Well, Hello all,
Just back looking for some tips, pointers, websites (as usual).
Everything is coming along right well. At least I find that I am spending more time running my trains than putting them back on the tracks, though , not by much.
In addition to my layout of 2 connected 8' x 4' boards, I just installed a 3'x3' reverse loop to turn my trains around. Instead of using a separate power supply, I wired in a DPDT toggle switch which works, I guess I am having trouble understanding the principle of going into and coming out of the loop, hmmmm.
Also I changed one of my spurs for parking my passenger train into another way that I can go to my upper oval from a connected 8'x4' just by putting in another turnout. And WHOA, all of a sudden I have two power supply units giving power to both the upper and lower ovals.
So I looked at it (the entire layout) for about an hour and came to the conclusion that I needed a much, MUCH better understanding of block wiring, considering my lack of understanding of going into and coming out of my reverse loop.
I have to say though. I am having the time of my life. This is so much fun and enjoyable. I find myself saying at 8am, well I'll just do this....and before I know it I look at the clock and it is almost 2pm.
My son suggested I get into drones but after two months I know I could not have picked a better hobby.
Guys come by and when they see it, they all (to the man) remember a time in their lives (mostly when they were just boys) that they had a train track running.
Anyway, any suggestion, tips or websites to get a good understanding of block wiring would be right helpful 'bout now.
Thanks
cplmckenzie
Most of the beginer books can be acquired temporarily at libraries, those usually have excellent explanations of block wiring.
Lots of info online. Look at the below link.
I recycled my book some years ago I bought at least thirty years ago. Don't remember the title.
http://tinyurl.com/o5hya79
Some will urge you to go to DCC but wiring there has it's issues. I see many questions here about wirirng with DCC.
Rich
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.
The DPDT switch works well with DCC, but first...
In DC, basically you need to reverse the whole main line while the train is entirely in the reversing section. That way, when it exits, the polarity has been swaped to match the physical way the rails turn the train. The train can be either stationary or moving, just has to have all its metal wheels in the reversing loop when it happens. If all you rolling stock has plastic wheels, then you have more flexibility, but metal wheels are otherwise preferable IMO, but that's a different discussion.
With DCC, you have only the reversing section controlled by the DPDT. Again, the train must be fully within the section when it's done and can be moving or stopped. The decoder simply sees "Forward" but now you're matching the polarity within the section to the main, rather than vice versa.
A DCC reverser automates the process. But it costs a lot more than a DPDT. You can always go back and add the auto-reverser later, as the wiring is basically all in place.
For DC block wiring, get one of the books. Kalmbach offers them and there are lots of old school ones around. With DCC, you don't need blocks, but I've found the former DC blocks handy on my layout for analyzing where problems are and isolating them as needed. If you don't have any DCC circuit breakers, still a good option to be able to selectively shut down parts of the line, but not needed anywhere to the extent needed for control on DC.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
Actually good books on DC wiring are suddenly hard to find. I have not seen the new Larry Puckett book that Kalmbach has introduced but it seems to be primarily an intro to DCC with some DC stuff added. Andy Sperandeo's book has been discontinued - it was primarily about DC but with some DCC stuff added. Linn Westcott's book, long out of print, was all DC but spent time on some of Westcott's pet projects such as progressive cab control. I think there was an intro type book by Jeff Wilson that also appears to be out of print.
Perhaps Atlas still has their good wiring book which was almost entirely related to using Atlas components, including their reverse loop component, which called for a certain dexterity.
Whether the old reliable Paul Mallery book is still in print for DC wiring I do not know.
I think the clearest book on DC wiring for the novice is Sperandeo's. If the DCC chapters were simply removed and with some modest rewriting I think it would still have a market as a good and thorough but clear discussion of just about all you need to know.
Dave Nelson
I remember the Kalmbach book now. Had one many years ago. Libraries usually have these books.
Also, common rail is also used in block wiring.
Our club did that back in the early 1980's using #24 telephone wiring. One fellow worked for the telephone company. Fourteen blocks with one reverse loop. One DPDT switch for the reverse loop.
Never a running issue as our HO locos did not draw too much current for #24 wire.
Late 1990's we started using a couple blocks for DCC and the rest, DC. One crossover and smoked the NCE five amp booster. No more DC after that. Had to install #14 wire because we were running as many as eight locos as I remember.
If nothing around you for getting this book, check Amazon.com. Search Amazon for kalmbach wiring. I just did. DC and DCC wiring books.
Reverse loops and wyes are the trickiest to wire because of what was other posts said above, you have to switch the polarity of the track because your north and south rails have to switch for the train to go the other direction. Atlas makes a selector switch for reverse loops and wyes which makes it easier for people who are not electronic wizards. They also make block selector switches which are four SPDT switches mounted together and expandable to infinite number of switches. If nothing else see if you can find the instruction sheets and read them.
I hope this helps.
Two rail reversing loops are direct chort circuits. Draw one out on paper. Trace one rail around the loop. You will find that rail joins the opposite rail, which is a short. Fix for the short, put gaps in the rail to isolate both ends of the reverse loop. Supply power to the loop thru a DPDT reversing switch. So far so good.
Now think about things. Your train enters the reversing loop going forward. It runs around the reversing loop and renters the main line, going the other way. If you don't reverse polarity on the main line, after the locomotive are well into the reversing loop, the come out of the loop into opposite polarity, which confuses everything. Solution, reverse the main line polarity, holding reverse loop polarity steady, and press on.
As for your "both power packs are driving both loops at the same time" problem. You have some how created a sneak path from one loop (one block) to the other loop (block). Find the sneak path, and cut gaps in it. If you are doing snap track, you can find all plastic insulating rail joiners to make gaps without cutting track. Otherwise a cutoff disc in a Dremel makes nice neat gaps. I superglue a tiny bit of plastic into the fresh cut gap to make sure it stays gapped.
You will want to isolate your sidings, so you can pull one train into the siding, kill the power to the siding, and run another train down the main.
Have fun.
David Starr www.newsnorthwoods.blogspot.com
Cplmckenzie,
You should find this link helpful:
https://www.azatrax.com/model-railroad-reverse-loop.html
Info for block control wiring:
http://modeltrains.about.com/od/electronicsdcc/ss/Wiring-A-Model-Railroad-For-Block-Operation.htm
Or if You prefer to watch and listen....some YouTubes....check out the ones listed on side also:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQG26L1TEzM
I still am a DC user...65 yrs. now, but I stay away from reverse loops...not necessary in My opinion... can't see creating a short, on purpose. I would rather change the track plan. Also don't use, common rail wiring. Use both rails insulated, double track mainline. Layout can be switched to DCC use, just by changing the control system. I stayed with DC because it suited My needs and don't care for sound. I do have some DCC W/sound diesels, that I run for the Grandkids, but I can live without it.
HaveFun!
Frank
Hey,
Thanks for all the suggestions, guess I be hunting the web to narrow down some basic wiring reading.
btw
dknelson, these titles came up on an Amazon search.
Paul Mallery Books On Amazon
1. Wiring Your Layout (expanded 3rd edition) - 1983
2. Wiring Your Layout - 1971
3. Electrical Handbook for Model Railroads
Was one of these the one you referred to?
dstarr, what do you mean by isolating the siding. Can this be done without giving each siding it's own power supply unit?
cplmnckenzie
Here's another link for You to look at: You should save these links on Your favorites bar....there is so much free info on the net now-a-days that You really don't have to pay for a book...unless of course You prefer to.
http://www.barstowrick.com/category/block-cab-a-b-wiring/
Take Care!
Ok, first theings first. As ewe know, the LION is anamourd of interlocking plants. So the firtst thing you must do is to draw your layout in a straight line east to west as if it were a single inerlocking plant. Now you can see what you have and where things are going from the tower's view. This is an important step (according to the LION) in wiring a block controled layout. The location of the blocks and the gaps will seem to just fall into place.
As for the reversing loop, there are two kinds (as far as this drawing in concerned), the first is the image of a train departing to a distant destination on one track, and 'returning' from a different destination on the other. The train is going to roll 'off stage' and stop, you will clear the switches, and the train is locked on a dead track. When the train returns you will have to align the plant for the incoming train.
The other kind of reversing loop is one that is wholy within the interlocking plant. But a train is allowed to enter the track, it must stop there, and the plant must be realigned for the train to depart the loop.
In both cases there is no power to the revering loop. It gets power only when a switch is aligned to that track. and only one switch can be aligned to that track at a time, the other is blocked by the interlocking machine. Even if you build not such a machine, you can contrive the power so that both loop leads can not be aligned at the same time.
Layout of LION is a nine mile long reversing loop. The left rail is GROUND, and the right rail is either +12vdc (forward), or -12vd (reversed -- never used on a subway layout anyway. Only the last station, 242nd Street, ties it together as a "reversing loop". But this is a terminal, so the tracks get their power either from the inbound track or the outbound track, and thus people loose sight of what really just happened.
Enjoy... ROAR
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
Layout image links....
Yes, I just took pic of layout. Each pic shows a different section of total layout. I will be posting them now and over the course of the afternoon I will create a diagram of how they link together via turnouts and connecting track. also, will depict the current power supplied to different sections.
I don't know that the reverse loop image can be seen.
http://i935.photobucket.com/albums/ad200/gmckenzie444cplmckenzie/Mobile%20Uploads/14454447396861200306554_zpsrurltqfr.jpg
http://i935.photobucket.com/albums/ad200/gmckenzie444cplmckenzie/Mobile%20Uploads/1445444897590-1642726195_zpsgho3oc8g.jpg
http://i935.photobucket.com/albums/ad200/gmckenzie444cplmckenzie/Mobile%20Uploads/1445445077927527660361_zpsx67cneut.jpg
https://www.dropbox.com/s/nd73da2wyjyc3nr/2015-10-21%2012.09.49.jpg?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/60ji96dibsbnob0/2015-10-21%2012.14.14.jpg?dl=0
Thanks cplmckenzie
New books on DC wiring are going to be hard to find, but old ones aren't. Go on Ebay or go to a local model railroad train show / flea market and you can probably pick up some old Kalmbach or RMC "how to wire your layout" type books for a buck or two each.
There's a reason there are no new books on DC wiring - it hasn't changed! What was true about wiring your layout in a 1950's article is still true today. DC is DC. The concepts are all the same. So don't worry about how old the book is, just get one, and you can learn.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Hello All,
The Atlas; #12 The Complete Atlas Wiring Book, is a great resource for understanding basic to complex wiring of D/C layouts.
Yes, it is biased towards the Atlas D/C components but the Atlas components do work and simplify things considerably.
The book also provides schematics for those inclined to build their own block control systems.
I highly recommend this book.
Hope this helps.
"Uhh...I didn’t know it was 'impossible' I just made it work...sorry"
Here is a wiring diagram to mke your layout work. The blue lines are gaps in the rails you will need to add there are 5 seperate blocks to select cab a or cab b and reversing swithches for the main layout and the reverse loop.
Steve
Steve,
Thank you very much. I will begin implementing this, this week.
A question, What do the 4 little blocks below the DPDT switches represent.
Also, I am looking at getting a "bigger" power supply. I am currently using 4 power units - each 18VAC - 16VDC.
Could you recommend a better source of powering this layout?
Thanks again.
Gary
those are the reverse switches for the blocks. You need to have two for each cab(power supply). One is connected to the reverse loop the other connects to the block selectors (dpdt switches).
You should only need two power supplies. one for each cab. Nothing fancy is needed.