NYC NW2s: Air horn ID and window coverings

[tstage]

Greetings,

I just picked up an undecorated Walthers Mainline NW2 switcher that I'll be installing a Loksound 5 micro Next18 decoder and speaker into.  The undecorated version comes with a LOT of detail parts for appropriately detailing the shell to your road name and/or era.  I also have an older Kato NW2 that I'll eventually convert to DCC after I modify the chassis to fit a decoder; NOT a small task.

Anyhow, the Walthers NW2 is the Ph 5 body type and the Kato NW2, the Ph 1-4 body type.  Using the archival photos from the NYCSHS and Fallen Flags websites, I believe the NYC Ph 5 NW2s were outfitted with Leslie A200 air horns; same as those used on their SW7s.  The early NYC Ph 1-4 NW2s, OTOH, show a much smaller, more diminutive looking air horn, as the one pictured below:

These were used up into the 60s, with some NYC NW2s eventually being outfitted with larger Leslie A200 air horns.

Is what is pictured above on the front of the cab just above the front windows an air horn?  The small vertical projection in the 2nd photo above looks to be some sort of rotary beacon.

Also, I found a considerable number of photos of NYC NW2s (like the 2nd photo) showing the middle two front window panes covered with some kind of dark material (canvas) or wood(?).  What would be the purchase for doing this?  It doesn't look like the coverings are retractable or can be rolled up.

Thanks in advance for any help you might be able to offer.

Tom

[gmpullman]

Just a few random thoughts about your questions, Tom. I can dig into the details later as I find more info.

Some of the early switchers had air whistles just like you'd find on an MU car or gas-electric "doodlebug".

The Leslie A200 is a pretty big horn. Switchers more likely had A-125s or even A-75s (125 or 75 millimeter diaphragm size) Many B units were equipped with A-75s.

Windows? Probably for economy, and they were probably always filthy anyway, plate them over and be done with them. After about 1980 the FRA began to specify Part 223 glazing of forward facing glazing requiring strict compliance. Many caboose and locomotive windows, unless absolutely necessary, were plated over, sometimes in not a very attractive appearance.

I recall reading that the light on the cab roof was tied into the yard communication system. Note the two-way speaker on the pilot. I believe I was once told that when the light was on the yardmaster was supposed to be contacted, kind of a "message waiting" light.

I have a book of NYC radio rules around here somewhere. I'll see if there is any mention of it in there.

In the early days of switchers equipped with yard radios there was a bit of friction since engineers did NOT want to take instructions directly from a yard master. That's the conductor's job. You tell the conductor what you want done and HE will tell me. There was some give-and-take between the B of LE and UTU over this.

I'll get back if I uncover anything more.

Good Luck, Ed

 

[tstage]

Thanks for the initial info, Ed.   Here's the horn on a Ph 5 NYC NW2 (ca. 1965):

Here appears to be the same horn on an NYC SW7 (ca. 1951):

These appear to be closer to the Leslie A125s?:

Tom

[gmpullman]

Looks about right  

Leslie-Typhon_crop by Edmund, on Flickr

Cheers, Ed

[wjstix]

Keep in mind there can be a difference between a builder's photo of an engine vs. an 'in service' photo. Railroads sometimes bought engines without bells or horns/whistles etc. and added them on their own at their shops. The photos that show an NYC switcher apparently without a horn might be a builder's photo, or a photo NYC took when they first got the engine.

[tstage]

Thanks, Stix.  According to my NYC reference books & material, the majority of NYCS NW2s were purchased between 1946 & 1949 by the NYC, P&LE, and the IHB; with a few more obtained from other RRs in the mid-50s.  Therefore, posted photos were definitely units "in service" rather than builder's photos.  Builder's photos are usually fairly obvious because the paint job is pristine and has a high sheen to it.  The posted photos definitely show oxidized paint.

Okay, I just learned from Seth Lakin (NYCSHS modeler committee chairman) that the early NW2 were "delivered with air whistles", with later ones delivered with air horns.  While the IHB replaced their air whistles with air horns within a couple of years of delivery, the "NYC units kept the whistles well into the Conrail era".

I was wondering if the petite-looking device on the upper front face of the cab was some sort of air whistle but I wasn't positive.  Does anyone recollect if there is a sound file for an air whistle from any of the Big Three sound decoder manufactuers?  How different would they sound from a steam whistle?

Thanks,

Tom

[gmpullman]

If they were multi-chambered they would have a tonal chord sound (three chimes were common).

The somewhat popular Hancock Air Whistle was sometimes used without its directional funnel. Some Hancock air whistles were applied to NYC E7s (4004 and 4006 at least) in 1961 as a trial. I don't recall seeing any on switchers.

http://locomotivehorns.info/other/h4710_030614_3.wav

 

NYC_4004_E7-Hancock by Edmund, on Flickr

The New Haven was a big user of them. Most roads found that they didn't have sufficient wolume to provide good protection at crossings.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hancock_air_whistle

There is a sound file at the bottom of the article. It does have a sound reminicent of a steam whistle. The whistles as applied to early EMD switchers were flat against the cab wall and difficult to discern. Of course, photos are hard to come by.

I recall seeing an CR&I (NYCS) Lima-Hamilton switcher that had both a Leslie horn and a single-note air whistle. If a switcher was assigned to road or transfer service it would probably be a contender to have a larger, louder horn installed. For strictly yard use the smaller whistle or A-125 would do.

NYC_SW1_580 by Edmund, on Flickr

Another look at the 4004 with the Hancock Air Whistles:

rn3-14cr by George  Hamlin, on Flickr

Here's an SW-1 that definitely has a larger, possibly A-200 air horn fitted:

New York Central EMD SW1 8428 by Craig Garver, on Flickr

Too large to fit under the roof overhang without flipping the bracket 180°.

THIS one still has the whistle and it is clearly visible and you can enlarge the photo quite a bit:

New York Central EMD SW1 8406 by Craig Garver, on Flickr

Another comment on window blanking: Sun glare. I've seen cab windows, even on main line engines, where the provided sun visors weren't sufficient. Crews would tape up newspaper or the ever-popular C fold towels provided in the "Crew-Packs" to stem the unwanted glare. 

 

Good Luck, Ed

[wjstix]

TCS "Wow Sound" diesel decoders have a Hancock Air Whistle as one of the 'horn' options. I think ESU decoders have it too, or at least you can download it to a decoder using a LokProgrammer.

Of course I can't find it now, but a few weeks ago I was looking at an announcement about a new run of HO EMD switchers. I can't recall the maker. Anyway, I noticed some of the engines had the center windows, some didn't. So maybe that was like a factory option - some railroads chose to have them, some chose not to.

It could be all came with windows but some railroads plated them over. I seem to remember some time back reading something about the windows being a problem - breaking easily or something - that caused railroads to plate them over, but again not sure where I read it.

Perhaps someone else will remember?

[gmpullman]

I believe it was my New Haven FL9 that was my first locomotive equipped with Hancock Air Whistles.

 

These have custom Loksound Select decoders but many other ESU sound projects also have them available.

 

FL9_Hancock by Edmund, on Flickr

As I mentioned in an earlier reply the FRA Part 223 glazing standards for railroads had a big impact on the number and sizes of glazing on any equipment carrying passengers or personnel. 223.1 Scope. This part provides minimum requirements for glazing materials in order to protect railroad employees and railroad passengers from injury as a result of objects striking the windows of locomotives, caboose and passenger cars.

 

The forward facing windows (on cab cars and cabooses, too) had higher impact standards. I recall in the '70s there were lots of rocks being thrown and in some cases cinder blocks suspended from bridges.

Lots of Northeaset locomotives got "burglar bars" over their windshields. Re-equipping a caboose or switcher cab with Lexan polycarbonate or other glazing equal to the standards was an expense the railroads didn't want. Steel was cheaper.

Good Luck, Ed 

[tstage]

I confirmed this evening that ESU has a Hancock air whistle listed in their Loksound Template Pack under LokProgrammer4\Templates\Airhorns\USA\MISC Airhorns.  It's very "wooty", which is what I kinda expected from a diminutive whistle.

Tom