jbinkley60 wrote: Phoebe Vet wrote: NeO6874 is right, but he forgot Watts, which is the total amount of water moved.I would use a different description of ohms (resistance) like how steep a hill you are trying to move the water up.Actually amps would be the total amount of water moved. Watts would be the amount of power expended by the moving water. Another example for resistance is to think of a hose. A smaller hose has more resistance to the flow of water whereas a larger hose will allow more water to flow more easily. Wire size follows the same analogy.
Phoebe Vet wrote: NeO6874 is right, but he forgot Watts, which is the total amount of water moved.I would use a different description of ohms (resistance) like how steep a hill you are trying to move the water up.
NeO6874 is right, but he forgot Watts, which is the total amount of water moved.
I would use a different description of ohms (resistance) like how steep a hill you are trying to move the water up.
Actually amps would be the total amount of water moved. Watts would be the amount of power expended by the moving water. Another example for resistance is to think of a hose. A smaller hose has more resistance to the flow of water whereas a larger hose will allow more water to flow more easily. Wire size follows the same analogy.
You are wrong. Amps is the rate of flow. Watts is the total volume.
Does your electric bill charge you by the amp? Or by the watt?
Dave
Lackawanna Route of the Phoebe Snow
Phoebe Vet wrote: jbinkley60 wrote: Phoebe Vet wrote: NeO6874 is right, but he forgot Watts, which is the total amount of water moved.I would use a different description of ohms (resistance) like how steep a hill you are trying to move the water up.Actually amps would be the total amount of water moved. Watts would be the amount of power expended by the moving water. Another example for resistance is to think of a hose. A smaller hose has more resistance to the flow of water whereas a larger hose will allow more water to flow more easily. Wire size follows the same analogy. You are wrong. Amps is the rate of flow. Watts is the total volume.Does your electric bill charge you by the amp? Or by the watt?
Neither one is an accurate analogy.
Your electric bill is for energy use, not power. You are billed for Killowatt-hours, or power multiplied by time, which equals energy. In the water flow analogy, energy would be represented by the total amount of water through the hose in a given time period. Power would then be the flow rate - gallons/minute. Electrical power is amps times volts. If volts equals water velocity, then amps would be most closely represented by water column cross section. In any case, unless you have a real understanding of hydraulics, the water hose analogy tends to fall apart pretty quickly, and is pretty worthless to the non-engineer.
just my thoughts
Fred W
fwright wrote:Neither one is an accurate analogy.Your electric bill is for energy use, not power. You are billed for Killowatt-hours, or power multiplied by time, which equals energy. In the water flow analogy, energy would be represented by the total amount of water through the hose in a given time period. Power would then be the flow rate - gallons/minute. Electrical power is amps times volts. If volts equals water velocity, then amps would be most closely represented by water column cross section. In any case, unless you have a real understanding of hydraulics, the water hose analogy tends to fall apart pretty quickly, and is pretty worthless to the non-engineer.just my thoughtsFred W
Ok guys. Before this topic gets dragged OFF topic by a debate on the proper analogy to use for describing power in a circuit...lets just forget the analogy and concentrate on the thread topic, ok?
A few night shots to get things started:
The intermodal freight office
The diesel shop
The yard
The mine
Engineer Jeff NS Nut Visit my layout at: http://www.thebinks.com/trains/
I made a quick and dirty sketch of what I was describing. Hope it illustrates the point.
#18 wire will take one amp of current, but if the run is long, say over 10 or 15 feet, you should go for #16 wire. Don't forget, the resistance of the wire has to be taken into account for both out and back. At the risk of adding to the confusion, the smaller the wire (higher gauge number) the more resistance to the electricity it has. This resistance can cause a lowering of the voltage at the end of the wire. The more amps or milliamps you suck down the wire, the more pronounced this effect is. To put your mind at rest, on an average sized layout, #18 wire is just fine for structure lighting if you keep the current in each circuit under an amp or so.
..... Bob
Beam me up, Scotty, there's no intelligent life down here. (Captain Kirk)
I reject your reality and substitute my own. (Adam Savage)
Resistance is not futile--it is voltage divided by current.
Thanks Bob, that confirms what I thought. Also Radio Shack has barrier strips in different sizes and they have a barrier strip jumper. It looks like you could cut it in half to achieve what you have in the drawing. I have a ton of 18 guage wire in two colors so I will use it for the feeders. I'm also probably going to go with multiple powers supplies because it will make my modules easier to set up with lighting at the meets. When I get something lighted on one of my modules, I'll post some photos to show you all what you taught me.
Jeff, those are great photos. I like the shop with the multiple lights inside. Very realistic. Thanks.
Tim Fahey
Musconetcong Branch of the Lehigh Valley RR
Here's some night shots of my N scale scratch built Hercules plant here in Brunswick, GA. These are all done with LEDs. There's no ground scenery around them yet.
Mike Tennent
Seamonster wrote:
only thing with this that raises question -- does the (presumably) thinner jumper wire affect anything with regard to being resistive?
-Dan
Builder of Bowser steam! Railimages Site
hubbards98 wrote:What the heck am I getting myself into
What is the trouble?
I am coming to this posting in the middle of the conversation so please excuse me if I am restating something already made clear enough. With respect to how, one of the easiest methods I have seen to sort out and route decorative wiring is to use a piece of HO flex track on the under side of your scenery to be wired. By soldering the + wires to one side and the - wires to the other you have constructed an "in parallel" wiring harness. You can add or delete anything that has to operate from the same voltage, which in the case of most lighting needs to be the same. The cost is low, the flex track is durable, there is plenty of space between the positive and negative wires, and the rails have nearly infinite current capacity. For home layouts that are not modular or sectional, soldering upside down is a drawback - just wear clothing that will withstand a little hot solder. Connect the flex track terminals with #16 stranded wire and whatever plugs you need to connect your modules.
Even if you are not an N Scaler, in Front Royal you are close to a large number of Northern Virginia NTRAKers, many of whom would be happy to show you how to make this simple and understandable.
Ralph
Ralph:
Flex track is easier and cheaper than wire?
Did you mean to post this two days ago?
http://www.miniatronics.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=B_3
Try one of the top 2 for the lights. 2 heavier guage supply wires into the posts on the bottom. Individual lights or buildings go to the pairs of terminals. No jumpers needed, they are built in.
Timber Head Eastern Railroad "THE Railroad Through the Sierras"
Dr. Frankendiesel aka Scott Running BearSpace Mouse for president!15 year veteran fire fighterCollector of Apple //e'sRunning Bear EnterprisesHistory Channel Club life member.beatus homo qui invenit sapientiam
You're right, the resistance of the jumpers isn't much of a concern, but if you want to be extra sure, then use the same size wire as the ones coming from the power supply, but not smaller than #20. I didn't mention the commercial metal jumpers as they are not that easy to find, but if you can get them, use them. Easier and neater. Just make sure they're the right size for your terminal strip.
I use dowels to hold my structure lighting as jbinkley60 does. I use a thin wood dowel, tape the bulb to the top of it by the wires with the bulb above the dowel, tape the wires down the dowel, insert it up through a hole just big enough to let the bulb and dowel pass through and when I have it positioned right, secure it with a little wooden wedge jammed in between the dowel and the hole. Just make sure to leave enough slack in the wires so that you can fully extract the dowel without having to detach the wires. I've even used this method with longer dowels for second floor lighting.
One thing I've done with my structure lighting is to divide it up into a number of branch circuits and I built an electronic sequencer to turn each branch on and off at different rates. One branch is always on and one is manually controlled. Street lighting, once I find some street lights which I like, is on a separate manually-controlled branch.
Nice night shots jbinkley60 and CofGaMike. I haven't tried to get any night shots of my town yet. Should do that. I'll add it to the list of things to do if I can ever find the bottom end of that list!
I know ot the ways of the crossing, but It seems to me that one can use the old DC controllers that pile up from trainsets, and use the AC side (the side not used to hook up to the track) You can dim houses with this, providing you're not trying to powwer a small town with 1
-Morgan
Here's a great little item to power layout lighting with. An AT type computer power supply. I got this one new for $10. Used ones can be had for next to nothing.
jeffrey-wimberly wrote: Here's a great little item to power layout lighting with. An AT type computer power supply. I got this one new for $10. Used ones can be had for next to nothing.
Jeff you got me to thinking so I did some number crunching.
http://cs.trains.com/forums/1406348/ShowPost.aspx
Johnnny_reb Once a word is spoken it can not be unspoken!
My Train Page My Photobucket Page My YouTube Channel
searp63 wrote:I've been involved in industrial electronics and wiring and hobby wiring for years. A close friend of mine is an electronics engineer, and I still am weak in my understanding of electrical basics, until now. Seamonster, you should write the Electricals for Dummy Hobbiest Book. You are a genuis.
Thank you for the compliment. Now, how am I going to get this swelled head of mine through the door to get out of the room?
Seamonster wrote: searp63 wrote:I've been involved in industrial electronics and wiring and hobby wiring for years. A close friend of mine is an electronics engineer, and I still am weak in my understanding of electrical basics, until now. Seamonster, you should write the Electricals for Dummy Hobbiest Book. You are a genuis.Thank you for the compliment. Now, how am I going to get this swelled head of mine through the door to get out of the room?
I've been working on getting my foot high enough to kick myself in the back of the head. Until I can get that limber my wife does it for me.
Since we're talking about house lighting, I'll bring up my number one pet peeve - lights in a building located on the floor.
How many people gather around a big 2' round light bulb in the middle of their living room floor?
Seriously, it looks so unrealistic as to be comical. I go to great lengths to locate lights in a building so they look right. That means mounting ceiling lights from the room ABOVE the lighted room. Or to the side so they look like table lamps, etc.
Off my soap box...
CofGaMike wrote:How many people gather around a big 2' round light bulb in the middle of their living room floor?
LOL.
Like they say, there's a prototype for everything.
Mike T.
Being a newbie to posting to the forums I am not sure if this is the right place for this, so I apologize in advance if it isn't. Terminal strips were brought up for lighting, so here goes.
Using terminal strips is a very good way to keep things neat and orderly, make changes and troubleshoot. Terminal strips and terminal boards can be made very easily and cheaply in any size using a few simple materials. We use a two terminal strip at track connections, lighting connections directly under a building, etc. Switch machines use larger strips or small panels depending on number of connections needed, and so on. These would be placed right next to the track feeders or switch machine or whatever on the underside of the layout. We also use large panels in central spots around the layout to gather all these connections for connections to other central panels, power supplies, control stations, etc.
Cut 1/8" perforated hard tempered Masonite (pegboard) into strips or panels to the desired size. Insert a #8-32 x 1" flathead machine screw through a #8 flat washer, then through the hole from the back side of the masonite, another washer, then a nut. A second nut would then be used for securing wires. Each wire is terminated using a ring terminal which are available in various sizes from 22AWG up. Using ring terminals eliminates the possibility of wires coming loose. I purchase them in boxes of 50 or 100 depending on size for around $7 a box at Home Depot, etc. Spools of wire are cheap there too, ranging from 18AWG to 12 AWG. For wires smaller than 22 AWG simply strip twice the length of the terminal barrel and fold the wire over before inserting into the ring terminal. For a two terminal strip cut your strip with 4 holes, two for the terminal and two to mount to the layout, a three terminal strip would have 5 holes, etc.. Always add two holes to any strip for mounting in addition to the number of terminals needed. A panel would use four mounting holes in the corners. A large panel may need more mounting holes. Be sure to label each terminal.
What really works well is to run your wires from the terminal strip at the track feeder,switch machine, light etc. to area panels. To keep things neat, work your wires into bundles from the various strips to the panels. In making the area panels, we use any number of rows and columns of terminals as needed leaving a blank row between each row of screw terminals to provide space for wire. Allocate sections of the panel for track, signaling, lighting etc. Allocate a row or two as needed at the bottom of each section for the common connections where a row of terminals is tied together. Always label each wire at each end. Use a computer database such as microsoft works to keep track what wire goes where.
There is a little more work involved with this method but the results are worth it