Probably not the most informative of posts, But I just wanted to get a mini-review out there for those who haven't experienced DCC yet...
While on a trip to southern California, I went into Milepost 38 Hobbies in Anaheim. They were exceptionally helpful to someone who has been in the hobby since 1976 (didn't treat me like a newbie!), and someone who had never touched any DCC equipment in his whole life (and they didn't treat me like a dummy!).
They gave me a generous amount of throttle time on Prodogy Squared, Digitraz Zephyr, and NCE Powercab, with a couple of different brands of locos - including a MTH Triplex - which surprised me with it's performance - and volume of smoke!Michael, the gentleman who gave me the run of their layout and control systems, gave me an interesting piece of advice. "Picking a DCC system is like choosing a digital camera. They all do about the same thing more or less. Choose the one that feels right to you!" I remembered that word for word!
I bought the NCE Powercab system from them, which is complete out of the box as is. Because I have a midsize HO scale layout (6' X 19'), I also opted for the SB3 Smart Booster and 5 amp power supply.It was the one that felt right, seemed user-friendly (F functions seemed easy enough to access), and loved the choice of single step throttle button, or 4(or more) step at a time throttle control, OR a thumbwheel throttle in the middle.
I got it home and set it up. The instructions were a little vague and confusing for a DCC novice (although the first few pages are wonderful - they just tell you how to wire it up and start programming and running trains within 20 minutes of opening the box!) I did just that!
I would also like to know WHY the bus wiring must be twisted (I'm just like that!)It should also tell you that QSI sound locos can't be programmed on the 'program track' because there is not enough current, but does program perfectly on the main.(you just have to remember to remove or isolate all your other locos on the main)Those issues aside, the system is everything I could have hoped for, and is quickly turning me from a novice to at least an intermediate, because it's so easy to use! I also like the large LCD display that gives vital info at a glance (anyone who has used DCS will appreciate that one!).
All in all, I highly recommend this system for someone just breaking into DCC. It's user-friendly, not very expensive, very easy to add to your layout, and unlike some starter systems, is very upgradable. The SB3 upgrade was easy as well. Provides plenty of power for any small to mid size layout - and just worked! Didn't have to do anything! It changed my Powercab into a Pro Cab automatically, and just works!
I also really need to thank the fine people at Milepost 38 Trains in Anaheim! I've been thinking about going DCC for 10 years. Their helpfulness and generousity in letting me actually have extensive time on a few different systems not only sold me immediately, but gave me a better understanding of the product before I got home. I will continue to mail order from them, as I have no good hobby shops here in Tucson.More hobby shops should do that!
Carmine, CEO, CE, and Chief Bottle Washer - the Pacific Belt RR, in HO scale
Founded by myself, 1975!
How are we going to get new recruits, when we ourselves are being priced out of the hobby!! Take your trains out of the box and play with them! That's why they were made!
phatkat64 wrote:I would also like to know WHY the bus wiring must be twisted (I'm just like that!)
Your DCC bus carries power as a pulsed AC digital signal instead of a DC voltage level. It is essentially a high-power computer network signal you are applying to your rails. The twisted pair reduces the signal degradation over longer runs.
phatkat64 wrote:It should also tell you that QSI sound locos can't be programmed on the 'program track' because there is not enough current, but does program perfectly on the main.(you just have to remember to remove or isolate all your other locos on the main)
Is it that it can't be programmed, or that CV's can't be read? A common problem with newer decoders is that they don't write back with enough current for some command stations to read. On my Digitrax Zephyr putting a 1k ohm resistor across the program track terminals in parallel with the locomotive corrects the problem. You might contact NCE and ask if this fix will work with the PowerCab.
Best!
Congrats and welcome to a whole new world of MRRing
Sounds like you got some good advise
the NCE Powercab is a good system I prefer myZephyr but like the man said they
do the same thing
Now the next logical step is to Check out Decodrer Pro
it will make programming as simple as clicking a mouse
http://jmri.sourceforge.net/DecoderPro/
TerryinTexas
See my Web Site Here
http://conewriversubdivision.yolasite.com/
Thanks Terry, I'll check it out a little more. it appears at first glance a decoder programmer for those of us who are not binary-eating computer geeks(and may never be!)
And thank you Randall for a nice simple explanation for bus wire twisting!I'll contact NCE about the resistor idea too.
In reality, twisting the bus wires isn't necessary. It may be beneficial in some cases, with a very long bus, but in almost all cases it is not necessary. On the other hand, it won't hurt.
Some sound decoders won't program easily, due to the high current they take to "turn on". I have read some cases where turning the sounds off solves the problem. In other cases, the resistor across the tracks, and in other cases the PowerPax programming booster form DCC Specialties does the trick.
Jeff But it's a dry heat!
phatkat64 wrote:Probably not the most informative of posts, But I just wanted to get a mini-review out there for those who haven't experienced DCC yet...While on a trip to southern California, I went into Milepost 38 Hobbies in Anaheim. They were exceptionally helpful to someone who has been in the hobby since 1976 (didn't treat me like a newbie!), and someone who had never touched any DCC equipment in his whole life (and they didn't treat me like a dummy!).They gave me a generous amount of throttle time on Prodogy Squared, Digitraz Zephyr, and NCE Powercab, with a couple of different brands of locos - including a MTH Triplex - which surprised me with it's performance - and volume of smoke! Michael, the gentleman who gave me the run of their layout and control systems, gave me an interesting piece of advice. "Picking a DCC system is like choosing a digital camera. They all do about the same thing more or less. Choose the one that feels right to you!" I remembered that word for word!
They gave me a generous amount of throttle time on Prodogy Squared, Digitraz Zephyr, and NCE Powercab, with a couple of different brands of locos - including a MTH Triplex - which surprised me with it's performance - and volume of smoke! Michael, the gentleman who gave me the run of their layout and control systems, gave me an interesting piece of advice. "Picking a DCC system is like choosing a digital camera. They all do about the same thing more or less. Choose the one that feels right to you!" I remembered that word for word!
Michael is right. For the most part, DCC systems pretty much do the same thing. However, there are advantages and disadvantages to any DCC system on the market today. You not only have to decide on which system will best fit your "needs" (i.e. both current and future) but also on which one makes programming and operating the most logical and enjoyable. There are tradeoffs - no matter which system you use.
I bought the NCE Powercab system from them, which is complete out of the box as is. Because I have a midsize HO scale layout (6' X 19'), I also opted for the SB3 Smart Booster and 5 amp power supply. It was the one that felt right, seemed user-friendly (F functions seemed easy enough to access), and loved the choice of single step throttle button, or 4(or more) step at a time throttle control, OR a thumbwheel throttle in the middle.
That's the one I chose, after I had the Bachmann E-Z Command for a year. I also like the option of using either the thumbwheel or the gross and fine push buttons to operate my locomotives.
Carmine, a quick question for you. You bought a 5-amp power supply with your Smart Booster (SB3)? Did you mean 3-amp wall transformer? The SB3 has a 3-amp limit. If you did buy the 5-amp transformer, you could ruin both your SB3 and your Power Cab.
Agreed. Carmine, may I suggest downloading the current version of the Power Cab manual from the NCE web site (v.1.28), printing it out, and placing it in a 1" binder. I like have it on 8-1/2 x 11" paper and the manual gives you nice wide margins to jot notes in.
I would also like to know WHY the bus wiring must be twisted (I'm just like that!)
There is ongoing debate whether you should twist your power bus wires together or leave them in parallel. Personally, I find it easier to keep track of my bus wires if they are not twisted. So, even though NCE suggests it, I don't do it on my 4 x 8. I think it's more import on longer runs of bus wire.
Actually, I've ran my layout these past 3 years with only two feeder wires and have had no problems. However, I am in the process of installing power bus wires and feeders underneath my track. The tricky part is figuring out how to best lay the bus wire and feeders so that I don't have long runs of anything.
It should also tell you that QSI sound locos can't be programmed on the 'program track' because there is not enough current, but does program perfectly on the main.(you just have to remember to remove or isolate all your other locos on the main)
Carmine, that's interesting because that shouldn't be the case with the Power Cab. I have a BLI 2-8-2 with QSI and have no problems programming it on my programming track. Because earlier DCC systems had this problem and required either a resistor solder across the two rails of the programming track or the aid of track booster like the PowerPax, the Power Cab was designed with the extra "oomph" needed to program sound decoders.
Those issues aside, the system is everything I could have hoped for, and is quickly turning me from a novice to at least an intermediate, because it's so easy to use! I also like the large LCD display that gives vital info at a glance (anyone who has used DCS will appreciate that one!).
Just a side comment, Carmine. With the Smart Booster, your Power Cab is plugged into a UTP panel. You can buy additional UTP panels and daisy-chain them around your layout for more plug-in locations. However, you'll still need your PCP panel for programming with your Power Cab. The nice thing is that you can now program from your bench area or wherever you'd like.
All in all, I highly recommend this system for someone just breaking into DCC. It's user-friendly, not very expensive, very easy to add to your layout, and unlike some starter systems, is very upgradable. The SB3 upgrade was easy as well. Provides plenty of power for any small to mid size layout - and just worked! Didn't have to do anything! It changed my Powercab into a Pro Cab automatically, and just works!I also really need to thank the fine people at Milepost 38 Trains in Anaheim! I've been thinking about going DCC for 10 years. Their helpfulness and generousity in letting me actually have extensive time on a few different systems not only sold me immediately, but gave me a better understanding of the product before I got home. I will continue to mail order from them, as I have no good hobby shops here in Tucson. More hobby shops should do that!
I also really need to thank the fine people at Milepost 38 Trains in Anaheim! I've been thinking about going DCC for 10 years. Their helpfulness and generousity in letting me actually have extensive time on a few different systems not only sold me immediately, but gave me a better understanding of the product before I got home. I will continue to mail order from them, as I have no good hobby shops here in Tucson. More hobby shops should do that!
Carmine, I wish I had had the same kind of opportunity when I was intially looking into DCC that you did. However, none of the LHSes in my area offered that at all. That really gives you the opportuinty to compare apples to apples for each DCC system.
Even so, I think I would have still ended up with the Power Cab. I'm very happy with my choice. Thanks again for the review.
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
tstage wrote: Carmine,Welcome to the wonderful world of DCC. Thanks for sharing your DCC-buying experience with us. phatkat64 wrote:Thanks Tom, it was my pleasure! Wanted to comment on a few things below... Carmine, quick question for you. You bought a 5-amp power supply with your Smart Booster (SB3)? Did you mean 3-amp wall transformer? The SB3 has a 3-amp limit. If you did buy the 5-amp transformer, you could ruin both your SB3 and your Power Cab. Tom, that one might get some debate. On the NCE website, under SB3 discription it quotes: "Requires a power supply such as our P515."From what the guys at the hobby shop told me, it will only use as much amperage as it needs. NCE concurs.I got it home and set it up. The instructions were a little vague and confusing for a DCC novice (although the first few pages are wonderful - they just tell you how to wire it up and start programming and running trains within 20 minutes of opening the box!) I did just that!Agreed. Carmine, may I suggest downloading the current version of the Power Cab manual from the NCE web site (v.1.28), printing it out, and placing it in a binder. I like have it on 8-1/2 x 11" paper and the manual gives you nice wide margins to jot notes in. Just did that - thanks!Just a side comment, Carmine. With the Smart Booster, your Power Cab is plugged into a UTP panel. You can buy additional UTP panels and daisy-chain them around your layout for more plug-in locations. However, you'll still need your PCP panel for programming with your Power Cab. The nice thing is that you can now program from your bench area or wherever you'd like. Very true Tom. On my layout, if I could get a longer 4-lead coiled cord (say 15 feet), I could move around my whole layout plugged into one central location! I will have more UTP's for other controllers - like for another operator to do some switching. Carmine, I wish I had had the same kind of opportunity when I was intially looking into DCC that you did. However, none of the LHSes in my area offered that at all. That really gives you the opportuinty to compare apples to apples for each DCC system. Tom, I wish ALL LHS's would do that! The two near me aren't real MR'ers, they're all business! Even so, I think I would have still ended up with the Power Cab. I'm very happy with my choice. Thanks again for the review. Tom
Carmine,
Welcome to the wonderful world of DCC. Thanks for sharing your DCC-buying experience with us.
phatkat64 wrote:Thanks Tom, it was my pleasure!
Wanted to comment on a few things below...
Carmine, quick question for you. You bought a 5-amp power supply with your Smart Booster (SB3)? Did you mean 3-amp wall transformer? The SB3 has a 3-amp limit. If you did buy the 5-amp transformer, you could ruin both your SB3 and your Power Cab.
Agreed. Carmine, may I suggest downloading the current version of the Power Cab manual from the NCE web site (v.1.28), printing it out, and placing it in a binder. I like have it on 8-1/2 x 11" paper and the manual gives you nice wide margins to jot notes in.
Just did that - thanks!
Very true Tom. On my layout, if I could get a longer 4-lead coiled cord (say 15 feet), I could move around my whole layout plugged into one central location! I will have more UTP's for other controllers - like for another operator to do some switching.
Tom, I wish ALL LHS's would do that! The two near me aren't real MR'ers, they're all business!
phatkat64 wrote: ... but does program perfectly on the main.(you just have to remember to remove or isolate all your other locos on the main)
... but does program perfectly on the main.(you just have to remember to remove or isolate all your other locos on the main)
Unless I am missing something, your programming on the main will not affect other decoders because, in OPS mode, you are talking to a specific decoder and not broadcasting (unless you use address " 0 ".
Cut and paste from your NCE manual.
" Programming on the Main is also called Operations (OPS) Mode programming. OPS programming allows you to change parameters while the loco is on the main track (even while it's running). This does not affect other locomotives on the track. You can even change the locomotive address. "
Just playing it safe! I only have 3 locomotives on the track anyway. I did read the manual.I did mention I'm brand new to DCC, and there's alot more I DON'T know than I DO know.
I may try it......
I truly didn't mean to mislead anyone with that statement, I was just stating how I decided to do it.
Welcome to the DCC world. Here are a lot of links concerning DCC.
http://www.members.optusnet.com.au/nswmn/index.htm
There are Yahoo DCC Groups for different DCC systems and decoders. The groups have Files and Photos sections with info from various members.
I use the NCE Power Cab. Check back before you purchase from a LHS. If you find competitive prices, you might get a better deal. My LHS can pretty much match online prices. Usually the price I pay is the cost including shipping that an onlie store will charge. I do buy online sometimes.
Rich
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.
Rich, that website is an absolute wealth! I'll be on that one for at least days, if not weeks!
The LHS I bought it from did match online price+shipping, but the service that went with it made the biggest difference!
I joined the Yahoo NCE-DCC Group. It has been alot of help as well.
Fortunately, I learn fast, but I have a LOT to learn here!!!CV56 alone is giving me nightmares!!!! Where's the magic button for CV56.4 or CV56.10??????There isn't any way I can see to go from CV56 to CV56 point anything!!!!!!Please don't get into binary tables - I am binary stupid!!!!!As far as the basics, everything is going better than I ever could have hoped!I am so glad to finally get into DCC!!!! Now I can't figure out what took me so long!
The Yahoo! NCE-DCC group is indeed a great place. You'll quickly find out that Mark (Gurries) and Marcus (Ammann) are the Dynamic Duo when it comes to answering questions.
phatkat64 wrote: Snip Fortunately, I learn fast, but I have a LOT to learn here!!!CV56 alone is giving me nightmares!!!! Where's the magic button for CV56.4 or CV56.10??????There isn't any way I can see to go from CV56 to CV56 point anything!!!!!!Please don't get into binary tables - I am binary stupid!!!!!
Snip
Fortunately, I learn fast, but I have a LOT to learn here!!!CV56 alone is giving me nightmares!!!! Where's the magic button for CV56.4 or CV56.10??????There isn't any way I can see to go from CV56 to CV56 point anything!!!!!!Please don't get into binary tables - I am binary stupid!!!!!
This is why people use Decoder Pro
You don't have to know any of this
just point and click your mouse
Take a look at Davids Tutorial
http://cs.trains.com/forums/1207458/ShowPost.aspx
I would to have loved to see it, but apparantly, it's on the new, ever-growing list of deleted posts!
The website link you gave me works though!
phatkat64 wrote:I would to have loved to see it, but apparantly, it's on the new, ever-growing list of deleted posts!The website link you gave me works though!
You all might consider what I do. I save the pages to my hard drive as a HTML document in case the site ever goes away. Unfortunately I did not see the posting. This way all I have to do is click on the HTML icon in my hard drive and it opens up the complete page. All the photos and other files for that page are save also.
Try it some time, disconnect your PC from the web and go to the file manager. Click on the HTML Icon. The page should open up like you were on the 'Net. Make directories for each page.
phatkat64 wrote:I would to have loved to see it, but apparantly, it's on the new, ever-growing list of deleted posts!
Hmmm. It appears that David himself deleted his own tutorial. Too bad. It was good.
Hey Rich, if you still have access to David's original page how about copying it and pasting it here so all of us who didn't save the original can get a copy of it too.
I'll second that!
I can't be the only old fart who could use some good info!
THIS IS NOT TRUE!
You could put a 20 amp transformer on it and not hurt it.
The rating on the transformer is the MAXIMUM it can deliver.
Just as the 20 amp circuit in your house doesn't ruin a 15 watt light bulb even though it draws less than 1 amp....
It will, of course, not increase the output of the Powercab.
Dave
Lackawanna Route of the Phoebe Snow
I would recommend everyone with DCC to use Decoder Pro, even if you don't have a computer connection. It is a great tool to keep info on your roster. If you install a Digitrax decoder and want the functions to do anything special you will wish you had it. With it you can point and click what you want and it will tell you which CVs to program at what value.
Gary
I would love to have one!
Where do I get one?
phatkat64 wrote: I would love to have one!Where do I get one?
It's a free download. You need some Java stuff too, but the download guides you through it.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
Thank you so much! It looks WAY easier than flippin binaries!!!! Of course, I'm still nowere near computer geek status, so their will probably be more questions.....
First of many; Can I make a programming track in my office (abt 40 feet from my layout), using my original Powercab controller, a piece of track, the original 2 amp power supply, the original PCP, and NCE's USB adaptor??? (my layout is now running in SB3 Procab mode)
Yes, you can. If you get the USB adapter, you can then hook your Power Cab and programming track to a computer and use the JMRI Decoder Pro software to speed match/program locomotives, as well as save their settings. (That's handy if you should ever need to reset your decoder for some reason.) If you do use Decoder Pro to speed match locomotives, make sure your programming track is long enough.
Perfect! Thanks Tom!
My idea for the "indoor programming track" was a 3 1/2 foot section of 1X4, and 4' of my old B'Mann EZ-Track(soldered together)...
...this almost sounds easy!
Yea, I have my programming track on a piece of 1 x 3. It's portable, fits on top of my bench, and easily stores away when I don't need it.
Next stupid question....
Do I have to change the address of my Powercab controller for this remote programming track, since it's being hooked up somewhere else, or will it just not matter?
Nope, not at all. Just use it as is.
Carmine, the only time throttle addresses come into play is when you start adding additional throttles to your Power Cab set up. As long as the other throttle addresses are not the same as your Power Cab throttle (default "2"?), you'll be fine.
With the SB3, you can operate a maximum of 4 throttles on your layout, including your Power Cab.