I am coming to this posting in the middle of the conversation so please excuse me if I am restating something already made clear enough. With respect to how, one of the easiest methods I have seen to sort out and route decorative wiring is to use a piece of HO flex track on the under side of your scenery to be wired. By soldering the + wires to one side and the - wires to the other you have constructed an "in parallel" wiring harness. You can add or delete anything that has to operate from the same voltage, which in the case of most lighting needs to be the same. The cost is low, the flex track is durable, there is plenty of space between the positive and negative wires, and the rails have nearly infinite current capacity. For home layouts that are not modular or sectional, soldering upside down is a drawback - just wear clothing that will withstand a little hot solder. Connect the flex track terminals with #16 stranded wire and whatever plugs you need to connect your modules.
Even if you are not an N Scaler, in Front Royal you are close to a large number of Northern Virginia NTRAKers, many of whom would be happy to show you how to make this simple and understandable.
Ralph
hubbards98 wrote:What the heck am I getting myself into
What is the trouble?
Seamonster wrote:
only thing with this that raises question -- does the (presumably) thinner jumper wire affect anything with regard to being resistive?
-Dan
Builder of Bowser steam! Railimages Site
Tim Fahey
Musconetcong Branch of the Lehigh Valley RR
Here's some night shots of my N scale scratch built Hercules plant here in Brunswick, GA. These are all done with LEDs. There's no ground scenery around them yet.
Mike Tennent
Thanks Bob, that confirms what I thought. Also Radio Shack has barrier strips in different sizes and they have a barrier strip jumper. It looks like you could cut it in half to achieve what you have in the drawing. I have a ton of 18 guage wire in two colors so I will use it for the feeders. I'm also probably going to go with multiple powers supplies because it will make my modules easier to set up with lighting at the meets. When I get something lighted on one of my modules, I'll post some photos to show you all what you taught me.
Jeff, those are great photos. I like the shop with the multiple lights inside. Very realistic. Thanks.
I made a quick and dirty sketch of what I was describing. Hope it illustrates the point.
#18 wire will take one amp of current, but if the run is long, say over 10 or 15 feet, you should go for #16 wire. Don't forget, the resistance of the wire has to be taken into account for both out and back. At the risk of adding to the confusion, the smaller the wire (higher gauge number) the more resistance to the electricity it has. This resistance can cause a lowering of the voltage at the end of the wire. The more amps or milliamps you suck down the wire, the more pronounced this effect is. To put your mind at rest, on an average sized layout, #18 wire is just fine for structure lighting if you keep the current in each circuit under an amp or so.
..... Bob
Beam me up, Scotty, there's no intelligent life down here. (Captain Kirk)
I reject your reality and substitute my own. (Adam Savage)
Resistance is not futile--it is voltage divided by current.
A few night shots to get things started:
The intermodal freight office
The diesel shop
The yard
The mine
Engineer Jeff NS Nut Visit my layout at: http://www.thebinks.com/trains/
fwright wrote:Neither one is an accurate analogy.Your electric bill is for energy use, not power. You are billed for Killowatt-hours, or power multiplied by time, which equals energy. In the water flow analogy, energy would be represented by the total amount of water through the hose in a given time period. Power would then be the flow rate - gallons/minute. Electrical power is amps times volts. If volts equals water velocity, then amps would be most closely represented by water column cross section. In any case, unless you have a real understanding of hydraulics, the water hose analogy tends to fall apart pretty quickly, and is pretty worthless to the non-engineer.just my thoughtsFred W
Your electric bill is for energy use, not power. You are billed for Killowatt-hours, or power multiplied by time, which equals energy. In the water flow analogy, energy would be represented by the total amount of water through the hose in a given time period. Power would then be the flow rate - gallons/minute. Electrical power is amps times volts. If volts equals water velocity, then amps would be most closely represented by water column cross section. In any case, unless you have a real understanding of hydraulics, the water hose analogy tends to fall apart pretty quickly, and is pretty worthless to the non-engineer.
just my thoughts
Fred W
Ok guys. Before this topic gets dragged OFF topic by a debate on the proper analogy to use for describing power in a circuit...lets just forget the analogy and concentrate on the thread topic, ok?
Phoebe Vet wrote: jbinkley60 wrote: Phoebe Vet wrote: NeO6874 is right, but he forgot Watts, which is the total amount of water moved.I would use a different description of ohms (resistance) like how steep a hill you are trying to move the water up.Actually amps would be the total amount of water moved. Watts would be the amount of power expended by the moving water. Another example for resistance is to think of a hose. A smaller hose has more resistance to the flow of water whereas a larger hose will allow more water to flow more easily. Wire size follows the same analogy. You are wrong. Amps is the rate of flow. Watts is the total volume.Does your electric bill charge you by the amp? Or by the watt?
jbinkley60 wrote: Phoebe Vet wrote: NeO6874 is right, but he forgot Watts, which is the total amount of water moved.I would use a different description of ohms (resistance) like how steep a hill you are trying to move the water up.Actually amps would be the total amount of water moved. Watts would be the amount of power expended by the moving water. Another example for resistance is to think of a hose. A smaller hose has more resistance to the flow of water whereas a larger hose will allow more water to flow more easily. Wire size follows the same analogy.
Phoebe Vet wrote: NeO6874 is right, but he forgot Watts, which is the total amount of water moved.I would use a different description of ohms (resistance) like how steep a hill you are trying to move the water up.
NeO6874 is right, but he forgot Watts, which is the total amount of water moved.
I would use a different description of ohms (resistance) like how steep a hill you are trying to move the water up.
Actually amps would be the total amount of water moved. Watts would be the amount of power expended by the moving water. Another example for resistance is to think of a hose. A smaller hose has more resistance to the flow of water whereas a larger hose will allow more water to flow more easily. Wire size follows the same analogy.
You are wrong. Amps is the rate of flow. Watts is the total volume.
Does your electric bill charge you by the amp? Or by the watt?
Neither one is an accurate analogy.
Dave
Lackawanna Route of the Phoebe Snow
On my layout I went to Home Depot and bought 7 conductor 18 ga. thermostat wire for lighting. I run three buses, each using 1 pair of the 7 wires. This leaves me with one wire left over. The three buses I run are:
1. Fixed 12VDC bus that powers turnouts, control panels and other things which need 12VDC all of the time.
2. An on'off 12VDC bus. This is for outdoor building lights and streetlights. Basically any light which has a constant brightness.
3. A variable 0-12VDC bus for interior building lighting. Thus I can set the interior lighting to whatever brightness I'd like.
I used Radio SHack European barrier strips about every 4-6' under the layout and then bring the various lights or devices needing power back to the barrier strips. For powering everything, I designed and built my own power supply which is DCC controlled. It provides all three outputs with DCC control for bus 2 & 3. It doesn't require power from the DCC booster.
http://www.thebinks.com/trains/decoder_adapter.html
If you aren't ambitious to build one then you could create the same thing with an old power pack of sufficient output. Just wire the 12V accessory outputs to bus 1, wire the same outputs to bus 2 but place a switch between the power pack and the bus and then wire the power pack track output to bus 3.
Another trick I use for lighting buildings is to insert the lights from below (where possible). I will drill 1/4" holes under the buildings (add as many holes as needed for larger buildings). Then I take a 1/4" dowel pin and drill a 3/32" hole down the center pf the dowel pin. Next I take a grain of wheat bulb and slide the wire through the hole in the dowel pin and place a dab of glue on the bottom of the bulb to hold it to the dowel pin. Lastly, I insert the dowel pin in the hole under the building until it stays in the hole. You can add a dab of white glue (just use a drop) if the hole is too big. Then if I ever need to change the light, I just remove the dowel pin and replace the bulb.
Lastly, do we want to post any pictures of layout lighting to give folks any ideas ?
Bob,
I think I get what you mean. At the risk of making my own eyes glaze over, is that 5 parallel connections on the left and more or less connecting them in series on the right in order to just have two feeds? It seems to me I've seen a commercial version of what you are describing somewhere, maybe Radio Shack. In the setup that you describe, if all of the wires from the bulbs on the left were 22 or 24 guage, would you want the two feeder wires on the right to be a lower number, say 16 or 18 to accomodate the combined load? Thanks again.
tcf511 wrote: Bob,Your response is about as close to Lighting for Dummies as I've seen. Thanks. I have two questions. Are you saying that with a terminal strip, I can feed in say 6 pairs of wires from 6 lights and have just two output feeders going to the power buss? If yes, I'm thinking that I could use your recommendation with 16 or 18 guage feeder wires. I solder my track connections, so it is not soldering itself that makes me nervous but on my track buss I use 18 guage feeders and used suitcase clamps to attach them to the 12 guage buss. This has worked fine so far. My second question is...do you have a photo or two of a terminal strip in use that you could share with us? Finally, Phoebe Vet, yes I'm still awake and paying attention.
Your response is about as close to Lighting for Dummies as I've seen. Thanks. I have two questions. Are you saying that with a terminal strip, I can feed in say 6 pairs of wires from 6 lights and have just two output feeders going to the power buss? If yes, I'm thinking that I could use your recommendation with 16 or 18 guage feeder wires. I solder my track connections, so it is not soldering itself that makes me nervous but on my track buss I use 18 guage feeders and used suitcase clamps to attach them to the 12 guage buss. This has worked fine so far. My second question is...do you have a photo or two of a terminal strip in use that you could share with us? Finally, Phoebe Vet, yes I'm still awake and paying attention.
Looks like Phoebe Vet beat me to it with his photo in his post on Sunday at 8:56 pm. He's got both barrier strips and European strips in the photo. Pretty close to what I would have posted, so check out his photo.
As for multiple connections to a terminal strip, yes. This works best with barrier strips. Look at the photo of Phoebe Vet's barrier strips (the black ones top right). You've got joined pairs of screws with the screw on the left joined to the one on the right (if the strip is vertical). What you do is attach all your bulb wires to one side, lets say the left. Let's say you've got 5 bulbs. Attach one wire from each of the bulbs to the first 5 screws on the left. Attach the other wires from the bulbs to the other 5 screws on the left. So you've got one side of each bulb attached to the first 5 screws and the other side of each bulb attached to the second five screws. Now, take a piece of bare solid wire and secure it under the top screw on the right. Bend it into a U-shape so that it will go around the barrier and bend it into another U-shape sho that it will go under the second screw. Tighten the second screw. Do the same for the third, fourth and fifth screw. Cut off the excess wire. Now, do the same thing all over again, starting at the sixth screw and going to the tenth screw. Attach one of your feeder wires to the first screw and the other feeder wire to the tenth screw (actually, you can attach the feeder wires to any screw in the group). Now you've got one pair of feeder or supply wires powering 5 lamps. You can always put two lamp wires under one screw if you've got more lamps than your terminal strips have screws.
Hope that answers your question. If you've got more, ask away. And thanx for the compliment.
UpNorth wrote: CofGaMike wrote: Phoebe vet: [masked explicative removed] nice wiring, dude. But waaaay too organized ... Mike TennentNice and organized, the way to make trouble shooting less of a pain.
CofGaMike wrote: Phoebe vet: [masked explicative removed] nice wiring, dude. But waaaay too organized ... Mike Tennent
Phoebe vet: [masked explicative removed] nice wiring, dude. But waaaay too organized ...
Nice and organized, the way to make trouble shooting less of a pain.
Dr. Frankendiesel aka Scott Running BearSpace Mouse for president!15 year veteran fire fighterCollector of Apple //e'sRunning Bear EnterprisesHistory Channel Club life member.beatus homo qui invenit sapientiam
Hang on I'll be right back, "runs to the store to buy a tape recorder and a video camera". Ok I'm ready. Lights, camera, action.
Johnnny_reb Once a word is spoken it can not be unspoken!
My Train Page My Photobucket Page My YouTube Channel
CofGaMike wrote: Phoebe vet: d*mn nice wiring, dude. But waaaay too organized ... Mike Tennent
Phoebe vet: d*mn nice wiring, dude. But waaaay too organized ...
While it is more obvious in the image posted by upnorth, notice that the boards are hinged so that they can be swung down when you need to work on the wiring.
My board is so large because the DS-64s and BDL-168 will be added in a couple of months.
Tim,
A very good book that covers many of the topics you mention is
"A Beginners Guide to Creative Effects for your Model Railroad." Do a Google and a couple of retailers will pop up.
It's a little pricey, but it goes from very simple projects and subjects, covers basics, and moves on to more complicated things. I highly recommend it.
I've used a lot of terminal strips in the past, but I dislike the fiddling needed to add/change wires. It seems like one wire will always manage to slip out when you're trying to tighten the screw.
I'm actually thinking about designing a simple distribution board that uses the "european" type connectors that clamp down on wires via a small screw on top. I use them on my other electronic boards and they are a bit easier to use.
First off, for building and outdoor lighting (street lights, station platform lamps, parking lot and alley illumination) think of a table lamp. The ordinary table lamp has a lamp (technical name for a light bulb,) a switch and some wire to connect the two and connect both to electrical power. Likewise, a typical fixed light source on a layout will have a lamp (or several,) a switch and wires connecting the two and connecting both to a power source. The power source must be appropriate for the lamp(s) - 120VAC house current for the table lamp, some much lower voltage for model lighting.
About the power source: I would NOT power fixed lights from a DCC bus for several reasons:
My personal approach is to power the fixed lights in each town from a separate source - a small, cheap source (yard sale toy train transformer, obsolete wall wart, etc...) The 120V plugs all go to a single power strip with a circuit breaker. That power strip, in turn, plugs into a strip that powers the entire layout - and is switched OFF when the layout is not in operation. Each light circuit on the low voltage side of the local power supply has a switch, so all the lights in town don't come on or go off at once.
"Stretching" wires is done most easily by splicing them to longer wires - and then wrapping the soldered joints with vinyl electrical tape to insulate them against shorts. It is also a good idea to label the wire ends to identify what they connect to.
I'll admit that I've barely scratched the surface of a very large subject. I hope that this has been more helpful than confusing.
Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
I didn't say that, upnorth said that. He just included a quote from my post in it.