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Old modeler returning to hobby - Vallejo Paint "secret" recipes

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  • Member since
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  • From: Miles City, Montana
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Posted by FRRYKid on Saturday, April 16, 2022 2:15 AM

I noticed the mention of a needed mix for BN Green. While I haven't tried either of them; THE Model Railroad Hobbyist’s Guide to acrylic painting ... in a post-Floquil world flyer suggests this: 5pt VMA 71.094 1pt VMA 71.089 1pt VMA 71.095 (The 71 series are Vallejo's airbrush thinned colors) and Microscale's guide suggests Gunze Sangyo 66 (Bright Green). I model BN's rainbow era so I have a lot of use for BN green. However, there are many different iterations of "BN Green" so if it looks close to you it should be fine.

"The only stupid question is the unasked question."
Brain waves can power an electric train. RealFact #832 from Snapple.
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Posted by trainnut1250 on Friday, April 15, 2022 5:29 PM

SeeYou190

 

 
trainnut1250
Ed and Kevin - I'm going to have to try the wet palette. Just curious what is the palette surface material made of?

 

I buy my replacement papers from Materson for mine, IIRC they are about $7.00 for a pack of 25.

They are not normal paper. They need to be boiled prior to use. My wife thinks it is funny to see me boiling paper in the kitchen.

-Photograph by Kevin Parson

The paper is tough, and suffers no damage from tool used for mixing and blending paints. It lets just the right amount of moisture through to keep painted workable for a longer time.

-Kevin

 

Boiling paper??? Love it!!

That's right in line with my other train activities that my wife puts up with; such as baking plaster rocks, grinding bark and leaves in the blender, sifting dirt in the front courtyard, gathering sage brush on our vacations, collecting dirt along side the road, boiling supertree armatures in the crab pot (after thorough cleaning)...I am lucky my wife has a sense of humor...CoolCoolCool

 

I'll have to check out the wet palette

 

Guy

see stuff at: the Willoughby Line Site

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Friday, April 15, 2022 4:38 PM

Kimera paints are another option.

I have never used them myself, but many respected experienced miniature painters are swearing they are the best.

AK Interactive, Turbo-Dork, and Army Painter seem to be equivilent to Vallejo. I am not so impressed with Reaper Master paints.

For metallic paints, Citadel is my favorite with nobody else even in consideration.

-Kevin

Living the dream.

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Posted by richhotrain on Friday, April 15, 2022 1:24 PM

wjstix

Keep in mind the Vallejo paint we're talking about is pretty thick, you can't really 'pour' it. It's more like the tube paints you'd get for doing oil-on-canvas art work. If you've shaken it up sufficiently (I use an electric paint shaker), you can squeeze out a tiny glob of it and it stays in place without running. If it runs, it's not shaken enough.

wjstix

If you really want to dip your brush in the paint bottle, perhaps using Tamiya's line of acrylic paint would work better? They come in 10 ml and 23 ml glass jars with a screw-off top. It brushes on pretty well, but it is a bit thinner than Vallejo tube paint. I use Tamiya spray can paint a lot, their paint has a nozzle that produces a fine spray not that different from a low to medium priced airbrush.

Most hobby shops carry it, but like Vallejo it's primarily aimed at military modellers so you kinda have to test out different colors to find one that's similar to a railroad color.

Interesting about Vallejo being too thick to pour. It is thick, but not that thick.

I have used some basic colors from Tamiya. It is a bit glossy for an acrylic. I prefer a flat acrylic paint.

The search continues for a suitable replacement for Polly Scale and Model Master.

Rich

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Friday, April 15, 2022 1:13 PM

trainnut1250
Ed and Kevin - I'm going to have to try the wet palette. Just curious what is the palette surface material made of?

I buy my replacement papers from Materson for mine, IIRC they are about $7.00 for a pack of 25.

They are not normal paper. They need to be boiled prior to use. My wife thinks it is funny to see me boiling paper in the kitchen.

-Photograph by Kevin Parson

The paper is tough, and suffers no damage from tool used for mixing and blending paints. It lets just the right amount of moisture through to keep painted workable for a longer time.

-Kevin

Living the dream.

  • Member since
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  • From: Mpls/St.Paul
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Posted by wjstix on Friday, April 15, 2022 11:58 AM

If you really want to dip your brush in the paint bottle, perhaps using Tamiya's line of acrylic paint would work better? They come in 10 ml and 23 ml glass jars with a screw-off top. It brushes on pretty well, but it is a bit thinner than Vallejo tube paint. I use Tamiya spray can paint a lot, their paint has a nozzle that produces a fine spray not that different from a low to medium priced airbrush.

Most hobby shops carry it, but like Vallejo it's primarily aimed at military modellers so you kinda have to test out different colors to find one that's similar to a railroad color.

Stix
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Posted by gmpullman on Friday, April 15, 2022 11:42 AM

trainnut1250
Just curious what is the palette surface material made of?

Parchment paper or some call it baking paper. Easily obtained at any grocery store.

Good Luck, Ed

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Posted by trainnut1250 on Friday, April 15, 2022 11:39 AM

I rarely use paint straight out of the bottle when brush painting. I usually put it on a foil palette and thin it/mix colors.

Ed and Kevin - I'm going to have to try the wet palette. Just curious what is the palette surface material made of?

Guy

see stuff at: the Willoughby Line Site

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Posted by wjstix on Friday, April 15, 2022 9:04 AM

Keep in mind the Vallejo paint we're talking about is pretty thick, you can't really 'pour' it. It's more like the tube paints you'd get for doing oil-on-canvas art work. If you've shaken it up sufficiently (I use an electric paint shaker), you can squeeze out a tiny glob of it and it stays in place without running. If it runs, it's not shaken enough.

For things like figures (what I primarily use it for) just a small bit of it goes a long way. Note too that it is an acrylic (water based) so the glob dries pretty quickly, another reason to use a tiny amount at a time.

Vallejo does also offer a range of more fluid paints designed to be used in an airbrush by the way....

https://acrylicosvallejo.com/en/category/model-air-en/

Stix
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Posted by SeeYou190 on Friday, April 15, 2022 1:54 AM

As shown in the video, I cannot stress enough how awesome an improvement a Wet Pallet is for brush painting.

Mine is made by Masterson, and I bought it from Dick Blick.

-Photograph by Kevin Parson

I heard about them for years before I bought one. Before this I used a 6 by 6 glossy white bathroom tile as a pallet.

The tile worked well, but the wet pallet is much better.

-Kevin

Living the dream.

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Posted by gmpullman on Friday, April 15, 2022 1:46 AM

richhotrain
That is an interesting comment, Ed, about dipping the brush directly into the paint bottle causing the paint to get lumpy prematurely.

I sometimes sneak over to that site hosted by Joe Fugate and occasionally he has one of these "Ah ha!" moments where he passes on tips. He did a series on "proper" brush painting and I tried adopting these. Never too old to learn new tricks Cool

Regards, Ed

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Posted by richhotrain on Thursday, April 14, 2022 7:50 PM

Deane Johnson

The small spout on Vallejo is especially nice when you're filling the paint cup on an airbrush.  I usually make a mess pouring from a large mouth bottle into an airbursh so the Vallejo approach is a major step ahead for me.

For small amounts of work, I put a small drop on my glass covered workbench and dip the brush into it. 

I don't airbrush, so filling the paint cup from the small spout isn't part of my painting procedure.

For small amounts of work, I can see where just pouring some paint on a piece of glass and dipping the brush into it would work, but a lot of my brush painting is on large brick structure walls. That requires a lot of paint, so dipping my brush into the bottle makes more sense.

What I am considering going forward is to pour the entire contents of the Vallejo bottle into a 1 ounce Polly Scale bottle so I can benefit from the wider opening in the Polly Scale bottle. Fortunately, I clean out and keep old Polly Scale bottles.

Rich

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Posted by richhotrain on Thursday, April 14, 2022 7:43 PM

gmpullman

I've found that dipping the brush directly into the paint bottle causes the paint to get lumpy prematurely.

My next "big thing" is to look into a "wet palette" which will keep the acrylics fluid for longer periods and some can be sealed if you need to take a break and they will keep the paint from drying out. 

Deane Johnson
The small spout on Vallejo is especially nice when you're filling the paint cup on an airbrush.  I usually make a mess pouring from a large mouth bottle into an airbursh so the Vallejo approach is a major step ahead for me. 

I agree on the airbrush color cup. For dispensing paints, thinners and water I use the "hummingbird" droppers, or transfer pipettes. They're ideal for dispensing paints into color cups and you can easily measure your ratios with them, too. 

richhotrain
At that point, I realized that the spout could be removed to access the paint 

Be sure to put the dropper tip back in otherwise the cap will not seat and prevent air from entering.

Good Luck, Ed 

That is an interesting comment, Ed, about dipping the brush directly into the paint bottle causing the paint to get lumpy prematurely. I have not had that experience. Until I bought my first bottle of Vallejo Model Color paint this week, I have always brush painted with Polly Scale Acrylic paints or Model Master Acrylic paints. My practice is to always dip the brush into the bottle.

I do replace the dropper tip back on top of the Vallejo bottle for the reason you mentioned.

Rich

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Posted by gmpullman on Thursday, April 14, 2022 7:10 PM

wjstix
I'm assuming this is a joke, but anyway, just squeeze a drop or two of paint onto or into something, then dip the brush in that.

The Vallejo dropper bottle is one of my favorite features of the paint. I bought a bag of similar bottles from Amazon just so I can keep some of my "custom mixes" in their own dropper bottle.

I've found that dipping the brush directly into the paint bottle causes the paint to get lumpy prematurely.

My next "big thing" is to look into a "wet palette" which will keep the acrylics fluid for longer periods and some can be sealed if you need to take a break and they will keep the paint from drying out.

Deane Johnson
The small spout on Vallejo is especially nice when you're filling the paint cup on an airbrush.  I usually make a mess pouring from a large mouth bottle into an airbursh so the Vallejo approach is a major step ahead for me.

I agree on the airbrush color cup. For dispensing paints, thinners and water I use the "hummingbird" droppers, or transfer pipettes. They're ideal for dispensing paints into color cups and you can easily measure your ratios with them, too.

richhotrain
At that point, I realized that the spout could be removed to access the paint

Be sure to put the dropper tip back in otherwise the cap will not seat and prevent air from entering.

Good Luck, Ed

 

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Posted by Deane Johnson on Thursday, April 14, 2022 4:04 PM

The small spout on Vallejo is especially nice when you're filling the paint cup on an airbrush.  I usually make a mess pouring from a large mouth bottle into an airbursh so the Vallejo approach is a major step ahead for me.

For small amounts of work, I put a small drop on my glass covered workbench and dip the brush into it.

  • Member since
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  • From: Dearborn Station
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Posted by richhotrain on Wednesday, April 13, 2022 11:11 AM

wjstix
 
richhotrain

I bought a bottle of Vallejo Model Color Dark Sand yesterday. How the heck do you get a paint brush into the small bottle? Yikes!

Rich 

I'm assuming this is a joke, but anyway, just squeeze a drop or two of paint onto or into something, then dip the brush in that. I use a small clear plastic "cup" left over from a blister pack of some small item or another I bought a while back. I assume some art manufacturer makes small palettes or something you could use too. 

Hi, stix.

No, not really a joke. At the time that I wrote that post, I had not unscrewed the cap. Once I did, and before I read your post, I discovered that the cap was screwed onto a spout with a tiny opening.

So, then I really wondered how I would access the paint inside the bottle. I couldn't imagine that the manufacturer intended the paint to be dribbled out through the tiny opening in the spout onto the brush. I am used to Polly Scale and Model Master where you dip the brush into a wide mouth opening at the top of the bottle.

At that point, I realized that the spout could be removed to access the paint through a wider opening at the top of the bottle but still a small opening, maybe 1/4".

Anyhow, the paint went on smoothly with a small brush, and two coats did the trick.

Rich

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Posted by wjstix on Wednesday, April 13, 2022 9:41 AM

BEAUSABRE
Many times you will hear people saying, "The manufacturer says they matched it to a paint sample/official specification but it doesn't look right." That's because our indoor lights don't match sun light, weather conditions vary (amount of overcast, time of day, etc) and because prototype paint fades in the sun.

I remember in the early days of Stewart they came out with a Burlington Route F-unit that was painted based on an actual CB&Q chip. The engines were roughly primer gray, but in photos the real engines looked white because of the difference of bright sunlight compared to indoor lighting. Many folks and reviewers complained about the color, although it was technically correct.

I read that our model 'cousins' who do military modeling often add white to the 'correct' shade of paint to compensate for the lighting difference between sunlight and artificial light.

Stix
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Posted by wjstix on Wednesday, April 13, 2022 9:37 AM

richhotrain

I bought a bottle of Vallejo Model Color Dark Sand yesterday. How the heck do you get a paint brush into the small bottle? Yikes!

Rich

 
I'm assuming this is a joke, but anyway, just squeeze a drop or two of paint onto or into something, then dip the brush in that. I use a small clear plastic "cup" left over from a blister pack of some small item or another I bought a while back. I assume some art manufacturer makes small palettes or something you could use too.
Stix
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Posted by richhotrain on Wednesday, April 13, 2022 6:36 AM

I bought a bottle of Vallejo Model Color Dark Sand yesterday. I will apply it today without priming the styrene first. How the heck do you get a paint brush into the small bottle? Yikes!

Rich

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Posted by BEAUSABRE on Tuesday, April 12, 2022 7:20 PM

As for paint seeming "off", that's often due to lighting conditions. Many times you will hear people saying, "The manufacturer says they matched it to a paint sample/official specification but it doesn't look right." That's because our indoor lights don't match sun light, weather conditions vary (amount of overcast, time of day, etc) and because prototype paint fades in the sun. Plus we all see color differently (If you want to start a flame war, say you have the absolutely correct recipe for PRR's Dark Green Locomotive Enamel aka "Brunswick Green" or for PRR's Freight Car Color - that was its name for "Boxcar Red"). And to make matters worse, if you take some cars that look fine to you on your layout, to your buddy's pike, they may look "off" under its lighting system (Maybe we need an NMRA Recommended Practice on layout lighting?)

Bottom line - choose the model paint that works best for you and if that doesn't satisfy, experiment with your own home brewed mixture (using scrap plastic or cars you don't mind maybe having to strip and repaint), both under your layout's lights. 

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Posted by wjstix on Tuesday, April 12, 2022 4:00 PM

I primarily use Vallejo paints for painting figures and I found it does work better with a primer or other layer of paint already on the figure.

Since right now I'm primarily painting seated figures for passenger cars I save time by spraying the figures with Tamiya spray can paints, then use those colors as the main color of the figure's clothes.

So like Walthers seated comes with 4 sprues, each with the same 18 figures. I might spray one sprue gray, one brown, one blue and one green...whatever paints I have on hand from other projects.

The Vallejo paint brushes on better with the sprayed on paint than on bare plastic, and it saves a lot of time and effort. In some cases, just painting the face, hair and hands is all that's needed, since the seated figures won't be all that visible anyway.

Stix
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Posted by snjroy on Tuesday, April 12, 2022 10:16 AM

I also find that Vallejo does not stick as well as Proto-paint and Polly scale (which I think were the same manufacturer). I'm not sure it's too critical for structures, but I prime all my rolling-stock before painting with Vallejo. 

Simon

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Posted by richhotrain on Tuesday, April 12, 2022 6:40 AM

Thanks, Kevin. I am going to try it without any primer.

Rich

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Tuesday, April 12, 2022 12:27 AM

richhotrain
Do Vallejo Model Color paints require a primer coat?

Rich,

I do not know if a primer coat is "required" or not.

As I have developed my painting skill/style I have found that a Matte Black primer coat gives me the best results. As such, I prime everything that I am going to brush paint with a coat of black.

Every experienced figure painter you ask will give you a different answer.

Marike Reimer is my favorite figure painter. I follow her techniques and advice as closely as my skills will allow.

If you Google her name, you can see what I mean.

She used to have a bunch of How-To videos on YouTube, but since she started her own brand I think those are gone.

-Kevin

Living the dream.

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Posted by richhotrain on Monday, April 11, 2022 2:44 PM

SeeYou190

I have used Vallejo paints for years and years.

Between the three main lines, Model Colour, Game Colour, and Panzer Aces, anything is pretty mach available.

Colour charts can be dowloaded for all three lines.

-Kevin

Kevin, do Vallejo Model Color paints require a primer coat when used to brush on styrene?

Rich

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Posted by John66 on Sunday, April 10, 2022 4:19 AM

Thank you all for the update.

Yes I am a "Canuck" in the  Toronto Area; I will most definately check out  Georges Trains ( one of two landmark Train shops in the Greater Toronto Area).

May be forced to drop Vallejo though I really like the paints.

Kevin

I started at the 'local hobby shop' and got the Vallejo paints. Not really a 'train' shop though he had a few odds and ends. 

You specifically mention colour charts for CN CP and BN (mid 1980s?). 

Do you have a link for those charts ?

That was something I was looking for - the specific or line specific mixes. The charts I downloaded /reviewed did not have a lot of detail specific to  those three lines.... most were sort of generic

(albiet UP Armor Yellow was well documented....popularity no doubt) Smile

The Orange is "too orange" for CN Red/Orange on the nose (opinion)

The Green is  "too forest" for BN Cascade Green (opinion)

The Red for CP Rail looks close

German Red Brown and Red Brown 50-50 did a great job on box cars giving them a slightly 'sun faded look'... it was air brushing a few box cars that sold me on Vallejo.

 

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Thursday, April 7, 2022 11:35 AM

I have used Vallejo paints for years and years.

Between the three main lines, Model Colour, Game Colour, and Panzer Aces, anything is pretty mach available.

Colour charts can be dowloaded for all three lines.

-Kevin

Living the dream.

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Posted by wjstix on Thursday, April 7, 2022 11:06 AM

OK, ya I was thinking of "Proto-Paint" which is/was Rapido. Tru-Color is something different.

Embarrassed

Stix
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Posted by snjroy on Wednesday, April 6, 2022 1:32 PM

Rapido is based in the Toronto area, in Ontario Canada. Tru-Color is based in Phoenix AZ.  What is the connection between both?

Simon

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