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Gantlet or Gauntlet

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Gantlet or Gauntlet
Posted by John-NYBW on Saturday, July 1, 2023 10:53 AM

I recently came across a Wikipedia article about "gauntlet" tracks.

Gauntlet track - Wikipedia

I was a bit surprised by the term because I remember John Armstrong wrote about these in Track Planning for Realistic Operation and I remembered him using the term "gantlet". I just came across my copy of the book and it confirmed that my memory is correct.

Knowing that Wikipedia doesn't always vet their information, I tend to give more credibility to John Armstrong. My question is which is correct or are both acceptable?

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Posted by davidmurray on Saturday, July 1, 2023 11:37 AM

In medieval times, a gauntlet was a leather glove with chainmail on the back.  Hence the term throwing down the gauntlet as a form of challenge.

Mr Armstrong was correct,

 

David Murray from Oshawa, Ontario Canada
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Posted by dehusman on Saturday, July 1, 2023 11:56 AM

From Grammarist.com :

"Gantlet was the original spelling of the word referring to a form of punishment in which people armed with sticks or other weapons arrange themselves in two lines and beat a person forced to run between themIt came from the earlier English word gantlope, which in turn comes from the Swedish gatlopp.1 Gauntlet is an alternative spelling of gantlet, but it also has several definitions of its own, mostly related to gloves."

Technically the parallel tracks should be a "gantlet" because that refers to to parallel lines (as in "running the gantlet"), however every citation lists "gauntlet" as an alternative spelling.

So the spelling is a grey area, or is that gray area?

 

Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com

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Posted by zugmann on Saturday, July 1, 2023 12:06 PM

on the railroad - the fewest letters usually wins.  

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any

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Posted by richhotrain on Saturday, July 1, 2023 12:40 PM

The Chicago, South Shore & South Bend Railroad (CSS&SS) is well known for its gantlet bridge where a fatal accident occurred in 1993. If you Google accounts of this accident, you will find the track arrangement referred to both ways - - gantlet and gauntlet. It is commonly referred to in railroaders' language as "gantlet".

Rich

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Posted by sandiego on Sunday, July 2, 2023 1:20 AM

According to my trusty "Random House Dictionary of the English Language" (copyright 1968) Definition 1 for "gantlet" is the railroad track construction; they even have a good graphic showing a gantlet track. Definition 2 of "gantlet" is an alternate spelling of "gauntlet" for the punishment.

 

Kurt Hayek

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Sunday, July 2, 2023 8:21 PM

If anyone's interested in seeing a real-life gantlet track here's two of them at the Townley Station on NJ Transit's Raritan Valley Line.  The first one appears at 1:25, the second at 5:35.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mvNZhxkNHk

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Posted by gmpullman on Sunday, July 2, 2023 8:42 PM

Another vareity, the gantlet switch:

 Thomas Underwood Coll B&O274 by John W. Barriger III National Railroad Library, on Flickr

The Erie Railroad main line negotiated a ganutlet in downtown Warren, Ohio for many years. That must have been an operating headache:

 Erie_Warren_Gauntlet by Edmund, on Flickr

Howard Street Tunnels in Baltimore:

 Thomas Underwood Coll B&O105 by John W. Barriger III National Railroad Library, on Flickr

Regards, Ed

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Posted by wrench567 on Sunday, July 2, 2023 9:43 PM

 Another use was scale track. They didn't want heavy locomotives on the scale track.

  Gantlet or gauntlet, any way you say it was more common than you think. 

       Pete.

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Posted by Overmod on Monday, July 3, 2023 7:18 AM

Part of this is the early-20th-Century spelling simplification that led to 'gage' in technical terminology (as in 'loading gage').

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Posted by AEP528 on Monday, July 3, 2023 8:08 AM

There's a gantlet switch at the entrance to the Fairbanks Morse plant in Beloit, WI.

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Posted by John-NYBW on Monday, July 3, 2023 2:03 PM

gmpullman

Howard Street Tunnels in Baltimore:

 Thomas Underwood Coll B&O105 by John W. Barriger III National Railroad Library, on Flickr

Regards, Ed

 
Coincidently, this is the July photo on my 2023 B&O calendar.
 
Note the smashboard above the gantlet track. 
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Posted by wjstix on Tuesday, July 4, 2023 3:43 PM

At least in my accent, there is a slight pronounciation difference. The "gant" in "gantlet" would rhyme with "can't", where in "gauntlet" the "guan" would sound like "gone".

Not to throw down the gauntlet....

Stix
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Posted by BEAUSABRE on Tuesday, July 4, 2023 7:49 PM

It's gantlet. Anything posted on Wikipedia should be conmfirmed by other sources

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Posted by AEP528 on Wednesday, July 5, 2023 7:24 AM

BEAUSABRE

It's gantlet. Anything posted on Wikipedia should be conmfirmed by other sources

 

I visited several dictionary sites and they all state that gantlet and gauntlet are variants of each other.

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Wednesday, July 5, 2023 9:29 AM

I've seen both terms used interchangeably on various sites and references. It's not worth splitting hairs over. 

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Posted by wjstix on Wednesday, July 5, 2023 9:37 AM

Overmod

Part of this is the early-20th-Century spelling simplification that led to 'gage' in technical terminology (as in 'loading gage').

 
I like to collect old model railroad "how to" books, some going back to the 1930s. It's interesting that in the early days of the hobby "gage" seemed to be the most used, like "O gage layout". Not sure when "gauge" became virtually universal; just sometime after WW2.
Stix
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Posted by PM Railfan on Wednesday, July 5, 2023 10:47 AM

I always thought it was gauntlet. Never heard of gantlet. Doesnt even sound right. Im still working on that 'plough' word from a year ago Laugh.

 

PMR

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Posted by wvgca on Wednesday, July 5, 2023 3:10 PM

i have always referred to it as a 'gauntlet', i have never heard of it being called a gantlet ???

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Posted by BigDaddy on Wednesday, July 5, 2023 4:36 PM

John-NYBW
Note the smashboard above the gantlet track.

Is that to knock the roof top surfers off?  There have been a couple teen deaths in NY and a mother is demanding they do something to prevent teens from getting out the doors and climbing onto the roofs of cars.  I don't think those kids were going to be the next Steve Jobs.

That tunnel is slated to be made higher to accomodate double stacks, as it was built 128 years ago.  The gauntlet must start in the tunnel.

Henry

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Posted by BEAUSABRE on Thursday, July 6, 2023 12:25 AM

And I have the totally opposite experience

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Posted by BEAUSABRE on Thursday, July 6, 2023 12:42 AM

No, bored urban youth didn't exist in the late 19th/early 20th Century.  It's a signal that 1) is obvious to the crew as it drops an obstacle across the track 2) provides proof at disciplinary and court procedings that the signals were operating with its smashed arm.

Tell tales existed to warn trainmen decorating the tops of cars as part of their braking duties to duck before low bridges and tunnels 

With the elimination of roof walks beginning in the late Sixties, they are gone in most places now - something non-functional to maintain (aka cost dollars)

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Posted by richhotrain on Thursday, July 6, 2023 3:26 AM

wvgca

i have always referred to it as a 'gauntlet', i have never heard of it being called a gantlet ??? 

Never?

Yet, it is the preferred spelling and pronunciation on the prototype.

Rich

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Posted by BEAUSABRE on Thursday, July 6, 2023 7:14 AM

BigDaddy
I don't think those kids were going to be the next Steve Jobs.

Darwin Award candidates, rather

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Posted by Overmod on Thursday, July 6, 2023 7:40 AM

Keep in mind that the etymology here is likely from 'gantlope', which is from a Swedish term meaning 'narrow road' and was used to describe a military punishment, rather than from 'gaunt' meaning thin.

'Gauntlet' in English is itself something of a misspelling, as the French it was derived from uses the spelling 'gant' today for a glove.  I have the sinking suspicion it is related to other words that got a 'u' inserted for other than sensible reasons, like 'honour' or 'colour'... see Fred Newell of the USGS for 'gage'.

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Posted by wvgca on Thursday, July 6, 2023 7:49 AM

richhotrain

 

 
wvgca

i have always referred to it as a 'gauntlet', i have never heard of it being called a gantlet ??? 

 

 

Never?

 

Yet, it is the preferred spelling and pronunciation on the prototype.

Rich

 

 

not up here in canada anyways, it is always referred to as a 'gauntlet' section of trackage ...

never checked a book, just asked a few engineers at CN

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Posted by wjstix on Friday, July 7, 2023 9:05 AM

wvgca
not up here in canada anyways, it is always referred to as a 'gauntlet' section of trackage ... never checked a book, just asked a few engineers at CN

That might explain it, it may be one of those things where maybe "gauntlet" is the preferred British English version, and Canadians use that spelling while Americans don't? Like the earlier mentioned "plow" vs. "plough", or "draft" vs. "draught", etc.  

Stix
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Posted by jeffhergert on Friday, July 7, 2023 7:59 PM

wjstix

 

 
wvgca
not up here in canada anyways, it is always referred to as a 'gauntlet' section of trackage ... never checked a book, just asked a few engineers at CN

 

That might explain it, it may be one of those things where maybe "gauntlet" is the preferred British English version, and Canadians use that spelling while Americans don't? Like the earlier mentioned "plow" vs. "plough", or "draft" vs. "draught", etc.  

 

Or it could be that "gauntlet" is the commonly used term, even if not technically correct.

I think that's probably the case here.  For many years there was gantlet on the CNW across the Cedar River Bridge on the Linn County Railway cutoff that bypassed Cedar Rapids.  Everyone used the term gauntlet, and still do today when reminiscing about it.  It's become so common a term that it's correct  even if it isn't correct. 

Even my spell check changes gantlet to gauntlet, making me retype it every time I write it.

Jeff

 

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Posted by gmpullman on Friday, July 7, 2023 9:25 PM

 Railway Signaling Gauntlet by Edmund, on Flickr

Cheers, Ed

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Posted by Overmod on Friday, July 7, 2023 9:50 PM

Ed -- didn't you post a trade-press article on the Poughkeepsie Bridge a few years ago, that covered the period of time it was operated 'gantleted'?  Seems to me they spelled it without the 'u' in that example.

If I remember correctly they did the same thing on the famous Erie stone viaduct for a while -- how did contemporary references spell it there?

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