wjstixWhen you say it's all wood, do you mean the model is made of wood, or it's a model of a wood passenger car, or both? If the model is wood, it might be a LaBelle kit someone built. I'm guessing you bought it like a RR flea market or something, already built??
Both. A wooden model of a wooden combine, and yes, I got it at a swap meet.
The only identifying branding on it is the name Central Valley on the trucks (well... and the Kadees). I don't know if that means that Central Valley made just the trucks or made the whole car.
Returning to model railroading after 40 years and taking unconscionable liberties with the SP&S, Northern Pacific and Great Northern roads in the '40s and '50s.
That car is a model of a Boston and Maine RR combine made by the Ambroid Company in the 1950s/early 1960s. The prototypes lasted until the mid-late 1950s when B&M killed steam and most locomotive-hauled commuter trains with a huge (108 cars, the world's largest) horde of Budd Rail Diesel Cars.
Ambroid was a highly respected manufacturer of basswood kits for passenger and freight rolling stock. Their prototypes were drawn from mostly eastern railroads, B&M in particular, because they (Ambroid) were located somewhere in eastern Massachusetts, north of Boston. They were respected as makers of the best cement available for any type of wood model you wanted to build-land, sea or air.
I built their one-of-5000 kits for a Pennsylvania/Fruit growers Express reefer based on the Pennsy X-23 boxcar, a two car kit for a pair of Bangor and Aroostook/Maine Central 70 foot pulpwood cars and wish I had back all the hours I spent trying to make the wood in the first kit to build an ACF Center Flow 5250 cubic foot capacity covered hopper look like steel. I was not able to make wood pass for steel and, moved on beyond models stuck in the past, into the world of plastic.
At the same time Ambroid was ruling the wood kit world, Central Valley was the cat's meow in HO trucks. They were all metal, had reasonable flanges at a time many thought the answer to derailments was deeper, sharper, "pizza cutters" running on code 100 brass rail, afixed to fibre tie strips with simple staples-pulled by our Santa Fe F-7 with warp speed rubber band drive-on 12 volts of DC from a rectifier-controlled by a rheostat! MY how things have changed.
What you have there sir is, a piece of model railroading history from 65-70 years ago.
I doubt that Central Valley did the car, as there were lots of manufacturers making kits for wooden passenger cars. When the Central Valley trucks first appeared, they were widely accepted due to both the good detail and particularly for their fine rolling qualities.Whenever I'd have a little extra cash burning a hole in my pocket, I'd spring for a pair or two. I occasionally see them at train shows, too. I'm currently working on a bunch of wooden headend (baggage) cars, both for myself and a couple of friends, both of whom have donated some CV trucks for the project. I have enough of them for my own 5 or 6 cars, and those others will be enough for my friends' cars.I'll be using Evergreen passenger car siding, in styrene, to represent the wood, though, as it's "board" spacing is more prototypical.
Here are a few that I kitbashed from Athearn coaches...(photos will enlarge if clicked upon)
...while these were originally Rivarossi coaches...
Some of the ones that I'm planning to build will be from Rivarossi coaches, while the rest will be mostly scratchbuilt.
Wayne
crossthedog I have 24" curves on my mainline and my branch will have 18" curves, so most of my passenger cars will have to stay on the mainline, but I have a shorty combine that could tag along on a mixed local up the branch for the few passengers going to the town of Priest River. However, the branch is a dead end line. I thought of putting a small turntable at the terminus to flip the engine, and then it occurred to me that even if I turned the engine, the combine would have to be backed down the branch, and I think it would look silly to have the coach end forward. So... Have any of you ever heard of turntables being used to turn not locos but cars? My thought was, have two tracks coming into the turntable. The engine drops the combine at the wee station, then goes to the turntable, turns, and comes out on a sort of escape track -- a second track out of the turntable -- and after spotting and picking up cars at the industries around Priest River town, the engine comes back to the station with the empties, uses them to push the combine onto the turntable, the combine gets turned and brought back to the station headed in the home direction to pick up passengers again. I guess a second question is, have any of you ever heard of combines running coach end forward, because if this is not a capital offense agains railway protocol I could skip the turntable completely -- branchwork will be done mostly by road switchers anyway. Wild guesses and rash opinions welcome. I only need the slightest justification. -Matt
I have 24" curves on my mainline and my branch will have 18" curves, so most of my passenger cars will have to stay on the mainline, but I have a shorty combine that could tag along on a mixed local up the branch for the few passengers going to the town of Priest River. However, the branch is a dead end line. I thought of putting a small turntable at the terminus to flip the engine, and then it occurred to me that even if I turned the engine, the combine would have to be backed down the branch, and I think it would look silly to have the coach end forward. So...
Have any of you ever heard of turntables being used to turn not locos but cars? My thought was, have two tracks coming into the turntable. The engine drops the combine at the wee station, then goes to the turntable, turns, and comes out on a sort of escape track -- a second track out of the turntable -- and after spotting and picking up cars at the industries around Priest River town, the engine comes back to the station with the empties, uses them to push the combine onto the turntable, the combine gets turned and brought back to the station headed in the home direction to pick up passengers again.
I guess a second question is, have any of you ever heard of combines running coach end forward, because if this is not a capital offense agains railway protocol I could skip the turntable completely -- branchwork will be done mostly by road switchers anyway.
Wild guesses and rash opinions welcome. I only need the slightest justification.
-Matt
On my branchline, I run a mixed train with a single combine for passenger service. Since it isn't coupled with other passenger trains, I run it coach end forward on the return trip. I don't know how prototypical that is, but this is where I invoke"my railroad, my rules". If it is part of a passenger consist, it would be problematic in that passengers moving from the combine to other cars would have to go through the baggage section.
NHTXThat car is a model of a Boston and Maine RR combine made by the Ambroid Company in the 1950s/early 1960s... What you have there sir is, a piece of model railroading history from 65-70 years ago.
Other things I found interesting in your replies:
doctorwayneI'll be using Evergreen passenger car siding, in styrene, to represent the wood, though, as it's "board" spacing is more prototypical.
John-NYBWOn my branchline, I run a mixed train with a single combine for passenger service. Since it isn't coupled with other passenger trains, I run it coach end forward on the return trip. I don't know how prototypical that is, but this is where I invoke"my railroad, my rules". If it is part of a passenger consist, it would be problematic in that passengers moving from the combine to other cars would have to go through the baggage section.
crossthedog And what if I want to run a steam loco up the branch? Then I'd need that turntable to still be operational. Hmmm. The pondering continues
And what if I want to run a steam loco up the branch? Then I'd need that turntable to still be operational. Hmmm. The pondering continues
"We may have to turn this darn engine, but if those passengers want the combine turned, they can just do it themselves!"
Ed
7j43k"We may have to turn this darn engine, but if those passengers want the combine turned, they can just do it themselves!" Ed
crossthedogI was looking at my model and thinking how much I like the feel of wooden models, the way their surfaces hold paint and light, but at the same time they sometimes don't look scaled correctly, a job that styrene often does better. It bothered me that I was having impulses of preference for plastic.
Thanks for your kind words. I always liked the look of the wooden cars, too, as I had a few of them on my first HO scale layout in the mid-'50s.The only remnant of them that's left is this Silver Streak caboose...
I don't think that the siding is wood, though, as the board detail is fairly tight...probably cardstock of some sort, impressed to create the "boards". Your newly acquired car prompted me to dig it out.The running boards, cupola, window frames, end decks and steps, along with the toolbox are all cast metal. I'm tempted to fix 'er up, although I'm also planning to scratcbuild 10 or 12 wooden cabooses,in a variety of styles, as I have four freelanced roads operating on my layout, along with connections to both Canadian National and the TH&B. The latter was jointly owned by Canadian Pacific and New York Central, along with the TH&B itself.
Here's one of my early scratchbuilt boxcars, built using styrene...
...probably should have used wider boards for the sides, and smaller strip material for the reinforcements on the doors. I built three similar single-door cars (with similar faults) and gave two of them to a couple of close friends.
This one is one of four scratchbuilds representing my version of what might have been an early covered hopper. It's meant to represent a dual-service car, with roof hatches and longitudinal outlet hoppers, but also still-operable doors and covers over the hoppers, when used for shipping bagged materials...
One of the pluses of freelancing a layout is the opportunity to choose modelling both true-to-prototype cars and fantasy could-have-been examples. I do have a lot more models of real cars than made-up ones, thanks to several well-illustrated books from Ted Culotta...photos galore, along with very useful written data.
One of my favourites is this MDC boxcar re-done as a pretty good stand-in for a Southern Su-class boxcar...
The Southern had almost 15,000 of them.
doctorwayne One of my favourites is this MDC boxcar re-done as a pretty good stand-in for a Southern Su-class boxcar... The Southern had almost 15,000 of them. Wayne
I have a 3 car set of Nickel Plate boxcars that look very similar to this. I'm wondering if they would still be in interchange service in 1956 when my layout is set.
John-NYBW I have a 3 car set of Nickel Plate boxcars that look very similar to this. I'm wondering if they would still be in interchange service in 1956 when my layout is set.
Wood underframes were banned in interchange in 1940. (There WERE truss rod cars with steel underframes.) (The sample car does not look to me to be one of those--just intuition though.)
Truss rods were banned in interchange in 1952.
If I fell in love with these (romantic mood music starts):
These three cars were used in the 1939 grain rush to a port in the PNW. A Nickel Plate employee put the word out that they were for sale at a bargain price (see end of service in 1940). Your railroad saw that as an opportunity to pick up some MOW cars, and a deal was arrived at.
They arrived on the property, and were in good and weathertight shape (had to be, to transport grain).
One car was converted into a bunk car--windows were cut in (between the upright framing posts), the sliding door was replace by a person-door, a stove was installed, and some new steps and grabs up to the door.
The other two became tool and supply cars--a small window was cut in at each end, to provide extra light (the employees thought that was a nice touch!). And also new steps and grabs at the existing door.
There was no need to repaint, so all the NKP marking stayed, except that the car number was replace by an MOW number.
Should the cars have had steel underframes, all the better. Of course the purchase year came later. But also the new owners were thrilled to get a steel underframe, as when/if the "box" failed, they could make MOW flats out of them.
And that's how it came to be that three cars bearing NKP lettering came to live on your railroad--they found their forever home.
Sniff.
The End
7j43k If I fell in love with these (romantic mood music starts):
Rich
Alton Junction
The Southern's Su-series boxcars all had steel underframes and truss rods, too. A lot of the cars were scrapped (some assigned to "company service") immediately after WWII.
There's a photo, in the same Culotta book, showing a former Su- (acquired from the Southern by the Lancaster & Chester) in 1949. At least one of those ten cars received AB brakes, but there's no mention of how long they lasted.
Here's a look at the modified MDC underbody with a steel (plastic, of course) centre sill, allong with the four truss rods and K-type brakes...
richhotrain 7j43k If I fell in love with these (romantic mood music starts): If I Fell (Remastered 2009) - YouTube Rich
If I Fell (Remastered 2009) - YouTube
NOPE!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GfAb0gNPy6s
7j43k richhotrain 7j43k If I fell in love with these (romantic mood music starts): If I Fell (Remastered 2009) - YouTube Rich NOPE!
doctorwayneThe Southern's Su-series boxcars all had steel underframes and truss rods...
No idea what y'all are on about now, but NHTX's little primer on Ambroid earlier got me interested, so I looked at what's out there on eBay, and I found a GN 50' reefer that's the very spit of my dad's old wooden model. So I got to wondering about my dad's old cars, which I inherited.
I was born in 1962, and I don't remember a time before my dad had these four cars. Mom says he didn't have them before they married, so he must have acquired them sometime in the early or mid 1960s.
I went down to the layout to look and sure enough, the GN reefer's trucks say Central Valley. I wonder if it's an Ambroid model. It has that same unusual profile and looks exactly like the one on eBay.
The MKT stock car has newer trucks and maybe Delrin axles and wheels; I believe Dad repaired this model because I believe I trashed it when I was a toddler, or maybe the cat did. Still has a lot of broken slats.
The Texaco tank car is wood and metal. Someone recently told me that if it had the short running board on just one side of the dome instead of both, it would be exactly like the prototype.
The caboose, I am alarmed to discover only now, has a metal body. I doubt it's brass, but it's not wood, even though it models a wood caboose. The chassis and undersill are wood, and the decks and steps are metal.
These cars my brother and I did not use. We had our own, and these were Dad's. Mostly they sat around in boxes, broken and awaiting someday repair. Besides, they had knucklers, and our kid stuff had the Tyco horns. I didn't think about Dad's rolling stock much until I grew up and realized they were the coolest things ever. I started putting Kadees on my cars as a teen, but shortly thereafter I got interested in pursuits outside the home (girls). Dad must have repaired his stock car sometime in his later years while I was out being a young adult.
All four are regular runners on my layout now. Someone here asked recently if and how childhood models influenced our later interests. Definitely. My dad's GN reefer represents everything I love about model railroading: the model material, the late steam era, the look of the car. Always been trying to get back to that one awesome car.
Matt,
Like you, I'm very fond of the GN express reefer. That's why it was the first wood kit I built. The kit is an Ambroid.
If the caboose is all metal, I am guessing it's a Roundhouse/Model Die Casting kit.
The other two I can't place.
There's a website called HoSeeker:
https://hoseeker.net
that has a lot of old catalogs. You can look through them.
Here's a page from the instructions for the GN car:
https://hoseeker.net/ambroid/ambroidgnexpressrefrigeratorcar1954pg6.jpg
7j43kThere's a website called HoSeeker: https://hoseeker.net that has a lot of old catalogs. You can look through them. Here's a page from the instructions for the GN car:
crossthedogJohn, from the responses I've received here it sounds like there's prototype precedent for everything, but I think that I too will run my combine coach-end for'ard on the way back down the branch. Probably right behind an RS-3 running backward (short hood forward). This obviates having to find space for a turntable at the end of the branch. Although... it would still be realistic to have an old turntable pit there from Old Steam Days, which in 1956 would not be so long departed. And what if I want to run a steam loco up the branch? Then I'd need that turntable to still be operational. Hmmm. The pondering continues
It would be incredibly rare to have a turntable at the end of a dead-end branchline to be used to turn a passenger car, it would only turn the steam engine. Remember, the coach or combine on the train had seats that could be rotated around 180 degrees, so the passengers would face forward no matter how the car was oriented. Whether the baggage end of the combine was forward or back wasn't important, or even considered.
You could have the turntable there after the line had been dieselized, but my impression is that railroads got rid of turntables as soon as they weren't needed. I suspect maintaining a turntable was more work than a couple of switches on a run-around track. Railroads tended to buy 1st gen diesels for specific purposes, like buying a couple of GP-7s or RS-3s to operate a specific branchline, or A-B-A sets of F7s to haul mainline freights. If in a crisis they had to run a steam engine after that, they'd just run it say forwards up the branch and run tender first back down. But it would only be like an emergency where the regular diesel(s) were unavailable.
Turntable at end of branch line:
https://www.loc.gov/resource/hhh.ar0132.sheet?st=gallery
https://voiceofthevalley.com/2020/11/17/taylor-turntable-1943/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago,_St._Paul,_Minneapolis,_and_Omaha_Turntable
Here's a pretty cool picture:
That bit of a passenger car is the prototype for the Ambroid coach kit.
crossthedog John, from the responses I've received here it sounds like there's prototype precedent for everything, but I think that I too will run my combine coach-end for'ard on the way back down the branch. Probably right behind an RS-3 running backward (short hood forward). This obviates having to find space for a turntable at the end of the branch. Although... it would still be realistic to have an old turntable pit there from Old Steam Days, which in 1956 would not be so long departed. And what if I want to run a steam loco up the branch? Then I'd need that turntable to still be operational. Hmmm. The pondering continues
John, from the responses I've received here it sounds like there's prototype precedent for everything, but I think that I too will run my combine coach-end for'ard on the way back down the branch. Probably right behind an RS-3 running backward (short hood forward). This obviates having to find space for a turntable at the end of the branch. Although... it would still be realistic to have an old turntable pit there from Old Steam Days, which in 1956 would not be so long departed. And what if I want to run a steam loco up the branch? Then I'd need that turntable to still be operational. Hmmm. The pondering continues
My layout is also set in 1956 and the branch has a Ten Wheeler as it's primary engine. There will be a turntable at each end. I toyed with the idea of installing a wye at the end of the branch with a flip down section for one leg of the wye but I think the turntable is a simpler solution. A doodlebug is also on the roster and that will get turned at both ends.