davidmbedard Lets be clear here on 2 fronts... 1. JMRI is the standard to which all other programming software is compared to. QSI CV manager and MRC -whatever- fall way short in their ability to program comparred to JMRI. Not to mention that QSI only has QSI decoders in their database and MRC only has MRC decoders in their database....JMRI has every single decoder ever produced covered. Note that the MRC computer connection is NOT compatable with JMRI and the QSI programmer is. 2. MRC has a history of mis-leading, mis-guided products and advertisements. They are exagerative and underhanded. The fact that they never live up to what they promise is why they still are way behind when it comes to decoder and system technology. Their latest ad featured 3 clubs (only 3) that are using MRC products exclusively......yay for MRC! I still cannot recommend MRC products based on #2 and cannot recommend the programmer because of #1. David B
Lets be clear here on 2 fronts...
1. JMRI is the standard to which all other programming software is compared to. QSI CV manager and MRC -whatever- fall way short in their ability to program comparred to JMRI. Not to mention that QSI only has QSI decoders in their database and MRC only has MRC decoders in their database....JMRI has every single decoder ever produced covered. Note that the MRC computer connection is NOT compatable with JMRI and the QSI programmer is.
2. MRC has a history of mis-leading, mis-guided products and advertisements. They are exagerative and underhanded. The fact that they never live up to what they promise is why they still are way behind when it comes to decoder and system technology. Their latest ad featured 3 clubs (only 3) that are using MRC products exclusively......yay for MRC!
I still cannot recommend MRC products based on #2 and cannot recommend the programmer because of #1.
David B
On the other hand if someone is bound and determined to buy an MRC DCC system or decoder, maybe the best lesson is to do so. At some point hammering away on something which is already well known but not always accepted may be a futile effort that is best resolved via folks finding out the hard way.
Engineer Jeff NS Nut Visit my layout at: http://www.thebinks.com/trains/
NSColsMP6As for the "not close to JMRI". You're comparing the abilities of a little baby (v1.1 software) to an adolescent (v2.6 software) at least.
As for the "not close to JMRI". You're comparing the abilities of a little baby (v1.1 software) to an adolescent (v2.6 software) at least.
But isn't better, well, just better, regardless of the age/version? Simply stating that one piece of software may have a reason for not being close ("baby" vs "adolescent") doesn't do anything to close the gap between the two.
Not to mention that MRC themselves are inviting the comparison. From their Web site: "If any of you are using JMRI please let us know if you agree that ours is easier to use."
NSColsMP6 but if anyone knows of someone using JMRI in Columbus, OH I'd like to get in touch so I can see how they're using it for comparison.
but if anyone knows of someone using JMRI in Columbus, OH I'd like to get in touch so I can see how they're using it for comparison.
Ask on the JMRI group. They're usually very helpful: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jmriusers/
There's also a Frappr site for JMRI users, although it seems to be having problems right now: http://www.frappr.com/jmriusers
NSColsMP6 The point WAS to illustrate that this was the first thread that I found when I searched for the subject and while the information may have been the latest and greatest *at the time*, it ultimately turned out to be incorrect and fairly biased.
The point WAS to illustrate that this was the first thread that I found when I searched for the subject and while the information may have been the latest and greatest *at the time*, it ultimately turned out to be incorrect and fairly biased.
No, it didn't turn out to be incorrect. The facts changed since it was posted. It's 100% accurate in the context of the time at which it was originally written, and I provided a link to back that up.
NSColsMP6 Stevert That the prices have dropped so much in the past seven months makes me even more wary of MRC as a DCC vendor. Did they misjudge their production costs so badly? Or are the trying to compensate for the outcries from the DCC community about how expensive their computer adapters were as compared to everyone else? I have to think there's more to their price drops than simply "healthy competition" So if people complain that a competitor offers a better product for a lesser price, and a company adjusts it's prices to compensate (perhaps by offering a less mature product at a lesser price?) then wouldn't that indicate that the competition is *working*? If you "think there's more to their price drops" than that, I'm all ears. I find conspiracy theories entertaining if nothing else. Seems that the "healthy competition" of pricing their product where it will actually sell when compared with existing competitors is the simplest explanation for what has happened.
Stevert That the prices have dropped so much in the past seven months makes me even more wary of MRC as a DCC vendor. Did they misjudge their production costs so badly? Or are the trying to compensate for the outcries from the DCC community about how expensive their computer adapters were as compared to everyone else? I have to think there's more to their price drops than simply "healthy competition"
That the prices have dropped so much in the past seven months makes me even more wary of MRC as a DCC vendor. Did they misjudge their production costs so badly? Or are the trying to compensate for the outcries from the DCC community about how expensive their computer adapters were as compared to everyone else? I have to think there's more to their price drops than simply "healthy competition"
So if people complain that a competitor offers a better product for a lesser price, and a company adjusts it's prices to compensate (perhaps by offering a less mature product at a lesser price?) then wouldn't that indicate that the competition is *working*?
If you "think there's more to their price drops" than that, I'm all ears. I find conspiracy theories entertaining if nothing else.
Seems that the "healthy competition" of pricing their product where it will actually sell when compared with existing competitors is the simplest explanation for what has happened.
Nobody said anything about a conspiracy. I was simply speculating on why the prices dropped by roughly 66% over six or seven months. I still think that's more than normal competition would dictate, unless, like I said, they misjudged either their production costs or what the market would bear. And yes, I'd be wary of a company that has that much trouble estimating their market. They seem to have a history of that, just do some searches (here and elsewhere) on their decoders that don't support CV readback "because nobody needs it".
NSColsMP6 Without Digitrax, and NCE and JMRI competing in the market space - who knows what we'd be paying for computer interfaces or if we'd have retail versions available at all. :)
Without Digitrax, and NCE and JMRI competing in the market space - who knows what we'd be paying for computer interfaces or if we'd have retail versions available at all. :)
Sorry, but JMRI is not "competing in the market space". It's hardware-agnostic freeware that compliments model railroads (including non-DCC layouts), and tries very hard to avoid stepping on the toes of other MRR software packages.
Steve
NSColsMP6 ...When I compared with Digitrax, it seemed that there was no wireless option. The wired interface was about $5 less up front - but their site suggests a "not extensively tested" adapter from a 3rd party, that brings the net cost about $13 higher than the Prodigy computer interface...
jalajoie I did test it and found it does not come close to JMRI. The software lacks seriously in functionalities, I found it useless and would rather use Digitrax PR3/JMRI combo. That topic was previously discussed : http://cs.trains.com/trccs/forums/t/151271.aspx?PageIndex=1
I did test it and found it does not come close to JMRI. The software lacks seriously in functionalities, I found it useless and would rather use Digitrax PR3/JMRI combo.
That topic was previously discussed : http://cs.trains.com/trccs/forums/t/151271.aspx?PageIndex=1
Thanks for the topic referral - I look forward to reading it in detail later.
The point of my post was NOT to assert whose software is *better* for all users and all types of layouts. I intend to check out the MRC software soon - but if anyone knows of someone using JMRI in Columbus, OH I'd like to get in touch so I can see how they're using it for comparison.
NSColsMP6Stevert If you want a computer interface, you need to convert to wireless (and pay dearly for it!)" I know Steve's post was old and may have been before this information was available, but it should be noted that in hindsight, it seems that the fears that MRC was forcing people to go wireless at great expense were inaccurate - and in fact those who choose to be wired are saving money over the competition.
Stevert If you want a computer interface, you need to convert to wireless (and pay dearly for it!)"
If you want a computer interface, you need to convert to wireless (and pay dearly for it!)"
I know Steve's post was old and may have been before this information was available, but it should be noted that in hindsight, it seems that the fears that MRC was forcing people to go wireless at great expense were inaccurate - and in fact those who choose to be wired are saving money over the competition.
Yes, it was an old post - January 18th, to be exact.
But in hindsight, foresight, and whatever other sight, my statement was accurate at the time it was made.
As a matter of fact, if you check the Wayback Machine, you'll find that at least as of February 14th, MRC had only two very expensive, wireless computer interfaces listed.
One for users without wireless that would convert them. It's listed price was $269.98. The other one was for users who already had wireless, and was priced at $179.98. That, my friend, is paying dearly!
The software can be downloaded from MRC web site. It can be tested without the hardware interface.
Jack W.
Hmm, when I look at the computer interface options on the MRC site it seems that you don't need to convert to wireless. Seems like a wired connection is around $50, for people who already have wireless that option is $20 more, and if you want wireless but don't already have the wireless "dongle" it's $25 more.
To me, paying $25 for a wireless dongle that I imagine would also allow the use of more wireless throttles than I can afford, doesn't qualfy as "paying dearly".
As for paying $20 more fore wireless than a cable - that doesn't seem horiffic either. A wirless Xbox 360 controller costs about $10 more than a wired one. When I compared with Digitrax, it seemed that there was no wireless option. The wired interface was about $5 less up front - but their site suggests a "not extensively tested" adapter from a 3rd party, that brings the net cost about $13 higher than the Prodigy computer interface.
Another poster mentioned concerns with fine tuning locomotives from a desktop machine upstairs. I'm not sure the MRC wireless system would reach that far - but I'd imagine that the majority of people would use wireless with a computer that is still fairly close to the layout. I intend to use it with a laptop - and tiny netbooks are getting to be in the $200 price range.
So what to some might be technology that interfaces with a clunky old desktop in the bedroom might enable me to have a state of the art wireless touch-screen controller (Forecasts seem to indicate that ASUS netbooks will have touch-screen Tablet PC functionality this fall). And all for maybe $100 more than a Digitrax DT402R.
Seems like some healthy competition to me.
Well RRRinker, you may be correct on the price point in some ways but in terms of their so-called simplicity? If you bring customers in through that avenue then---
Beta vs VHS? Blue-Ray vs HD? All the same problem---the market tends to favour more open platforms---if MRC refuses to deal with this in a more open manner then it will be attempt # 4---or is it #5?---for them.
Any argument carried far enough will end up in Semantics--Hartz's law of rhetoric Emerald. Leemer and Southern The route of the Sceptre Express Barry
I just started my blog site...more stuff to come...
http://modeltrainswithmusic.blogspot.ca/
Honestly I don;t even see that they are luring people in with low prices, not since they've done away witht he really bad early systems they sold. Prodigy series components aren't inexpensive compared to other brands - heck their fascia panels are twice the cost of what NCE and Digitrax charge. Th eonly difference is MRC uses an 8 pin RJ45 jacka nd the others uses a 6 pin RJ12. That certainly doesn;t double the cost.
The other thing that disturbs me is the absolute lack of any technical information on the system and how it works. There are plenty of things that would be good to know after you master the basics to help you get more out of the system. Of course that might conflict with their marketing plan that it's so simple you don't need a manual.
Have ot admit, they seem to know their customer base - small layout operators who probably have MRC DC power packs and want to convert. I haven't heard of anyone with a full basement layout with a dozen operators using MRC to run it. Those layouts are almost always without fail NCE or Digitrax.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Maybe the whole idea is so that MRC ties the customer to their product----everything is in house hence the customer has no choice but to jump ship----I've heard people talk about 'defecting(?sp?) from them a lot. How convenient to the bottom line---hook them in with low prices----
I've heard some up here try the pkg but again---issues---and lots of them----that was why my wife got me my NCE pkg
MRC's attitude on working with JMRI reminds me of Steve Job's of Apple attitude and computer software openess. It seems MRC is cutting off there own nose. Being open to JMRI would expand there market by a lot even with thier high cost unit.
rrinker Just to be clear, it's all driven from the JMRI side. Peopel contributing code to the project create the bits needed to make it work with various DCC systems. Of course, this requires the manufacturer to open up their interface system so that the programmers can actually write said code - and MRC has pretty much told Bob Jacobsen "no thanks". Their loss. The tinfoil hat side of me wonders what they are hiding... --Randy
Just to be clear, it's all driven from the JMRI side. Peopel contributing code to the project create the bits needed to make it work with various DCC systems. Of course, this requires the manufacturer to open up their interface system so that the programmers can actually write said code - and MRC has pretty much told Bob Jacobsen "no thanks". Their loss. The tinfoil hat side of me wonders what they are hiding...
I don't know that their closed interface is so much that they're hiding anything, as it is another example of their arrogance:
"You don't need CV readback. You don't need any software except ours. If you want a computer interface, you need to convert to wireless (and pay dearly for it!)"
Read their advertising copy. They seem to be very caught up in their own viewpoint of how DCC should work, and seem to think that all the practices and conventions established well before they entered the market are nothing more than so much drivel.
To directly answer the OP's question, no, I haven't tried any of MRC's DCC products, and unless/until they change their attitude, it's not very likely that I will.
I have not seen it or used it. Is it even available yet? From the posts in the MRC user group, it appears that it will not work with JMRI. It only works with it's own software. It is supposed to have a 'wireless' connection to the PC. I am not sure if that is good or bad - I cannot see 'speed matching' a set of DCC locomotives from the upstairs bedroom! Per the MRC Yahoo Group, it appears that you will need to upgrade to the 'wireless' option to use this product(and sone PE units may need to be upgraded as well). I understand that it was 'demo'ed' at Trainfest last November.
Jim
Modeling BNSF and Milwaukee Road in SW Wisconsin
Hi everyone,
Has anyone used MRC's new computer program. Looking for a DCC system and was thinking digitrax and the jrmi program, but thought I'd ask about MRC's new program. Just looking for advise. Thanks