Hi everyone,
I just bought a KATO SD40-2 Mid Loco # 37-6614. I have been using Tsunami KT1000 decoders in my Kato locos, but heard that LOC makes a better decoder for movement. Any suggestions?
Marty
Marty www.pbase.com/Hejhog
you tube/martyHejhog1
I can't comment on the specific Tsunami. I'm biased...I've gone to LokSound Select as my go-to choice for the diesels I've been converting, including in my choice the very favorable comments often in the forum about the motor control and the sound files quality and specific loco options.
I did convert an Athearn (2012 era) GP9 factory Tsunami (not sure which one) particularly because of the poor horn sound. I don't know if that's representative of the sound quality of the current Tsunami you are looking at. I installed a LokSound Select AUX6 and switched from the original small oval speaker to twin sugarcube speakers. The sound improvement was quite significant and the motor control quite nice (w/o adjusting BEMF). So if going for the Tsunami I'd want to understand whether the sound files today are improved over yesteryear's.
I've since used LokSound Selects in LifeLike P2K SD50/60s, PA/PB, E6, others and Kato RS-2s and GE 44-9 CWs, etc and been very pleased with the results. I don't know what you plan for speakers nor the provisions for same in your model (e.g., room in the fuel tank / weight). I tend to put dual HiBass 1.1" speakers in the wide diesels (e.g., E6) and 2-4 sugarcube speakers above the weight in the narrow hood diesels, often milling space as needed for the speakers. The decoder usually fits over the motor after removing the original board.
With the Select decoder, you can use the "Direct" replacement board that fits where the factory one was, wiring to the tabs. Or you can hard wire in the Select, which I usually choose (those tend to run $82). In your SD40-2 case I believe the correct sound file is there for you, the 73408 (AUX6) or 73708 (Direct).
Also, you might want to check out the TCS site for an internal view of the loco if they show an example. I think the following one is a motor only conversion:
http://www.tcsdcc.com/Customer_Content/Installation_Pictures/HO_Scale/Kato/EMD%20SD40-2/EMD%20SD40-2.html
And do consider changing from bulbs to LEDs while you're in there, if bulbs are the original lights.
Paul
Modeling HO with a transition era UP bent
Hi Marty:
I'm assuming by "LOC" you are referring to Loksound decoders made by ESU. If so, I can strongly recommend them. I have installed about a dozen. They work properly right out of the box, and they can even fine tune themselves to match your particular locomotive. Locomotives crawl at speed step 1, and I do mean crawl. My HO stuff will move at well under one tie per second. They also have very little heat build up.
Loksound offers a couple of different 'grades' of decoders starting with the Select series and moving up to the V 4.0. The quality and performance of the two is the same. The Select series will do anything you want it to. It is not a low end decoder. The main reason for moving up to the V 4.0 is that it allows you to customize your sound files. You can record your own sounds and install them on the V 4.0. You will need a Lokprogrammer to do it.
I will confess that my experience with Tsunamis is limited, and it wasn't great. I only have two and they are a few years old so things may have changed. In order to get the locomotives to run the way I wanted them to I had to go through some fairly complex CV adjustments. The Loksounds didn't need any adjustments. Having said that, in fairness to the Tsunamis, their operation is actually more prototypical in that the locomotive moves on speed step 1 before the engine revs up, that is once you have played with the CVs to get it to move on speed step 1 at all.
One thing I am disappointed with is that the number of North American sound files offered by Loksound is rather limited. They are planning on releasing more but they seem to take forever to do it.
EDIT: I should have checked the ESU website before saying that. They have many more sound files on it then the last time I looked. Thanks to Mark R for correcting me.
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
As mentioned in another thread recently, Loksound for better motor control and sound. And it's great right out of the box. I usually don't have to tweak anything to get a steamer or diesel to go 1sMPH or < on speed step 001.
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
I've standardized on using only Loksound for sound decoders, my last loco with a Tsunami I traded for the same loco with a Loksound. Prime movers are fairly comparable, but the horns are WAY better in Loksound. Out of the box motor drive is no comparison either, but Loksound also has an auto-configure mode for the motor drive (just need to have enough track space - since it starts the loco at full throttle and runs for some distance to auto calibrate the drive, so it's not something you can do on a short test track).
Since I don't plan on using any other sound decoders, I bought the Lokprogrammer unit to load sounds (costs about the same as one decoder). You don't need this - you can buy the decoders preprogrammed with any of the available sounds from any of the reputable DCC dealers, but this way I can buy plain unprogrammed (they do come with some test sounds loaded) decoder and load the sounds as I need them. In one case, I did customize a sound project by altering the horn - the supplied horn was not the one used on my prototype, but their library of sounds did include the correct horn. It was a simple matter to swap out the one in the project with a new one from the library (I did NOT record and process the sounds myself, this was already done by ESU and provided in a library of sounds they have available), producing the prime mover/horn combination that perfectly fit my prototype. Can't do that with Tsunami - if the horn isn't one of the provided options, you're stuck.
For small applications, until the recent release of the Econami series, the Loksound Micro is much smaller than the Tsu-750, and also does not suffer from heat problems.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
hon30critter .... One thing I am disappointed with is that the number of North American sound files offered by Loksound is rather limited. They are planning on releasing more but they seem to take forever to do it. Dave
.... One thing I am disappointed with is that the number of North American sound files offered by Loksound is rather limited. They are planning on releasing more but they seem to take forever to do it.
Really ? They have three pages of sound files ! What are you needing that they don't have ?
Mark.
¡ uʍop ǝpısdn sı ǝɹnʇɐuƃıs ʎɯ 'dlǝɥ
I said it on the other thread, I will repeat it here: Loksound hands down over Tsunami. Better motor control with best sound I have found anywhere.
And yes, I have units with Tsunami decoders, and units with Loksound decoders. My Loksound equipped units do indeed perform, and sound, better.
It is not even close, zero contest. (Blown out of the water, smoking the competition style.)
Ricky W.
HO scale Proto-freelancer.
My Railroad rules:
1: It's my railroad, my rules.
2: It's for having fun and enjoyment.
3: Any objections, consult above rules.
rrinker I bought the Lokprogrammer unit to load sounds (costs about the same as one decoder).
Well, maybe 1-1/2 to 2 decoders.
I'm a steam Tsunami user, so can't say much specific about the diesel ones. Also, no Lok yet here. If you already have a group of Tsunami locos you want this one to run with, it's usually easier to speedmatch like to like. And you have a loco with a working decoder that is paid for.
And the next gen Tsunami is probably not that far away. The steam ones will likely come first, as it did with the TCS WOW!, another worthy contender. My guess is that they'll be introduced when the much anticipated Blackstone K36 shows up, which makes sense when you read through the product announcement and it does not say it will be a Tsu, but instead a "Soundtraxx Digital Decoder." Best guesstimate is if everything goes right and the K-36 is the annoited loco is next fall around about the Narrowgauge Convention. Then maybe a year after that for the diesel version. You may not have the patience for all that, but it's certain that whatever is next, it will be competitve with current state of the art, given there's been little change in the roughly decade long life of the current version.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
Hi Mark:
I was wrong! I hadn't checked the available sound listings for a while so I just did. I should have checked before I made my post!
Specifically, I am talking about 8 and 12 cyl. EMDs and Alcos. Now there are several. The one file that I still don't see is the Gallopping Goose.
I'll correct my post.
Hi Dave,
Thanks for your input on this topic. I now only buy locos DCC ready. I have held off buying any more decoders, I have 3 locos I need to convert to DCC right now. 2 are Katos and one an Atlas. My BLI SD 7 SP Black Widow is very disappointing. Movement is poor and loses power frequently. So no plans to use them anymore. Katos for me out of the box already have the best mechanics and really fine slow and momentum characteristics. Sounds like all feedback so far is saying Locsound is very good. I even put the old Kato light board with digitrax encoder in my 40 year old Atlas GP 40 yellow box. It is austrian made moves very close to my Katos. Also similar design with 2 flywheels. So anyway I will look at LocSound for the SD40-2 to start with. Or the GP 35 Kato which has the Tsunami KT1000 decoder I installed a year ago. Sounds like I need to really by the Locprogrammer. I had to buy the pp100 from Soundtraxx in order for my Sountraxx decoders to flash properly. I use a programming track. My Digitrax Zephur plus won't do it on the tsunami decoder. Even with the PR3 interface to JMRI. Several volts different I assume? I'm game ! Talk to you later!
Best Regards Merry Christmas!
One correction , the PTB100 programmer from Sountraxx is what I use for Tsunamis. Thanks to all for your inputs on this subject. I will look at LocSound to see which ones I need for my locos. Marty
Marty:
Before you buy the Lokprogrammer I would suggest seeing if you can do the programming you want with just your Digitrax system. I have an NCE Powercab and I have never had a problem programming the Loksound decoders.
I have a Lokprogrammer but I have only experimented with it. I've never needed it to program a decoder. I will put it to good use now that Loksound has made 8 cyl. and 12 cyl. EMD and Alco sounds available. I can download the sound files from the Loksound web site and use the Lokprogrammer to put them into already installed decoders that don't have the right sounds.
Glad I found this this thread,wanted to mention that the Tsunami which is getting pretty long in the tooth needs to be upgraded and was wondering if there were any plans for that with Sound Trax!!
You can do all programming on the Loksound EXCEPT for loading sounds without the Lokprogrammer. Now, if you want to do function remapping - JMRI will do it but it's thousands of CVs to read and write and it takes a long time, with Lokprogrammer is takes seconds (there is a proprietary communication protocol it uses in addition to normal NMRA DCC, this proprietary protocol is way faster because it needs to be able to load large sound files.). No program boosters needed, my Zephyr and my PR3 both work fine. Though, mine will program Tsunamis with no problem either. No PTB-100, either.
Burlington Steam Glad I found this this thread,wanted to mention that the Tsunami which is getting pretty long in the tooth needs to be upgraded and was wondering if there were any plans for that with Sound Trax!!
SoundTraxx has been selling the Econami decoder for some months. A new version. Seeing it discussed a lot in the Yahoo SoundTraxx Group. Don't plane to buy any though. No need.
Rich
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.
Looks like I should get the #73408 Aux 6 decoder (8 pin) using 23 mm round speaker 4 ohm. I looked up the SD40-2 EMD prime mover 645 E 16 Cyl.
The Kato SD40-2 # 37-6614 has the pocket built in the fuel tank for the round speaker. Heard stories that say the magnet will pickup metal debris clogging the speaker cone. I will deal with that as needed. So this is what I will buy. I will try my Zephur and the PR3 first as you suggested also. In your experience with LocSound do I need to have the V4 series to reprogram sound profiles or will the select do it also.
Burlington SteamGlad I found this this thread,wanted to mention that the Tsunami which is getting pretty long in the tooth needs to be upgraded and was wondering if there were any plans for that with Sound Trax!!
As Rich mentioned, the Econami was introduced last summer in three differently sized versions. Soundtraxx invested in a new chip line a couple of years back and this is apparently now in use to build the Econami (at least the smallest size.) Undoubtedly, this form factor will be roughly what at least one version of the next gen Tsunami will be offered in, but there will likely be others.
It's typical in industry to run less sophisticated/dense versions of chipsets first to work the bugs out. There are always chips that don't quite make standard coming off the line. The idea is that as the equipment and people produce, they eventually get to the levels where the maximum potential of the technology is consistently adequate in terms of production quality. I suspect we're at the front end of that process already.
It also pays to remember Blackstone's relationship as a subsidiary of Soundtraxx. It's where the folks in Durango showcase much of their technology. There's obviously limited opportunity to do diesels with Blackstone (although I'm certainly game) but the brand otherwise serves as an inhouse testbed for Soundtraxx.
I didn't attend this years Nat'l Narrow Gauge Convention, but the update from Blackstone/Soundtraxx there was to expect the new K-36at roughly the same time in 2016, to be followed by the K-28. I've already noted the suggestive language in the online product info for these new locos. It's almost certain they won't have the current Tsunami and it's unlikely that Blackstone would install the Econami in these top of the line locos given their high profile.
Keep in mind that this is simply informed speculation from an attentive long time customer. Plus there's the fact that the folks in Durango, while they do enjoy dropping hints as I've noted, generally play their cards close to the chest until they're ready to announce firm availability dates. I'm certain the hobby press will echo quickly any firm info as soon as it becomes available. But I would expect the next gen Tsunami within the next year, in steam at least, with diesel version latter, most likely.
I also expect that when it arrives, it will substantially dampen the complaints they haven't seen much new or improved from Soundtraxx lately. YMMV
mlehman I also expect that when it arrives, it will substantially dampen the complaints they haven't seen much new or improved from Soundtraxx lately. YMMV
Given my limited (and less-than-impressed) experience with Soundtraxx, I'll continue to favor Loksound until said or speculative improvements come.
Tom,
I suspect you're talking diesels and no one's asking you to buy a pig in a poke, just give them a chance when it happens.
On the steam side of the equation, including the often persnickety narrow gauge folks, there just isn't the great gap that some here perceive, mainly because there's been little comparable until the WOW! came along. It's all but unheard of to drop anyone else's decoder into your Blackstone and for good reason, they sound great.
Given the massive improvements in chip engineering a decade makes possible, the sophistication of the WOW! did attract the attention of many and for good reason (although I have no personal F2F experience with the TCS decoder yet.) I'm certain Durango is paying attention to what the competition is up to...it's not like they don't have internet or something there.
Mike,
You are correct. My personal experience with Soundtraxx is only with their diesel decoders; disappointing, to say the least. I have heard their steam decoders and do like the sound but I'm still less-than-satisfied with the motor control. For me - good motor control (i.e. 1 sMPH or <) is more important than sound.
And I'm always willing to give someone a 2nd chance. If and when Soundtraxx does release a sound decoder with better motor control, I'll definitely look into it. Until then Loksound is on my A-list. And, liking TCS for their excellent motor control, I'll eventually look at one of their WOW decoders - i.e. when funds become available.
With the Select decoders (and Lokprogrammer) you cna change the entire sound set. Not individual bells, horns, prime movers. Each sound set usually has an array of bells and horns and sometimes a couple of prime mover variations that are switched between by setting a CV (no Lokprogrammer needed). V4 decoders, you can customize everything - each individual sound can be changed, and you can even alter the 'script' that tells it what sound to play under what conditions. That requires a Lokprogrammer. You can adjust all the other settings without a Lokprogrammer. Unless you are planning to customize sounds to that degree, there's not much reason to use a V4 over a Select. V4 addss some other stuff not in a Select, like support for other control protocols besides NMRA DCC, which, if you are using DCC, are totally useless.
rrinker With the Select decoders (and Lokprogrammer) you cna change the entire sound set. Not individual bells, horns, prime movers. Each sound set usually has an array of bells and horns and sometimes a couple of prime mover variations that are switched between by setting a CV (no Lokprogrammer needed). V4 decoders, you can customize everything - each individual sound can be changed, and you can even alter the 'script' that tells it what sound to play under what conditions. That requires a Lokprogrammer. You can adjust all the other settings without a Lokprogrammer. Unless you are planning to customize sounds to that degree, there's not much reason to use a V4 over a Select. V4 addss some other stuff not in a Select, like support for other control protocols besides NMRA DCC, which, if you are using DCC, are totally useless. --Randy I am having some difficulty finding a supplier for the ESU #73826 decoder. If I have picked the correct one for the #37-6614 Kato SD40-2 diesel with EMD 16 645E3 Turbo prime mover. The fuel tank has a special cut out for the round speaker already. Any suggestions or alternative decoders which fit BNSF line.
I am having some difficulty finding a supplier for the ESU #73826 decoder. If I have picked the correct one for the #37-6614 Kato SD40-2 diesel with EMD 16 645E3 Turbo prime mover. The fuel tank has a special cut out for the round speaker already. Any suggestions or alternative decoders which fit BNSF line.
My problem with Tsunamis isn't that the sound or operating isn't good, it's that they seem awfully difficult to program, and it's not unusual for one to 'lose' some CV settings from one session to the next. I have heard LokSound decoders once or twice and I'd like to try them - hard pressed to see someone on the forum here who tried them and were disappointed. LOTS of people not hot on the Tsunamis.
Marty,
Either Ulrich Models or Litchfield Station will be able to help you and they can install the correct sound file for you. All you have to do is tell them what prime mover sound you need (e.g. the drop-down menu under "*Model Number" for the first link) then pay for it.
Tony's Train Exchange is also an excellent source. I have used them many times:
http://tonystrains.com/
HejhogMarty rrinker With the Select decoders (and Lokprogrammer) you cna change the entire sound set. Not individual bells, horns, prime movers. Each sound set usually has an array of bells and horns and sometimes a couple of prime mover variations that are switched between by setting a CV (no Lokprogrammer needed). V4 decoders, you can customize everything - each individual sound can be changed, and you can even alter the 'script' that tells it what sound to play under what conditions. That requires a Lokprogrammer. You can adjust all the other settings without a Lokprogrammer. Unless you are planning to customize sounds to that degree, there's not much reason to use a V4 over a Select. V4 addss some other stuff not in a Select, like support for other control protocols besides NMRA DCC, which, if you are using DCC, are totally useless. --Randy I am having some difficulty finding a supplier for the ESU #73826 decoder. If I have picked the correct one for the #37-6614 Kato SD40-2 diesel with EMD 16 645E3 Turbo prime mover. The fuel tank has a special cut out for the round speaker already. Any suggestions or alternative decoders which fit BNSF line.
This is where Loksound is best - all that is is the Loksound Select Direct, loaded with the EMD 16-645. Most any place is going to sell JUST the Loksound Select, and will load any sound file for you. You do not need the specific product number that includes the sound file. In fact, you want the dealer to load the OEM sound project made for Kato for that loco, it's number 91491 That is the sound file that comes on the Kato SG40-2 if you order the version that already has the Loksound decoder installed. The item you mentioned is a 16-645 NON turbo sound, which is not correct for the SD40-2
The Select Direct does not come with the speaker, you will have to order a speaker to go with it.
Modeltrainstuff has it, as does Tony's Trains. I didn't check any of the other places.
I plan to install the decoder since my loco just has the light board , I just need the right decoder part number. I deal with Model train stuff already so if I buy from them I should be able to download the correct sound file correct? Yes I need the turbo version as you mentioned. So Loksound select direct is what I want?
ONLY if you have the Lokprogrammer. If you don't then someone (vendor) needs to install the sound file for you.
You'll have to inquire into M.B. Klein to find out if they will do that for you. From their website I could only find ESU LokPilot (non-sound) decoders and ESU "kits" for older Bowser locomotives.
As mentioned, Ulrich Models and Litchfield Station will do that for you and they both have very prompt deliveries on orders. (I've gotten things as quickly as 3 days.) Course, things might get more bogged down with the Christmas holidays just around the corner.
Either LokSound Select or V4.0 will work for you. As Randy pointed out, the advantage of the V4.0 decoder (which is more expensive) comes with the addition of the Lokprogrammer, which is an additional expense ($150+) but allows you to install/manipulate the sound files of ANY of your Loksound sound decoders. You do NOT need it if a vendor is going to install the sound files for you. To program all you need is your DCC system's throttle - i.e. assuming it's not a Bachmann E-Z Command.
Hope that helps...
Tom, Dave,Randy,
Thanks that helps! I use a Digitrax Zephur plus Throttle and have PR3. I had to buy the PTB100 because I could not flash my KT1000 Tsunami decoder with my throttle. I will probably want the Lokprogrammer so I can control flashing. Although in an earlier thread someone was able to use the Zephur to flash tsunamis.