Hi gang, I need some input on my choice of solder on a recent sound decoder install. The decoder in question is a QSI Revolution A, into a HO Atlas (Kato) RSD 4/5. In my haste, I used what was on hand, Radio Shack's lead free solder, 96% tin and 4% silver on all of the connections except the 2 for the speaker. The loco chassis, motor and decoder run, although not quiet as good as I remember before the install. This loco was one of my best runners. Could it be the solder I used? I know now to use the 60/40 rosin core solder for electronics, which I now have. Do I need to go back and re solder everything?
This project has been on my workbench off and on forever, it seems like, but I want to finish it right. All I lack is to connect the speaker and (gently) get everything back under those low hoods. As usual, thanks in advance for any help.
I should also point out that the solder I used was the .032 diameter size, if that makes a difference.
I cannot answer your question as to whether your choice of solder is causing the problem.
But, if it is, Radio Shack sells a copper desoldering braid which will remove every trace of the old solder before you start to replace it with new solder.
Rich
Alton Junction
If the solder joints are good, shiny, and solid with all the strands of wire encapsulated then it is not the solder. The diameter of the solder that you used is quite large. I normally use the .015 diameter for the decoder instals. Being lead free should make no difference. My concern is the amount of heat you would have had to use to get that large solder to flow. My 15 watt soldering iron would take a very long time to melt that solder. I fear you may have overheated those small traces on the decoder.
Pete
I pray every day I break even, Cause I can really use the money!
I started with nothing and still have most of it left!
Thanks, Pete. I used the solder Radio Shack recommended for circuit board work. I will stop there on the way home from work tomorrow and pick up some .015 diameter. I may not change the solder at this point, however, unless someone convinces me otherwise. I share your concern about the amount of heat involved, but do not think the decoder is damaged. I have been down on the layout running the loco on the short address of 3. I also just set up the long address for the first time. I have not programmed any other CV's yet. When I said the loco was not running as well, I should have been more specific. It stalls often when it first starts moving, and sometimes stops on turnouts (Atlas custom). These problems may be resolved when I program the decoder fully, but I got in a bit of a panic when I realized I may have use the wrong solder and now the wrong diameter as well!
Rich, I appreciate your help as well. A desoldering braid or tool sounds like something to have handy. Looks like I need to get a shopping list together. I didn't exactly pick the easiest install for my first hard wiring project, either.
The type of solder generally will not matter (other than acid core - NEVER EVER use this for anything electrical!). If you have a good joint, you have a good joint, although lead-free solders take a higher temperature to melt and could potentially damage things. .032 is ok for the terminals on the ends of a decoder like that, or for deocder size wires, but for extra functions that you need to solder to a small pad on the decoder board, .015 solder is better, along with a fine point on the solderign iron. Most newer electronics are assembled with such lead-free solders anyway - if the package anywhere says RoHS compliant, then it was assembled using lead-free solder.
If you actually bridged terminals, or melted some component from excess soldering heat, then odds are your loco wouldn;t run at all. Your most likely to be damaged componets would be the input power supply for the decoder, fromt he track terminals, or the motor drivers, from the motor terminals. Damage either of those portions of the decoder and it's not going ot do much of anything. Ruin the motor drive, and it may still program, and you could work the lights, but it won;t move. Ruin the input, and it probably wouldn;t even program, no lights, no nothing.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
What does "This loco was one of my best runners." mean? What is the loco doing that is contrary to what it was doing before?Don't expect the loco to run as fast with a decoder as it did on DC. Also, you will have to do some tweaking to the decoder CV's to get the really smooth performance you expect. Decoders form the factory come with general settings. They must be customized to fit each different loco they are installed in. They are not "Plug and Play". They are plug and YOU play with the settings.
Elmer.
The above is my opinion, from an active and experienced Model Railroader in N scale and HO since 1961.
(Modeling Freelance, Eastern US, HO scale, in 1962, with NCE DCC for locomotive control and a stand alone LocoNet for block detection and signals.) http://waynes-trains.com/ at home, and N scale at the Club.
Thanks to all who have replied. Randy, I've learned a lot about different types of solder and diameters. The decoder appears to be fine. I'm going to leave those soldered tabs alone. I have Micro Mark's "economy model" of the Weller soldering station. The one I have has no indicators on how many watts are being used. I usually set it in the middle. Anything less than that, and I can't get the solder to melt.
Elmer, by "best runner" I mean that the loco runs smooth and quiet, with no hesitation or stalls. As I mentioned above, that is what it was doing. I'll get around to programming it in the next couple of days. I finished the speaker and fit everything back into the shell, then discovered that the front weight which the speaker sits on needs to come down another eighth of an inch. But I couldn't help testing the loco with the shell on. The sound is pretty good as it is, so I can't wait to get the shell on tight!
As far as the stalling issue--sound decoders can be sensitive and can stall a lot more than just DC or say a non sound decoder. To overcome that I upgrade the capacitor to about double or triple the capacitance AND(probably most importantly) make sure the track and wheels are good and clean. If you find it runs better at a faster speed than slower, this is likely your problem. Also, see if it stalls at the same area or areas in the track, if so, that could help clear things up.
Richard
Not everyone does what I am going to suggest. In fact, some say it doesn't do any good, but it works for me, and I haven't have any stalling problems since I started doing this.First you need clean track and clean wheels. Sometimes the track is too dry from cleaning. So what I do is put a little of WD-40 on my finger and wipe the rails for about a foot or so. Then I run the loco through it and around the layout. This very minute amount of WD-40 increases the conductivity between the rail and the wheels of the loco. Apply it only once after you have either cleaned the track or loco wheels with alcohol or some other de-greasing cleaner.If you are experiencing stalling on your turnouts, then the turnouts have problems and you need to fix them by adding some feeders to all the rails.About the temperature of your soldering iron; the knob should be set to about 3/4 of the way up for best results. A quick soldering job with a higher temperature is better than a long soldering job at a lower temperature.
Thanks again for the advice. The loco is creeping along a low speed now. The only place it stalls now is on one turnout that my other QSI and Tsunami factory equipped locos creep through with no problem. I'm through for the evening, but will continue to monitor this the next couple of evenings.
Elmer, I may try your WD-40 trick. I've also heard that rail nipper oil is good. And I appreciate the advice on turning the soldering station up 3/4 of the way. The instructions for it were very scanty.
Rail Clipper oil, automatic transmission fluid, and Rail Zip, along with other OILS will enhance for a while but shortly begin to collect dirt. WD-40 and CRC products are very light and don't collect the dirt that the other OILS do.
I've been testing the loco for a few evenings now. The RSD 4 is able to negotiate the layout at a crawl, including the turnouts. The sound is great! Thanks to all who responded to this thread.
I noticed in the new MR that there are 2 articles on installing decoders, one sound and one basic. A 25 watt soldering iron is mentioned in one, but neither article says anything about what solder to use! I guess I've learned the lesson of making a good joint, and keeping the track and wheels clean.
Good solder joints usually come with developing a good procedure.
Very good to hear some good news.
Many want soldering to be plug and play.
Some think they can solder DCC wires with a 100 watt soldering gun. Not going to work. Proper tools and practice will pay off.
Many forget that their PC is a powerful device and can find all kinds of useful links about soldering procedures/products/information.
I have been using .032 solder for many years with a 40 watt soldering station. I crank the temp control down to about half for DCC work and near 100 percent for “heavy duty” soldering. Fine conical tip for DCC and standard wedge tip for general work.
I sometimes use a solder paste that has rosin flux in it for SMD devices. I dip the wire in the solder paste. Put the wire in position and touch the tip to the joint. The solder flows very quickly. Again, a developed procedure.
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.