Texas & Pacific modeling questions

[balearic]

After several years of modeling the Pennsy and Southeastern railroads, I've gotten interested in the Texas and Pacific.

From nosing around on the ]T&P website (http://texaspacificrailway.org/), it appears I may be able to use Athearn's USRA Mikes to make class H-2 engines (800-810). Does anyone know what color/s T&P painted their steamers? I've heard they were green and black, with some sort of graphite smokeboxes and fireboxes, and oxide red cab roofs, but have only found pics of the restored 2-10-4, which seems to be all black. Also, if T&P changed its paint scheme, when did they do it? Finally, does anyone know of a manufacturer that produces the unique pilot and air pump shields T&P used? I have two Athearn Mikes, one with a road pilot, and the other with a footboard pilot. I planned to use the former to make #800 according to a pic at the website, and possibly use the other engine as the basis for a "modernized" engine with the dual air pumps, Elesco fwh, etc., provided I can find someone who makes the pilot and air pump shields. It looks like one assembly to me, but then, I'm just a *** Yankee, so I'm probably blind! [:p]

Also, does anyone know of any HO models of T&P cabooses that aren't brass, or where I can find scale drawings of them in case they need to be *gulp* scratchbuilt?

I saw Athearn has T&P F7s available in two paint schemes. Is the "passenger" scheme correct, or is that just a marketing ploy because nobody has produced T&P E units (that I've seen, anyway).

Last, is there a book available on the T&P that doesn't cost a couple hundred dollars on eBay? I'd like to know as much as possible before diving in, but I'm too cheap to bid on an auction, and no doubt traffic patterns have changed from the transition era to now, so a trip to Texas might not be the way to go, either.

Thanks for your help.

[dehusman]

During the late fifties the T&P was controlled by the MP so MP books and historical societies can also be of use.
The original T&P deisel engine scheme was ornage and black (swamp holly orange). After the MP took control it was changed to grey and blue and then to versions of the MP scheme with TP heralds. There might be one or two TP cars still in service.
Some of their engines (like the 2-10-4 Texas types) were green, but i don't know which ones. The rest were black.
And yes the traffic patterns have changed completely. Actually with the SP merger the T&P has finally realized its destiny as a transcontinental route. Under the MP it was a really big branch line west of Ft Worth.

Dave H.

[balearic]

Thanks for the help. I wasn't sure about the steam engine colors at all, other than reading somewhere years ago that T&P's engines had green or maybe Russia iron boilers. Doing online research, I saw a model 2-10-2 painted olive green/black/red/aluminum with silverish graphite smokebox and firebox, and a blue-gray decapod (I think) with gunmetal smoke- and fireboxes and black cab and tender. and both were lettered T&P. My thinking was that the real T&P painted the boilers green before they modernized the Mikes, and after that painted them black and graphite, but that was pure speculation on my part.

As for hood units, I have the issue of MR where they discussed both the orange-and-black and MoPac blue-and-gray schemes. Just wish I knew whether those Athearn F7s in the "passenger" scheme are legit, though.

Thanks again for your help.

[dehusman]

Depends what you are calling the "Passenger scheme", there are two different blue and grey schemes . A freight scheme and a passenger scheme. According to joe Collias' "The Texas and Pacific Railway", there were 4 TP F7's painted in passenger colors, 1500, 1501,1582, 1581 (freight scheme). There were also 4 F7B's in psgr colors, 1531-1534.

Dave H.

[Anonymous]

The T&P was controlled by the Gould interests and the MoP for almost all of its history. Freight and passenger F and E units were the same as MoP but with the T&P heralds, numbering and lettered Texas and Pacific. Diesel switchers were swamp holly orange and black, with some geeps (pax mainly, but not all) painted blue/grey MoP. The steam loco boilers were painted a color called "light Russian Iron", which was a grayish green with some olive in it. The Southwest RR Hist Society had some at one time and they painted the "Lonesome Mohawk" (the ex-NYC loco that T&P reworked to replace the 648 that was vandalized at Dallas's Fair Park in the early 1950's) with it. You might check with them and maybe they can send you a paint chip you can match. Later everything got to be Jenks Bule with that ridiculous perversion of the buzzsaw that was lettered "Texas Pacific Lines".

[dehusman]

The cool part of the T&P would be either Texarkana where you would get the KCS, SSW/SP and MP or Ft Worth tower 55 with the MKT, SP, MP, ATSF all crossing each other.

Dave H.

[balearic]

QUOTE: Depends what you are calling the "Passenger scheme", there are two different blue and grey schemes . A freight scheme and a passenger scheme. According to joe Collias' "The Texas and Pacific Railway", there were 4 TP F7's painted in passenger colors, 1500, 1501,1582, 1581 (freight scheme). There were also 4 F7B's in psgr colors, 1531-1534.

Here are links to pics of Athearn T&P passenger F's

http://www.athearn.com/Product/Default.aspx?ProdID=ATHG1720

and T&P freight F's

http://www.athearn.com/Product/Default.aspx?ProdID=ATHG1520

So apparently their passenger units were accurate, but they're naturally our of production. [:(!]

I may write that organization for a paint chip so I don't do something dumb. As for what area to model, I was thinking about someplace in west Texas, maybe the area from Odessa/Midland to Abilene or thereabouts, but Texarkana or Ft. Worth might work out better.

[dehusman]

Around Odessa you'll pick up the chemical plants there and you could get the Texas-New Mexico branch, but the train desnity is very low. A through freight or two to El Paso, a train from Odessa to Ft Worth and a local each way a day.

Dallas to Ft Worth would also be a cool piece of railroad. Another TP hot spot would be Marshall, TX, Alexandria, LA (MP, SP) and then the area around New Orleans.

Dave H.

[Anonymous]

Dallas-Ft Worth was also double track with signal bridges, and a very high traffic density. From the 1950's it served the GM assembly plant in Arlington/Grand Prairie, the numerous cement mills along Chalk Hill, the Dallas Naval Air Station and North American Aviation (later Chance Vought Aviation and Temco, then LTV and now I think Lockheed), along with parts of the Trinity Industrial District and numerous industries.

[balearic]

Hmmm, that might work, too. Is there a website, book, magazine article, etc. where I could read more about the D-FW and/or the East Texas to N'awlins lines?

Thanks again for your input, guys.

[dehusman]

Send me your address. I can provide some info that might be of some interest to you.

Dave H.

[balearic]

Great! Thanks a lot, Dave. Where should I send my addy to?

[jimrice4449]

The "Russian Iron" discription above sounds good. It was used on the boiler jackets and cylinder jackets only. Domes, cylinder fronts and saddle and boiler fittings were black. Cylinder heads were silver. If you can glom onto a copy of "The 4300s 4-8-2s Southern Pacific Mt Class Locomotives" on page 79& 80 there are color mixes and a color photo (of a model, but, hey let's not be too fussy). For the T&P shield for the Elesco feedwater heater and air pump shields you might want to try and find some Micro-Scale decals that have them in N and see if they'd work. There once was an outfit (Northern Scale Models I think was the name) that made them in HO as photo etchings but I have no idea about current availablity.

[dehusman]

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[balearic]

I've been tied up lately IRL, so I haven't had a ton of time to dig around too much. However, I've seen a couple factory painted T&P steamers on eBay, and one or two at online stores, and in every case the boilers were painted a color that resembles Tamiya Oilve Green, so that's what I used on an Athearn mike.

I'm still trying to decide between locations to model, but am leaning toward either Ft. Worth or Marshall. Thanks again, Dave, for your help and info. I appreciate it.

[tjsmrinfo]

balearic you might also want to try sherman,texas there was a anderson/kraft food plant here also frisco that probably interchanged also quaker oats plant, a flour mill grain elevator and numerous other industries that no longer exist, t&p probably alos interchanged with the katy (mkt).
the t&p went west to whitesboro junction with trackage rights on the katy to ft. worth and east to texarkana and points east with online industries in bonham and paris and all the small towns in between.

all the other guys also have good information and ideas, your best bet would be to find a book on mp/tp, or email the historical society and explain what you want to do and the information your needing to accompli***his.

hope this helps

tom