An old-style ice reefer had hatches on either end of the roof, into which workers would load ice. What was the inside of the car like? Was each end simply an ice bunker, completely isolated from the rest of car? And, did the workers go inside the car, either through the side doors or through the roof, to arrange and re-distribute the ice blocks? I assume there was some sort of convection-driven air circulation system to distribute the cold air, but what did that look like?
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
There were quite a few types over the years before the mechanical refrigeration units showed up. There were end bunkers, top hung ice trays, brine solutions for lower temperatures, lots of different manufacturers, etc. Some were natural airflow, some were fan forced.
There was a good series of articles called "The Postwar Refrigerator Car--A Brief History" published in Railroad Model Craftsman magazine, March, April, and May 1994 issues. Although the title says "brief" and postwar," they do go back into the prewar history, and cover the types in detail. I don't know Carsten's Publications availability of back issues, but you can usually find them on Ebay.
MisterBeasley wrote:I've had an ongoing discussion about reefers with a guy at work who used to watch them loading ice across the lake from his childhood home. He thinks that the crew actually went into the car to arrange the ice, while it looks to me that those hatches were not designed for access on a regular basis. Can anyone shed any light on this question?
It depends on what part of the car they were going into, according to him. The type with the hanging ice bin would have to have people push the ice to the center of the bin. They most likely entered thru the ice hatches.
Also, there were cars used to transport ice, especially before they had mechanical refrigeration to make the ice at the ice houses. The ice would be collected from ponds and lakes and stored in the winter. Since not all reicing platforms were near ponds or lakes, they had to ship it to these houses. But the article implies this was quite a while ago, probably before his time.
Close the door and the light stays ON!
Never mind.......
Bill
"Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig"
TomDiehl wrote: The ice would be collected from ponds and lakes and stored in the winter. Since not all reicing platforms were near ponds or lakes, they had to ship it to these houses. But the article implies this was quite a while ago, probably before his time.
The ice would be collected from ponds and lakes and stored in the winter. Since not all reicing platforms were near ponds or lakes, they had to ship it to these houses. But the article implies this was quite a while ago, probably before his time.
Hi Tom,
I sort of feel someone was putting you on. The bit about collecting ice from ponds I mean. We have had ice in Australia for a long time and the ponds and lakes never freeze over. I do not know how they did it, but they could make ice before they had mechanical refirgerators.
I remember at my grandmother's she had an ice box and the "ice man" would deliver blocks of ice to put in the box. That was before she had a refrigerator. However, I have to admit other people would have had refrigerators by then.
Someone who knows about ice can possibly enligten us how ice was made before the era of mechanical refrigeration.
Mark,
I thought perhaps it was not beyond the bounds of possibility. However, that would be a seasonal thing, and more or less a bonus. They must have had a way to make ice in the summer. I wonder how it was done.
Moreover we had a van, I think its code was MRC, that was a similar principal to US reefers. It was wooden "matchboard" construction so must go back a few years. Where did they get the ice from for that?
bush9245 wrote: TomDiehl wrote: The ice would be collected from ponds and lakes and stored in the winter. Since not all reicing platforms were near ponds or lakes, they had to ship it to these houses. But the article implies this was quite a while ago, probably before his time. Hi Tom, I sort of feel someone was putting you on. The bit about collecting ice from ponds I mean. We have had ice in Australia for a long time and the ponds and lakes never freeze over. I do not know how they did it, but they could make ice before they had mechanical refirgerators. I remember at my grandmother's she had an ice box and the "ice man" would deliver blocks of ice to put in the box. That was before she had a refrigerator. However, I have to admit other people would have had refrigerators by then. Someone who knows about ice can possibly enligten us how ice was made before the era of mechanical refrigeration.
Not "putting me on" but going back in history quite a ways. We have an old restored ice house in Tobyhanna PA (near Scranton) where they reenact the gathering of ice from the pond, usually in January or February each year.
http://www.eandaa.org/meetings.html
Note the second entry.
The road that I live on was originally an indian trail, then when the settlers came, the trails usually became the roads. We live about 100 ft above a river which used to have grist mills, tanneries, foundries and anything else that could make use of the water power. And, in the winter they used to cut ice from the river. A friend down the road actually had an old ice house on his property, midway up the hill between the river and his house. Up on the main road there was a larger ice house which apparently sold to the general public. I seem to recall reading that the blocks of ice were packed in saw dust to slow the melting in the summer months. Ice harvesting and distribution was a pretty busy industry in some rural areas.
Chuck
Grand River & Monongah Railroad and subsidiary Monongah Railway
Question about, "how did they make ice before refrigeration?"
Think of the "evolution" of mechanical refrigeration in three stages.
First commercial mechanical refrigeration with ammonia and the like, requiring a large plant and control by engineers, complicated process, large scale, not automated. I don't know whether or not there was mechnical refrigeration of some sort powered by steam, water power, etc, before efficient electric motors came along in late 1870s, early 1880s, the same time that electric street railways flourished. This is the time when ice made in an ice plant would be delivered to homes for "ice boxes." I also know of refrigeration of some sort in steamships built before World War I. That again was large scale and in an application where there could be an engineer of some sort to keepmit going.
Second stage, home-size electrically powered refrigeration, more or less self-contained. Plug 'em in and defrost them once in a while. I know these were available in the 1920s from old electric company brochures. This technology depends on two factors- the development of the home refrigeration appliance itself, AND the wide availability of electric service in cities.
Third stage, mobile refrigeration units built reliable enough to take the punishment of operating in a moving railroad car. Into general use in 1950s. (some limited earlier use...)
Speaking strictly from my take on ancient photos and drawings, and my personal experience in the colder states of the US:
Before mechanical refrigeration - even before railroads - ice would be harvested from frozen ponds and lakes when the ambient temperature was well below freezing. The workers used the kind and size of saws used in modern single-bucking contests at timber sports competitions. The blocks would be handled like logs, floated to a ramp, skidded ashore and piled up for storage in ice houses, which were large structures with thick walls filled with sawdust. Since a hard-frozen pond could easily have ice two feet thick, blocks as big as 2x2x6 feet were not uncommon.
Harvesting would continue until the ice houses couldn't hold any more. Ice would then be removed and sold to whoever wanted it for whatever purpose. There are records of ice from Wisconsin and Minnesota being shipped down the Mississippi in steamboats so southern planters could prepare ice cream and mint juleps for their summer garden parties.
Usually, just about the time that the last few chunks of ice were melting away in the ice house, returning cold weather would once again freeze the ponds and the cycle would begin again.
During the "back to nature" movement a few years ago, some intrepid soul tried to build a "natural" ice box for his log cabin in the woods, harvesting ice from the pond behind his domicile. He ended up with a box smaller than most domestic refrigerators surrounded by an ice room almost as big as the rest of his cabin - and still couldn't keep the milk from going sour.
Chuck (who is very glad there is mechanical refrigeration)
Heaters were placed in reefers to prevent the contents from getting too cold. (Would you want your shipment of California oranges to freeze on its way to Chicago during the winter?)
Mark
I recall Thomas Jefferson's Monticello had Ice Rooms where they put ice during the winter insulated with sawdust or straw. Then I think they used to surprise the guests with drinks that had ice in them in the middle of the summer.
I am not certifying this tidbit because I was a child when I heard this story during a tour of that Estate.
Thanks to all for broadening my education. Especially Kenneth L. Anthony aka "leighant". I appreciated that succint explanation of the phases of development of ice making. I had a look in your profile Kenneth and found out that your profession is teaching history. Thanks for sharing some knowledge.
I know nothng about ice making, but appreciate the efforts of those who developed the industry especially so that we can have a cold beer on a hot day.
markpierce wrote: Heaters were placed in reefers to prevent the contents from getting too cold. (Would you want your shipment of California oranges to freeze on its way to Chicago during the winter?) Mark
We used to heat reefers in trucking to protect paints and other materials in the cold of winter. The song of the reefer heating is quite different than the roar of cooling.
Speaking of the "ice man", I can remember us using an "ice card". It was a square card (about 12" x 12") and it was printed in four pie-shaped areas, each a different color with the numbers 25, 50, 75, and 100 pounds printed in those sections.
You would hang it by your front door, and which ever number was pointed "up" (12 o'clock position) that was the weight of ice block the ice man would bring inside your house. That had to "run" your ice box until the next delivery...
My uncle was an engineer on the C&EI, and I can remember seeing the icing platform & ice house at the side of the yard he "crewed" out of. They would top load the reefers with blocks of ice from the platform deck, and I always thought that was something neat to watch.
Ahhh, memories... Bob