I’ve noticed a lot of “tension” lately between DCC modelers and DC modelers. And tension is a wee bit of an understatement. I’ve seen it drawn down and out to downright yelling matches in real life. It not a pretty sight.
First off I think it’s important to remember we are ALL in the same boat. We are all modelers. We all love trains. What we are disagreeing upon is the best way to setup and run a layout.
I can see the persistence of hardcore DC’s. “My layout has run fine for years. I’m not going to switch. All this DCC is hooey balooey and not needed.” I can understand their reluctance. A lot of them have spent a lot of time, money, and effort into their masterfully built DC layouts. And many are at such an advanced age, they don’t want to deal with the cost and initial complexities of DCC. This is all greatly understandable.
But then there’s the flipside. A lot of new people entering the hobby are buying DCC ready and equipped engines. And DCC offers a lot of benefits. It means the end to complicated wiring for CTC, and control blocks. You no longer have to flip switches, or push buttons to get a block powered. You can run a switcher right up to an engine and break down a train without having to worry about blocks. You no longer have to be an engineer to create custom circuits. There’s no more long runs of multiple wires for multiple blocks. You can get sound. You can adjust one engine to run with another engine peacefully in a consist, even if they have different gearing. You can get prototypical lighting like ditch lights that flash at grade crossings.
Bachmann Spectrum only offers dual mode DC/DCC tsunami sound decoders now Atlas gold line comes standard with QSI DCC sound installed. And Athearn Gensis comes standard with MRC Brilliance installed. Bowser Executive line comes with DCC /Loksound installed. Atlas Gold line comes with QSI DCC installed. The vast majority of BLI/PCM comes with sound installed. Lifelife/Walthers, Kato, offer DCC and DCC ready models. Even the lowly Bachmann standard line has DCC decoders installed standard. You can pick up a GP30 with DCC installed for <$30.00. One thing is for sure however: DCC equipped engines do not run as well on DC based layouts as they do DCC based layouts. Not only are you loosing features the modeler paid for, but they require higher starting voltage. And if you run sound, forget about getting any kind of decent speed out of 12Volts with some engines. Of the 27 DCC steam engines I have, 4 run with decent prototypical speed on DC. Of the 6 DCC Diesels I have, 0 run at prototypical speed.
I can see why a number of DC modelers are getting nervous. They are slowly being herded down the road to DCC if they like it or not. I can understand why some of them feel like they are under attack.
Now as a DCC modeler, I want to say this to you DC guys:
“We are not attacking DC as a wrong choice you made. If you don’t want to upgrade, that’s perfectly fine by us. We will probably agree that DCC switchover from older personal DC layouts is not in everyone’s best interest. Certain DC circuits/turnouts may not work well with DCC. However we DCC modelers do like the simplicity and features DCC provides us over DC. If you are starting a layout today, and have more than 1 train, then DCC really does make sense for most.
But please remember in the end, “WE ARE NOT AT WAR WITH ONE ANOTHER. WE ARE ALL MODEL RAILROADERS AND SHARE A SIMILAR APPRECIATION OF TRAINS. If anything DCC is helping keep the hobby alive with new features, and simplified wiring for new modelers to help keep them interested in the hobby.”
Cheers,
-D
Don - Specializing in layout DC->DCC conversions
Modeling C&O transition era and steel industries There's Nothing Like Big Steam!
davidmbedard Agreed. Also, I have noticed DCC wooing back people who have left the hobby in the past. It offers and delivers what made them leave the hobby.......whatever that may be. David B
Agreed.
Also, I have noticed DCC wooing back people who have left the hobby in the past. It offers and delivers what made them leave the hobby.......whatever that may be.
David B
People leave a hobby because they are frustrated by it. When something comes along to either relieve or eliminate the frustration they might just come back.
Sure DC is easy (or so some folks say) but divinding your track into train length blocks and needing set the toggles to get your train around the layout gets old very fast. DCC eliminates that and allows you to run one particular locomotive or consist of locomotives while other run different ones so much easier at least in my opinion. However if you want to run DC only far be it from me to criticize your choice.
Irv
OK, I agree as well, and in the thread that started all this, I even said for a layout with different goals from the ONE I am building, I would likely choose DCC.
I will take advice from David and avoid comparisons as much as possible. Although when questions are asked in a comparison manner, what's one to do?
So, let me say this to Irv and a few others who have certain preconceptions or misconceptions about DC based on what they have seen or done in the past.
What would you say if said my DC layout has:
Wireless radio throttles with only five large easy to use buttons.
Momentum, constant lighting, very smooth control and slow speed.
NO block toggles or rotary switches and only about 1/4 of the control switches (lighted push buttons actually) of any kind from what you would expect with DC.
AND those control switches are always right where you want/need them as you walk around with your train. Yet they are also duplicated on that central panel if you desire.
Turnout route control that is one touch route selective for even complex yards or interlockings and lights up to show you the complete route selected.
AND, even though it is DC Cab control, it has built in protection against colisions or overrunning your section (block).
And, that by simply installing what has been discribed so far, you were half way to a signal system or CTC system or both.
That with the simple addition at this point of detectors, signals and a little wire, you would have very nice signal system.
Well its been done, and most of it is not new. But this version/combination of these features might well be and I think it should be shared with those who might be interested.
AND, the turnout control/signaling component is completely DCC friendly and very simple and afordable.
Sheldon
We need Obvious Man here. It is all male generated and has been since the beginning of time.
Of course, we geezers have a way of keeping it going.
Lets get back to model railroading.
Rich
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL AND, even though it is DC Cab control, it has built in protection against colisions or overrunning your section (block).
You'd think so. :) One of the guys at my club said the other day he actually witnessed a couple guys manage to have a head-on collision several years ago on a DC layout. They were meeting at a siding, one overran the siding switch and they met right at the block boundary. :)
Chris van der Heide
My Algoma Central Railway Modeling Blog
cv_acrYou'd think so. :) One of the guys at my club said the other day he actually witnessed a couple guys manage to have a head-on collision several years ago on a DC layout. They were meeting at a siding, one overran the siding switch and they met right at the block boundary. :)
That's funny - but my system uses automatic buffer zones, that require no extra wiring, making even that very difficult to do. By not using common rail, having seperate power supplies for each cab and staggering rail gaps, two sections (the word block is really a signal term) must be on the same cab or the section between the gaps is effectively dead to either train. No crashes, no "who's got my train".
And the only thing extra that cost was planning!
Sheldon,
It sounds like you have a decent system for existing DC layouts. But can your system do this:
1. Pull units F-7A / B (BLI) 1514, 1518 out of the engine shop
2. Move said units up to a sanding tower and refueling station
3. Pull another F-7A (Hobbytown), 1524 out of yard, and lash that up to 1514/1518. (You have a big load that day to haul over the mountain) This will be "extra 524" for the day.
4. Pull Train # 9524 into the service yard on the adjoining track
5. Move out of the service facility now you are loaded up at the same speed for a given throttle setting
6. Pull it into a yard to be loaded up. Have a switcher load and unload various tracks and pull up close to your A-B-A Extra 524.
7. Now pull the load onto the main and have the throttle semi regulated so the different motors in the different engines play well together (ie: one isn't dragging the other two)
8. You are now crossing a grade. Have your ditch lights come on as you cross the gate crossing. Have them turn off automatically as you pass the crossing
9. Have your engine arrive as it's destination point and semi-breakdown the train. Have an industry switcher get near your train and remove or add cars. Since yard switchers move slowly, have them move at a consistant crawl without stalling due to voltage variations in the track.
10. Is PWM DC power packs compatible with sound locos or DCC equipped locos like the Bachmann GP30?
You will need power routing turnouts and blocks. There is just no two ways about it. This means more wiring and headcahes. And you can't speed match DC locos. Even my 3 Athearn Genesis F-7s run at different speeds for the same throttle setting.
Now lets have some real fun:
Lets add in prototypical lighting Rule 17. How about protypical lighting when in a consist? How about prototypical sound. How about auto ditch lights with a horn when crossing a grade? How about an automatic whistle when changing grades to let the brakeman know? How about only having the lead engine in a consist play horns/bells? How about being able to consistantly CRAWL at one speed (3 smph or even less!) without stalling, speeding up, or slowing down?
Now are we running trains on a layout, or is the layout running the trains? Which sounds more prototypical for operation?
You need no more booster/breakers than you do with regular DC. If you short in DCC, you're going to short in DC. And that means all trains will stop, DC or DCC. So that section needs to be isolated if there is that risk.
Again if you already have DC, then DCC might not be for you. But DCC definitely offers real advantages to a new modeler and shouldn't be blown off.
"There's a war a bruin" ...there's a war about bears??
Stephen Colbert must be behind it.
I sense trouble a-brewin'.
I said it in a previous post that has been deleted. DCC is a fabulous invention.
But it is not for everyone. I have a life time roster of HO locomotves. Since I don't need any of the wonderful features that DCC has to offer, I also don't need to spend the humongous money to put decoders in them. It is never going to happen. I got news for you guys it ain't just $15.00 an engine. Add in the sound and the installation cost and it is way too expensive.
This is not a war. The problem comes from those who answer every question that DCC is the only way to solve the problem. The inference is that DC operators are either stupid or uniformed. I for one prefer to invest my available resources in the acquisition of the additional motive power and rolling stock that I need to complete my roster of New Haven equipment.
I have recently acquired two NH I-5 Shoreliners. They are DC/DCC units. I have also purchased the Quantum Engineer to operate them. As soon as I get my test oval constructed I will be able to evaluate them as far as control and sound characterisitics.
Incidently, since my first HO layout in 1948 I have operated ABBA FT and AA PA consists with no problems whatever, so DCC is definitely is not a must to accomplish that.
To be honest with you DCC zealots, I have been reading this forum since it was established. It makes DCC look like a nightmare to me. Gee, I just have to put a train on the track and it runs.
BigRustyBut it is not for everyone. I have a life time roster of HO locomotves. Since I don't need any of the wonderful features that DCC has to offer, I also don't need to spend the humongous money to put decoders in them. It is never going to happen. I got news for you guys it ain't just $15.00 an engine. Add in the sound and the installation cost and it is way too expensive.
Thanks for not being sour with us DCC'ers Rusty. If DC works for you, then I'm all for it.
BTW: Love the hat. :-D
Actually, the way my yard/engine terminal is layed out, I can come pretty close to all that without doing much more than postioning the turnouts and pushing a button or two.
Most dual mode decoders, sound or not, run well on the Aristo PWC, admittedly the inexpsensive ones in Bachmann regular line do not like it much. But my BLI stuff runs fine.
As for ditch lights, or lighting rules, I'm just not into it.
Let me know when they defiy physics and get a 100Hz tone from two one inch speakers. While onboard sound is great in the larger scales, I have no use for it in HO. Prototypical is in your head at this point. To me those things sound like static.
I'm not blowing off DCC, its a great system, if the stuff you listed is on your want list. Not everybody's idea of model trains is this intimate experiance of being the Locomotive Engineer. DCC is really good at that, If thats what you want than DCC is what you need.
Some of us are more into building the models and see running the train as more of a rail fan experiance than a "crew" experiance, or we want both.
I use Atlas turnouts and my power routing is all done with a few relays. They are cheap on e-bay ($1 ea)or just a little more wholesale ($3 ea).
Where is your signal system? Mine is built right in, and my CTC dispatcher sets my routes and my trains roll along.
Also, I model 1954, what's a ditch light?
And locos run just as good on the TE and on any decoder.
ATLANTIC CENTRALWhere is your signal system? Mine is built right in, and my CTC dispatcher sets my routes and my trains roll along.
Well that depends on if you just want to light signal heads, or have the train stop auto stop if it runs a red as well.
You can use the same analog stuff you are using. Or you can use DCC feedback systems. It all depends on how much you want to do with it. If you want to go "whole hog" you can set up a simple block occupancy circuit that automatically "all trains stop" signal to any train that runs a red signal. And the trains will prototypically stop in a slow fashion, and not grind to a halt (which can cause derailments)
There's no reason you can't have the same CTC dispatcher for routes as your DC system. Switch machines do NOT have to be tied to DCC. So the cost is the same.
My trains stop automaticly if an operator runs a red and tries to enter a signal block he is not asigned. And, it does not effect the train or throttle in the other block. And this feature is truely free - and I have already explained how it works three or four times on this forum.
Search for the post on common rail and read my comments.
And you can do the same thing with Digitax DCC, You need a small transistor circuit, and dual pole a/b relays for each red light section. You also need 1 detection board and 1 additional booster. This additional booster and detection board will handle all the blocks. And you get prototypical stopping! No grinding to a halt.
Very true - and a great race car builder I knew years ago said "speed costs money, how fast do you want to go".
I'm going fast enough thank you.
BigRustyTo be honest with you DCC zealots, I have been reading this forum since it was established. It makes DCC look like a nightmare to me. Gee, I just have to put a train on the track and it runs.
Thankfully, Big Rusty, DCC isn't as nightmarish as it may be perceived. I've had DCC-equipped sound locomotives - like my Trix 2-8-2 Mike - that have run beautifully right out of the box on address 03.
Although I prefer DCC, I don't look down on DC or DC users. As in your case, sticking with DC is a wise move. I will agree that the "zealots" in either camp can get to be a little much sometimes.
I think in these kinds of situations, we should heed the words of the great Canadian philosopher, Red Green:
"Remember, I'm pullin' for ya'. We're all in this thing together."
(Hmmmm...or was it, "Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati"?: "When all else fails, play dead.")
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
DigitalGriffin 3. Pull another F-7A (Hobbytown), 1524 out of yard, and lash that up to 1514/1518. (You have a big load that day to haul over the mountain) This will be "extra 524" for the day. 4. Pull Train # 9524 into the service yard on the adjoining track
If your lead engine is 1524, that would be "Extra 1524, not Extra 524". (I assume that's just a typo ) And what's "Train 9524" now?
Ditch lights stay on all the time, not just for crossings. Some engines/roads set up the ditch lights to flash when the horn was blown. Many are constant-on with none of that flashing.
On the other hand, older electronics books and magazines have lots of tricks using magnets and reed switches to activate horns etc. automatically when approaching crossings. So that can be done, with a little setup.
I am interested in this discussion because it has great potential to reveal all the benefits of each way of doing things if we can keep a lid on it. As is the case in any debate on any subject, the more factual information each camp can establish, with good will on both sides leading to a nod, even if grudgingly , the result could be a highly informative and useful thread for those who know what they want to do and what they need from their layout. Their choice of operating method, or system, would then be made clear for them, and that would be a great achievement.
For me, the hobby wouldn't be where it is now had it not been for legions of determined, gritty, and experienced hobbyists who had vision and found a way to work around the limitations that DC seemed to present to them prima fascie (at first glance). Every great discovery came on the heels of the efforts of others, but it often came from one person who "got it", and not from the legions of naysayers. We should embrace new ways of doing things, even if they are troubling or seem to come from old methods or materials. And as is often the case, the melding of two ideas can often yield something far greater than each of them singly.
So, let's keep talking...and listening.
-Crandell
selector So, let's keep talking...and listening.
...and keep our sticks on the ice!!
wjstix...and keep our sticks on the ice!!
Will we get 5 for fighting?
If it starts getting too rough I'll be forced to put in the Hanson brothers....
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
rrinker If it starts getting too rough I'll be forced to put in the Hanson brothers....
Throw a bunch of teddie bears out----
Any argument carried far enough will end up in Semantics--Hartz's law of rhetoric Emerald. Leemer and Southern The route of the Sceptre Express Barry
I just started my blog site...more stuff to come...
http://modeltrainswithmusic.blogspot.ca/
Therefore, help me with this. I am slow in getting my layout started. All of my diesels are DC only. I fully realize that I can add decoders and invest in a fairly expensive DCC outift versus purchasing a reasonable transformer. But since I have only a 2 X 8 layout and I am only going to be running one diesel at a time, then are my engines going to not be able to be used because DC has the potential to be killed eventually by DCC if your thoughts are correct. If this is true, it is a sad future and a sad day for me personally.
If I chose DC as my operational process and DCC eventually kills DC, then my diesels will be eventually be non-workable in a DCC-only world. It does not seem fair.
Am I mistaken?
DigitalGriffin,There's a "War Bruin"? Um, you mean, there's a bear that's built for combat? And there shouldn't be one? Well, I think I can agree with that. I know we have the right to keep and bear arms, but I draw the line at keeping armed bears!
Oh noes! Run for your lives, it's a War Bruin!!!!
Oh, wait, you mean there's a conflict brewing between users of DC vs. DCC? Um, I'm sorry. That's different. I now return you to your regular on topic discussion...
Paul A. Cutler III*******************Weather Or No Go New Haven*******************
I don't see why there shouldn't be a market that could handle both. It would have to come down to imaginative research and marketing. And then maybe an open frame type of system may come along different in kind and then we'd see the same discussions ag'in---
wcu, I think you can relax. DC will be available for perhaps a couple of decades yet, and maybe many more. Even DCC will be supplanted in time, maybe even sooner. Something new always comes along and is sufficiently attractive to a critical mass of a market that it takes on a life of its own.
And for what it's worth, DC should suffice very nicely for the layout you describe. Once you introduce a new non-mu'd engine to the same layout without making any changes to your wiring and gaps, that is when you might want to take the leap to DCC. Even then, not necessarily.
DigitalGriffin,Sorry, sorry. I just couldn't resist the humor in the topic header. It was just too much, and I just had to have some fun!
Ahem, right...back to DC vs. DCC.
The "tension" has existed on the 'net for at least 10 years, and probably goes back to when mainstream DCC systems came out back in 1993. This is nothing new. Heck, in the first few days of this very DCC forum's existance, there was a humdinger of a discussion between factions. I've heard of tensions in clubs that got pretty bad, but then you're talking about clubs (we once had a long meeting talking about what kind of doors to install at our new club).
I think a problem in a lot of these discussions that get heated is that many (not all) pro-DC'ers have never even tried DCC let alone built a DCC layout. Some just don't have any experience, they only know from what they read and from what others tell them. They don't study it nor use it every day (why would they?), so they don't really know what it can and cannot do, how much it costs, etc. A lot of my reponses to these sorts of threads are based on correcting bad information.There's also a lot of pride in doing it yourself. DCC really doesn't offer that...it's mostly plug-n-play. DC, OTOH, is almost exclusively done in a unique fashion. There's a lot of pride built into these complicated DC layouts, in keeping them running, etc. It could take hours of studying a problem to come up with a fix, then hours more wiring up a solution, then more time to work out the bugs and the operational difficulties as well. Getting it all to run well, and look good, takes a lot of work. DCC, however, can accomplish more than what complicated DC layouts offer (in most cases) just by hooking up two wires and away you go.
Why do I say the above? Because prior to 1998, I used to be very anti-DCC and pro-DC. I ran trains in my club's ca. 1953 DC layout, and yes, I took pride in getting 40 year old tech. to work right. It wowed me to see all the things we had to do just to get a train running, and after I mastered it, it gave me a little thrill to know that I was one of the few that could actually do it and do it well. It was a learned skill, and I liked knowing it. I also didn't know much about DCC, and almost every reason I ever had against DCC was explained away when I actually started asking questions and listening to the answers.
I will say that for one-operator/one-train layouts, DCC is probably not for you. But once you starting adding people or trains, DCC should be strongly considered as the first option.
Sheldon,In response to your questions:1) Wireless w/ 5 buttons: Um, I prefer knobs to buttons. I've used the Crest Train Engineer, and my thumb got tired after a while especially when switching (the buttons are hard plastic). I also like having a digital display so I know what's going on with my train with just a glance.
2) DCC does all that (momentum, lighting, etc.), and it's all adjustable for every loco on the fly.
3) Um, my DCC layout has no block toggles of any sort.
4) DCC switch controls can either be thrown locally, controlled by a PC, controlled by analog devices through a PC, or thrown by the throttle. Routes can also be thrown the same way.
5) Hitting a dead block is hardly realistic, and in any event it's not much of a concern on my double track mainline.
I'm not saying your ideas don't have merit because they do, but about the only place where DCC doesn't do as well is in comparison to detection and signalling, and that's only because there needs to be a lot more invested to get it to run 100% realistically (by that I mean a PC, detectors, signal cards, etc.).
BigRusty,Few (if any) have ever said that DCC is for everyone. I do think that DCC is the best control system (but not the only system), and that everybody should at least look at it when building a new layout.
BTW, why did you throw sound into this? This is what drives pro-DCC guys like me batty. DCC decoders cost $15 or less in bulk. DCC sound is an option, not a requirement. One could also put sound in DC locos decades ago (PFM anyone?), but one would hardly put that into any cost consideration for DC. So why do it for DCC? Imagine if I said, "Add in the sound and the installation cost for DC locos and it is way too expensive." It just doesn't hold up.
I think most pro-DCC people respond with "DCC is the best answer", not that it's the only answer. Sure, there are some out there that are just too excited and want everyone to have DCC, but then there are those that think that DC is more realistic than DCC, so it all evens out.
You say you bought the Quantum Engineer... Why? You just said you'd rather spend your money on buying more New Haven equipment (an honorable act, of course!). Buying a QE goes against that philosophy of buying more equipment over "bells and whistles", doesn't it? BTW, just for giggles, I know a "brass hat" in the NHRHTA bought 10 BLI I-5's, if you can imagine that. Cheesh. I only have one.
In your ABBA sets, how did you assemble them in the yard? Even B units had hostler controls unless they were drawbarred. At my old club, we had to park an engine so the coupler was over the block break, then drive the other loco over to it to make the hitch (but many guys would just push them together with their hands...tut, tut). With DCC, the consist can be made anywhere.
DCC is only a nightmare if one is impatient with technology. When I started to learn DCC, I found that most of my problems were caused by my errors in not reading the manual or understanding the terms.
Paul3...I will say that for one-operator/one-train layouts, DCC is probably not for you...
TONY
"If we never take the time, how can we ever have the time." - Merovingian (Matrix Reloaded)
Paul,
Again I think we agree on most points. One exception is that I have run a fair amount of DCC and still don't care much for it.
Yes, I would rather "roll my own" than buy and play. It has always been a "building" hobby for me, not a buying or collecting one. The time spend programing decoders alone is totaly unapealing to me. And, I have already expressed my desire for my layout to be my work. I like a certain amount of the social side of the hobby, but I do not want my layout to be a team project or be dependant on others. For one thing I do not plan to live in the same area for ever and help for those tasks I dislike may not always be at hand.
I was not sure I would like the pushbuttons on the TE either, I was so hesitant about that and other aspects I would not even spend the $150 on one to try it out. I found a guy to lend me one first. I played with it for a week than bought eight of them.
I understand why you might not care for the buttons on the Aristo, why is it so hard for others in this discussion to understand that I don't care for the endless wheel knobs on the DT400 or the small hard to read icons or the close spacing of the tinny buttoms?
I agree, hitting a dead track section is not realistic, but it is just a fail safe for operator error, not a operational practice. A fail safe that is free.
One thing that did get lost in the orginal post that should be repeated now - I have installed my system on a layout other than my own. Here is that story. One member of our local group has a basement sized layout that depicts a 1900 era eastern logging operation. His control system was the typical tower cab control with rotary switches and teathered throttles and panels at each town/passing siding. As I explained my proposed system he became interested. He had rejected the idea DCC for two reasons, his fleet of about 40 locos are mostly old, brass, small. Now we all konw it can be done, but we also know its not like plugging them in a Bachmann tender either. While he may have the skills, he lacked the desire to do these decoder installs, and paying for it would be a major added expense.
Additionally, his trackwork is all older power routed turnouts, not very DCC friendly, code 70 rail. Lots of work to rework that for DCC.
He asked what it would take to install my system and how it would work, I explained it, devepoled a plan for his layout and we did it. It works very well. He does not have detecton or signaling and we stayed with the existing method of ground throws for the turnouts. That did require installing ground throws with electrical contacts on about 20 turnouts. We built new control panels and went from 6-12 "blocks" per panel to just two "sections" in most cases. Most wiring drops from the track where easily cut loose from the old system and connected to my prebuilt relay panels. Only a very few track modifications (just moving a few gaps actually) where needed.
He now has a four cab system for the main line and two additional ones for his dual guage branch. It works well, all the members of our group (many use DCC) like operating it and find it easy to use, and operation flexiblity is way better than before, even if its not quite like DCC.
The train Engineer throttles have been VERY reliable with no droped signals or range/command problems. The performence of EVERY loco on the layout have imporved to DCC like smoothness with the Pulse Width Control of the TE.
The cost was about the same as a DCC conversion would have been. And if we assume he might have paid for many of those decoder installs it was less.
Remember, he did NOT do any signaling. I will admitt that my system is only slighly less expensvie than DCC, if at all, wihout signaling. But the installation of the system, especially in its advanced forms with turnout controls, is an intigraded signal/detection/control system similar to those built years ago by Ed Ravenscroft or Bruce Chubb - BUT with wireless walk around throttles and can easily be built for less than a comparable DCC system with a similar signaling system. And I agree you get less, but that only a problem if you want/need those things your not getting.
The bottom line is that this person is very happy with the improvements to his layout, happy not using a computer to program decoders, happy to have not had to install any decoders in his brass shays and spent no more, maybe a little less than he would have with DCC.