases) of poor MRC decoder quality seems to be morphing into the same old rigid MRC bashing.
I've never defended MRC decoders and don't intend to do so now. My experience is limited, but at least positive. I will say, however, that when it comes to continuing to produce poor quality products, I still don't get it. And, 'cheap' is not the answer.
mreagantSorry, Simon. The "Made in China" excuse simply will not float
Why not? If you subcontract your manufacturing out, half way around the world, it takes far more diligence with quality control on the part of the importer than if you make them yourself in your own facility.
Of course it is possible to get high quality product from China, but it requires significant oversight and careful selection of supplier to achieve it. In many cases it requires an investment in inspection and testing back here in the US. It seems to me that MRC has failed to get a handle on the complex issue of subcontracted manufacture, especially when they are clearly aiming at the "cheap" end of the market.
For what it is worth, I own exactly 1 MRC sound decoder. I purchased it because it was cheap, to go into one of my young son's Geep. It has never gone up in smoke and continues to function. About every 2 months or so, I have to completely reset it as it fails to respond to commands. Once reset it will work fine for a a few weeks. I have never had to reset a sound decoder from QSI, Soundtraxx or Locsound.
mreagant I will say, however, that when it comes to continuing to produce poor quality products, I still don't get it. And, 'cheap' is not the answer.
Assuming you accept that this is the case, then it can only be incompetence, or indifference or perhaps it is the actual strategy of the company. "Cheap" very well can be the answer. If getting the low price means cutting corners in production and testing and accepting a certain failure rate, then cheap would be the answer. I am willing to bet that the vocal element here represents and over-sample of failed units. However, as can be clearly seen from the so called "rigid MRC bashing" that it has had a profoundly negative impact on the companies reputation. It may well take years for them to overcome this. To be fair to MRC, it looks very much like they are getting their act together on the DCC command side of things. Though I would contend that even this has not gone totally smoothly.
everybody swears by tsunami ,i was at the hobby shop the other day and do they make these decoders for n scale steam ,because these things were huge the price was just to much, i could buy another engine for the price of that decoder. i use digitrax and mrc for about five years and have not had any problems
Well, to each his own. Some people drive M-B´s and some drive Yugo´s. Who is to say that one or the other is correct? If you can spend the money, buy good (expensive) quality, otherwise buy cheap that will (possibly) be more expensive in the long run.
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rustycouplerdo they make these decoders for n scale steam
I have come to the conclusion that being a lousy as MRC decoders are there is only one good thing, they can only get better, how they can they get any worse is beyond me.
As far as outsourcing products made in China one must speak in generalities yes there are a few good quality manufactures in China but for the most part their products are even below sub-standard. They do not know what the meaning of the word "clean room" is when it comes to electronics and their manufacturing standards are virtually non existent not to mention zero worker safety standards in place. in today's market for the most part China = JUNK!
jbinkley60 cacole I purchased five of the original MRC decoders way back when. Four of them went up in smoke within three or four minutes, and the MRC decoder in a Walthers Trainline F7 that MRC was offering as decoder equipped was dead on arrival. The one good MRC decoder was put into the F7, but it too burned out in a couple of hours. Last year, after shunning any and all MRC products, I decided to give them the benefit of the doubt and purchased a Sounder Diesel Sound Decoder. It was totally dead on arrival and would not make any sounds at all other than an occasional clicking. When I contacted MRC about their warranty and explained that the decoder hadn't been installed in anything because it was DOA, they offered to waive their normal $10 service fee. When I got it back, it appeared that some kindergarten child had attempted to replace several surface mount components. The decoder gets too hot to touch and begins to smell of scorching plastic within less than one minute. I will never install it and will never, ever, purchase another MRC decoder. I have passed up on purchasing several Athearn Genesis locomotives because they contained MRC decoders. It seems that Athearn has finally realized that the MRC decoders were hurting their sales and have decided to switch brands. I preordered a Genesis yesterday at my LHS because it will have the new Tsunami decoder in it.
My SD45-2 with a factory installed Soundtraxx Tsunami came in today. The unit itself has a very nice paint job, details and looks great. Typical Genesis quality. I downloaded the manuals from Athearn's website. The decoders look pretty full featured, from the manuals, but I haven't compared them to the standard Tsunamis that you can buy and use for upgrades. I'll put this unit on the layout tomorrow and provide more feedback.
General motors appeared for all intents and purposes to be a successful company but as we all know they filed bankruptcy now didn't they. Many a good company has gone under because of the advice of the bean counters were taken as gospel. All these guys see is the bottom line and increased profits when they outsource their products to places like China and Malaysia etc. they care nothing about product reliability or culpability when it comes to making a product worth the price they charge. In general it's Screw the public who buys our stuff and think only about the stock holders or board of directors. MRC sells other products besides dcc decoders but you can bet your bottom dollar that if they follow the same business model with their other products as they do with their decoders they won't be long for this world, especially in this economic climate
jbinkley60 jbinkley60 cacole I purchased five of the original MRC decoders way back when. Four of them went up in smoke within three or four minutes, and the MRC decoder in a Walthers Trainline F7 that MRC was offering as decoder equipped was dead on arrival. The one good MRC decoder was put into the F7, but it too burned out in a couple of hours. Last year, after shunning any and all MRC products, I decided to give them the benefit of the doubt and purchased a Sounder Diesel Sound Decoder. It was totally dead on arrival and would not make any sounds at all other than an occasional clicking. When I contacted MRC about their warranty and explained that the decoder hadn't been installed in anything because it was DOA, they offered to waive their normal $10 service fee. When I got it back, it appeared that some kindergarten child had attempted to replace several surface mount components. The decoder gets too hot to touch and begins to smell of scorching plastic within less than one minute. I will never install it and will never, ever, purchase another MRC decoder. I have passed up on purchasing several Athearn Genesis locomotives because they contained MRC decoders. It seems that Athearn has finally realized that the MRC decoders were hurting their sales and have decided to switch brands. I preordered a Genesis yesterday at my LHS because it will have the new Tsunami decoder in it. My SD45-2 with a factory installed Soundtraxx Tsunami came in today. The unit itself has a very nice paint job, details and looks great. Typical Genesis quality. I downloaded the manuals from Athearn's website. The decoders look pretty full featured, from the manuals, but I haven't compared them to the standard Tsunamis that you can buy and use for upgrades. I'll put this unit on the layout tomorrow and provide more feedback.
The unit is finely detailed.
You can see the silver tips on the MU hoses, the handrails and grab irons are very fine and not overly sized, the fans have see through grills and the cab windows actually slide. Missing though are ditchlights and sunshades.
I placed the unit on the programming track. This Tsunami decoder is the first decoder that I could not read back the CVs with my Digitrax Super Chief system on the programming track or in Ops mode. Aside from that programming was straightfoward (ignoring the lack of CV readback). I assigned the unit its 4 digit 1701 address and set CV29 to 34. This was done in Ops mode by selecting the default 03 unit address.
The sound on these units is unique. It is very clear and has good volume. The horns and sounds are all very good, but I like the QSI recordings slightly better. Overall a huge step up from the MRC decoders.
The unit runs smoothly. Out of the box it has a fairly linear speed curve. Without the CV readback working I couldn't easily fire up JMRI to do some adjustements and have a little more control at the low end. Overall a nice unit. I applaud Athearn with the new Tsunami decoders. At some point in the near future I'll invest ion a Power Pax unit to allow CV readbacks. If it wasn't for this issue and the missing ditchlights, I'd give this unit an excellent rating. But I'll have to rate it behind the Atlas Gold units but can still recommend it as a solid addition to your roster.