What's better than a decade-old thread?
A nine-decade old print...
I was not aware of a "Ring Sign" until I came across this drawing. Must have been important enough for the PRR to use them... I've never seen one in a photo.
See you again in nine years or so,
Regards, Ed
geomodelrailroader AAR Rule 30 states "The bell must be on at all times when the train is entering a yard or stopping at a station and must remain on until the train has stopped or has passed a yard limit sign."
AAR Rule 30 states "The bell must be on at all times when the train is entering a yard or stopping at a station and must remain on until the train has stopped or has passed a yard limit sign."
Then along comes the railroad that modifies that rule with the operating rules because of noise pollution-its a good neighbor thing that keeps the NIMBYs happy and the engineer retains his hearing.Make no mistake that bloody bell is loud in the cab.
No engineer wants to listen to a bell ring for hours while switching nor does the switch crew or other employees.
Nor is there is any reason to sound your horn during routine switching as per the FRA and AAR rules allows that. Can you imagine all the racket when there is several yard crews switching-the NIMBYs will file suit.
Ever notice how railroads is moving horns from the cab roof to the hood roof? That's to save the engineer and conductor's hearing? This was mandated by the FRA.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
The SIW sounds the bell when backing into or leaving a siding. The horn is also sounded twice when starting up and I use the grade crossing sequence.
May not be prototypical but since the rules vary so much I made up my own.
My locos are not sound equipped because my ISL is small so I use the MRC Symphony 77 that my wife bought me a few years back.
Joe Staten Island West
Most trains in Canada fall under CROR (Canadian Rail Operating Rules)
Section 13 deals with bell usage, and section 14 deals with whistle -
https://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/railsafety/rules-tco167-163.htm
There were regional or subdivision practices not included in these rules. For example, some CP Passenger trains would blow the horn about a mile before a flag stop.
Ring your bell when it seems logical. I run a small narrow gauge short line and never ring the bell while in normal running.
Approaching a yard or station, slow switching in congested areas or around civilian areas, I tend to leave the bell on.
Needless to say no bell when the engine is stopped for a period.
For the me, the bell is for slow and possibly dangerous operational conditions around humans afoot.
Richard
If I can't fix it, I can fix it so it can't be fixed
SP&S modeler, 1960's give or take a decade or two for some equipment.
http://www.youtube.com/user/SGTDUPREY?feature=guide
Gary DuPrey
N scale model railroader
tomikawaTTNote that judges are seldom chosen for intelligence. How about the one who ruled that both the DRGW and Santa Fe could build through the Royal Gorge...
WHISTLES for Moving, Bells for Stopping - - - - my point - - - - Growing up with the C&NWRR and the SOO Line, and the Milwaukee RR, the Burlington, and the B&O (all c.1952-1960) in the last days of REAL WHISTLES (aka, steam) the standard followed by those Chicago area roads were: Whistles to announce BEGINNING of motion, and warning of approaching Continuance of Motion (crossings, passing through stations, etc) BELLS were sounded when slowing to a STOP, be it in stations, or to track ends, or to switch yard locations of doing a switch back.
About sounding whistles (or anything) when approaching a SNOW TUNNEL? Yikes, guys! Living in California now and studying the CPRR and SPRR history about snow shed mishaps and avalanches, that was something nearly forbidden, lest you start any vibration that starts an avalanche.
Thank you though for the read out sof the Eastern roads rulebooks.... I never cease to be surprised and amussed by the extreme differnces between the ways of the east vs midwest, vs the Left Coast western railroads.
AL
PS, old blogs never die, they just run out of steam when somebody shuts off the fuel
Rich:
I respectfully suggest that your comment could be taken the wrong way. The poster has only made two posts in three years. Your response could be enough to turn him off from making further posts even though he apparently has valid information to share.
When I was first on the forum I did the same thing - I revived an old post. Somebody took me to task rather harshly. (I'm not suggesting that you were being harsh.) I wondered for a minute whether I wanted to continue to participate if I was to criticized for making a simple comment. I responded by asking what the heck I had done wrong. Apparently nothing, but it still left a taste in my mouth for a while.
I've said it before: "What Bambie's mom said".
No offense intended Rich.
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
bobr349:
Don't pay any attention to those who love to point out that you have resurected an old thread.
So what! Its a valid question! The last thing we need on the forum is for somebody going around discouraging members from posting.
When I was first on the forum I revived an old thread just the way you did and got an earful of crap from another poster for doing so. It bothered me for a while until I realized that I hadn't done anything wrong, so I told him so! That made me feel even better!
Somehow I'd never noticed the bell in tunnel thing until just a week ago.
My grandson and I just made another quick visit to the New Braunfels train museum. They fixed the cord on the tank engine bell and we got to ring it some, what fun for a 4 year old (and a 66 year old). I can attest that the steamers probably did not ring the bell longer than needed; it gets tiresome. I presume the diesels have an on/off button they can push.
Paul
Modeling HO with a transition era UP bent
salty4568 NO! No continuous ringing! Any warning sound, whether a bell, siren, backup beeper, etc. loses its effectiveness because people begin to ignore it. How often these days does a person look when hearing a car alarm go off in a parking lot. Emergency vehicles shut off their sirens between intersections when there is nobody close. Approaching grade crossings, passing stations, and when starting to move is plenty unless there's a situation calling for it, such as people on or next to track, etc.I'm a retired railroader and I have many times chewed out my fireman (on steam) for wanting to ring the bell too much. Skip Luke Retired Railroader
NO! No continuous ringing! Any warning sound, whether a bell, siren, backup beeper, etc. loses its effectiveness because people begin to ignore it. How often these days does a person look when hearing a car alarm go off in a parking lot. Emergency vehicles shut off their sirens between intersections when there is nobody close. Approaching grade crossings, passing stations, and when starting to move is plenty unless there's a situation calling for it, such as people on or next to track, etc.I'm a retired railroader and I have many times chewed out my fireman (on steam) for wanting to ring the bell too much.
Skip Luke
Retired Railroader
Reference my Mississippi Central post:
"Tell it to the Judge!"
Note that judges are seldom chosen for intelligence. How about the one who ruled that both the DRGW and Santa Fe could build through the Royal Gorge...
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
Along with other information you have received, the bell is used when a moving train is passing a stoped train be it on a siding or in a yard or station
There was a small boy standing in line at the Bank with His Mother. In front of them was a very large women. The boy comments to his Mother about how large the woman was. His Mother replied that it is not nice to make fun of people. Just then, the women's pager started beeping, the boy shouted, '' Look out! She's backing up''.
Frank
salty4568 NO! No continuous ringing! Any warning sound, whether a bell, siren, backup beeper, etc. loses its effectiveness because people begin to ignore it. How often these days does a person look when hearing a car alarm go off in a parking lot. Emergency vehicles shut off their sirens between intersections when there is nobody close.
NO! No continuous ringing! Any warning sound, whether a bell, siren, backup beeper, etc. loses its effectiveness because people begin to ignore it. How often these days does a person look when hearing a car alarm go off in a parking lot. Emergency vehicles shut off their sirens between intersections when there is nobody close.
Trucks backing up sound continuously.
Rich
Alton Junction
You are correct. Several years ago, I had the opportunity to run the Santa Fe simulator in Lenexa, Kansas. Everytime you used the horn, the bell came on and you had to shut it off manually.
Wow. I thought this was a new thread until I saw that it was dated late September of 2005. And what's more I had replied to it - twice... Thanks for the memory.
Tracklayer
If you model the Mississippi Central from 1936 to the end of steam your locomotive will have two bells. The one overhanging the smokebox door will sound continuously whenever the locomotive is in motion, even if there's nothing but plowed fields for miles around.
That was part of a ruling handed down after a train/school bus encounter at a grade crossing. The same ruling led to legislation that outlawed wooden-bodied school busses in Mississippi.
P.S. If you DO model the above, remind me not to visit.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - where locomotives didn't have bells)
From the Pennsylvania RR Rule Book, Rev. 10/27/57: "30. The engine bell or warning signal must be sounded when an engine is about to move, when running through tunnels, while approaching and passing public crossings at grade and when passing a train standing on an adjacent track."
From the Wabash RR Rule Book Rev 1941: "30. The engine bell must be rung when an engine is about to move and while approaching and passing public crossings at grade."
From both books above: "32. The unnecessary use of either the whistle or the bell is prohibited."
I could find no place in either book which mentions the use of the engine bell. Apparently, the definition of "unnecessary" is up to the individual engine crew.
---
Gary M. Collins gmcrailgNOSPAM@gmail.com
===================================
"Common Sense, Ain't!" -- G. M. Collins
http://fhn.site90.net
I ring the bell without regard to any rules or lack there of. If the engine is standing still and about to move, it rings and continues to ring once moving in a town or in some rapid switching operations in or around a yard. When entering a town or junction at reduced, speeds, especially crawls, it rings. Only at road speeds or in open country is the bell never sounded.
Any train or engine movement in town has the bell on. The towns are all tiny little outposts and switching limited to tiny pockets of congestion with people walking in and around the tracks. The bell saves a lot of noisey and annoying whistling, though the whistle rules are obeyed.
The rules about the bell are your rules and often the rules of the engineer/fireman practiced through the team experience. If there are bell rules regarding when you must ring, on any road, there are absolutely no rules to tell you when it should never ring or be sounded. Common sense should dictate.
zstripe To coin a old line..''.give the guy some slack, he's new to this''. Take Care! Frank
To coin a old line..''.give the guy some slack, he's new to this''.
Take Care!
I was expecting a link from you.
Texas Zepher richhotrain ahh, the old, let's revive a 9-year old thread trick. So???? Is it not still relevant when to ring a bell?
richhotrain ahh, the old, let's revive a 9-year old thread trick.
So???? Is it not still relevant when to ring a bell?
TZ, I am sure that you understand the point of my comment.
In the greater scheme of things, who cares if someone revives a thread that has been dormant for 9 years. You don't. I don't.
But, you have to wonder how this came about. Think about it for a moment. Is someone doing a search for "when to use a bell on a train" and then stumbles onto a 9 year old thread? Was the fellow, who revived the old thread, wanting to give us this NORAC information and chose to reply to a nearly decade old thread rather than simply start a new one?
I just find it curious, that's all.