Re "A Christmas Story" and other stories of Shep, remember it's easier to keep history straight if you're going by a history book you read rather than from memory. Our memories tend to blend things together and mix them up, like "those Frankie and Annette 'beach movies' of the fifties" that were made 1963-66; or Meredith Wilson including a reference to "Captain Billy's Whiz-Bang" in the Music Man's song about the pool hall, even though the story is set in 1912 and the humor magazine didn't start until the 1920s.
OldEnginemanI watched "A Christmas Story" once. It never did much for me.
Noooooooooooooooo!
How can you say such a thing?
-Kevin
Living the dream.
I watched "A Christmas Story" once. It never did much for me.
But I really enjoyed both "The Phantom of the Open Hearth" and also "The Star-Crossed Love of Josephine Cosnowsky".
Both of the above can be watched on YouTube, I believe.
As I recall, there is a Baldwin visible at the beginning of "Phantom of the Open Hearth".
BTW with all this talk about Jean Shepherd, I forgot that there was an episode of his "Jean Shepherd's America" 1970s PBS show that was about Trains....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghDpLSRQSug
SeeYou190 Just to get totally geeked on this subject... and since this is a train forum. In the film Enemy At The Gates, they did a remarkable job with making sure that all the military equipment was as accurate as possible.
Just to get totally geeked on this subject... and since this is a train forum.
In the film Enemy At The Gates, they did a remarkable job with making sure that all the military equipment was as accurate as possible.
Rich
Alton Junction
wjstixWell, and one could spend a lifetime recording all of the anachronisms in movies and TV shows that are set in a specific year..
In the film Enemy At The Gates, they did a remarkable job with making sure that all the military equipment was as accurate as possible. Sure, there is some nit-picking out there about grip styles on pistols, tread patterns on tires, and even some impossible to understand musings about scope diameters. Overall, it is a remarkable film.
HOWEVER... In a huge glaring error, right at the beginning of the movie, when the A/A gun car is attached to the Soviet troop train, it is being pulled by a German steam locomotive.
This would not have happened. No captured German locomotives were used on Soviet trains that operated near the front line until very late in the war.
They ruined a near-perfect movie with a train error.
Well, and one could spend a lifetime recording all of the anachronisms in movies and TV shows that are set in a specific year...IIRC the movie "Hard Times" (set in 1933) starts with Charles Bronson arriving in a passenger train hauled by I think a GE 70-ton switcher. Gary Busey playing a 1978 Fender Stratocaster guitar when playing Buddy Holly, who died in 1959. Etc. Etc. Sometimes it's better to be a litte 'vague'.
SeeYou190The great thing about this discussion is that A Christmas Story never specifies the year it takes place. We can look for all kinds of clues, but in the end, it is just a discussion that we cannot ever fully resolve.
He also did make the point at least once that the filmmakers had done a great deal of careful research in making the film that he wouldn't have. Stories, like radio, can leave a great deal to the imagination that movies need to depict... and it is usually in those 'other depicted details' that we nitpickers find the little, ah, non-Eastery eggs. I deeply respect those filmmakers who try to get details right, and respect even more those who are able to make me believe I'm in that era and place... even with the occasional 'compromise'.
I don't think I'll ever get tired of watching the film, any more than I'll ever get tired of reading Shep's stories... or better, hearing him read them on the magic of radio.
wjstixThe Christmas Story discussion reminds me of choosing a time frame for a model railroad...for some of us, modelling say "the fifties"
The great thing about this discussion is that A Christmas Story never specifies the year it takes place. We can look for all kinds of clues, but in the end, it is just a discussion that we cannot ever fully resolve.
I wonder how many model railroaders just build something that looks good to them without specifying a year, and then just let the viewers/visitors draw their own conclusions.
It just occured to me that in all the times I have visited people's home layouts, I don't think I have ever asked someone what year they model.
The Christmas Story discussion reminds me of choosing a time frame for a model railroad...for some of us, modelling say "the fifties" and using equipment that existed in that decade - even if it means having a steam engine retired in 1953 sitting next to a diesel bought new in 1958 - is perfectly acceptable. Others would say if you're modelling "the fifties", it means you're really modelling the last day of 1959 - and doing it badly. To them, you have pick a specific year (or even month or day) and everything on your layout has to be correct for that year or month.
One is kinda like a history textbook, the other like a historical novel.
BATMANParts of the movie were filmed in Toronto including this scene at the Christmas tree lot.
I was aware of some of the St. Catharines locations, but not of those shot in Toronto (or as it's known locally Trawna).
Wayne
A few years ago, TBS or it's sister network TNT would have movies with commentary about items concerning the film.
It's somewhat fitting as to the timing of this discussion about "A Christmas Story." Jean Shepard's 100th birthday would've been July 26, a few days away.
Jeff
tstageYes, the ACS house was fixed up and is open to tours, as well as overnight stays. It's located in the Tremont area of Cleveland, overlooking The Flats. Tom
https://www.achristmasstoryhouse.com/
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
OvermodDid they mention what the air-rifle trope that forms much of both the story and the movie was supposed to be in that context?
They do not go into any detail about the original story, and I have not read the original source material.
They did add characters for the movie, and most of the vignettes were not in the original story, or heavily modified for the film. Some of the "memories" were taken from Shepherd's other stories about different times.
Supposedly Jean Shepherd stepped aside and let the movie makers make the movie. He does the narration as "Adult Ralphie", and has a cameo in Higbees.
I have not seen it, and have not found it anywhere, but there was a version of A Christmas Story that aired on TBS one year where they had a crawl across the bottom of the screen that pointed out details and differences from the original story.
My copy of the movie is an earlier DVD version. There has since been a two-disc special edition DVD and a Blu-Ray version.
I think I need an upgrade.
SeeYou190According to the audio commentary the movie was intended to be set just before the great depression
Not quite the anachronism of Ray Charles driving under a stack train, but a whole decade is nontrivial.
Thanks, Stix. With Robert's input I now understand where you are coming from.
Yes, the ACS house was fixed up and is open to tours, as well as overnight stays. It's located in the Tremont area of Cleveland, overlooking The Flats.
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
wjstixRalphie's age (about 10-12?) in the early 1930's
Ralphie is 9 and in second grade.
Supposedly, Jean Shepherd was in second grade in the 1928-1929 school year.
According to the audio commentary the movie was intended to be set just before the great depression, but there was difficulty in finding props and locations, and the generic late 30s to early 40s time seemed more suited to the theme of childhood innocence.
There are tons of details in the movie that did not exist until after WW2, but you need to really go onto full-tilt-geek-out to worry about such insignificant anachronisms.
Also, most of the gifts Randy received for Chistmas were more appropriate for the early 1930s.
Parts of the movie were filmed in Toronto including this scene at the Christmas tree lot. Hard to tell from this photo what is going on with this streetcar.
https://torontoist.com/2012/08/reel_toronto_a_christmas_story/
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0085334/locations
wjstixShepherd was born in 1921 so would have been Ralphie's age (about 10-12?) in the early 1930's
Yeah. I'm too young to have read his short stories in their original form, but I do have a copy of In God We Trust, All Others Pay Cash. The first time I read it, it really stood out how a lot of his stories were unambiguously set during the worst of the Depression.
tstage And that's the era that I was guessing, Kevin, just from the cars, cast dress, and radio program. So, if CRC was around till '42 then the trolley wouldn't be an anachronym...???
And that's the era that I was guessing, Kevin, just from the cars, cast dress, and radio program. So, if CRC was around till '42 then the trolley wouldn't be an anachronym...???
I don't think anybody said it was. Stix's comment was that streetcars hadn't run on that street in 30 years when the movie was filmed, not in 30 years before it supposedly took place. That's why they had to use a dummy over an automobile body - when they were filming there were no tracks for the streecar to run on.
Re "A Christmas Story", the street scenes were filmed in Cleveland, but the movie was set in "Holman Indiana" which was Jean Shepherd's fictionalized version of his hometown of Hammond, IN, just across the border from Chicago (remember Dad reading the newspaper story about the upcoming Bears game?). IIRC Shepherd grew up on Holman Ave. in Hammond.
I agree the movie doesn't appear to be set in one particular year. Shepherd was born in 1921 so would have been Ralphie's age (about 10-12?) in the early 1930's, but as noted there are details that would indicate it was a later time. BTW the "Little Orphan Annie" radio show was on the air starting in 1930 on WGN in Chicago, then went national on NBC's Blue Network 1931-42.
Keep in mind there were hundreds of stories Shepherd did about Ralphie and his exploits, including dating and serving in World War II. Some were stories he told on his radio show, some were published short stories (many published in Playboy). About a half-dozen were made into TV programs / movies for PBS in the 1970's-80's. Those PBS presentations had Ralph being a teenager in the 1950's.
I recall the department store trains included a c.1935 Lionel semi-scale Hiawatha set. (It was built to 'true' O scale of 1:43, but had detailing more like a tinplate train.)
Back to Cleveland, I understand someone bought the house used for the exterior shots and rebuilt the interior so the layout and decoration of the rooms were a duplicate of the movie sets (including the iconic lamp) so people could come and tour it.
NittanyLionBetween the Wizard of Oz and the decoder ring, it has to be either 1939 or 1940.
The Red Ryder strip that started the whole franchise didn't appear until November 1938... and even with coordinated marketing wouldn't have been 'famous' as a must-have Christmas thing that year, the year the Depression tried clamping down again. (I have no idea how Ralphie accessed an alternate time continuum in which he had a published Red Ryder 'anything' from 1937.) The Republic serial didn't start until late June 1940; the first comic-book wasn't until September 1940; most tellingly, the Daisy Red Ryder gun wasn't marketed as such until spring 1940.
Meanwhile Christmas season 1941 would... well, let's say December 7th wouldn't have gone unremarked, to amplify the point Kevin made.
So it's pretty clear circumstantially what Christmas we'd be looking at...
SeeYou190 The Little Orphan Annie decoder ring is from 1940, but similar rings date to 1935.
The Little Orphan Annie decoder ring is from 1940, but similar rings date to 1935.
But, the Wizard of Oz characters at Higbee's are clearly the 1939 movie versions of the characters. Between the Wizard of Oz and the decoder ring, it has to be either 1939 or 1940.
tstageCleveland Railway Company was in operation from 1910-1942...
Even after '42 some of the cars continued to be run on the Shaker Rapid:
Shaker_12 Westbound by Edmund, on Flickr
I would have to research exact dates but I believe some were pressed into service in peak times into the 1950s to supplement the PCCs. I have a 1959 photo of a train of four 1914 Kuhlman cars still running on the Shaker/Van Aken line.
Of course a few were still run for special excursion use at least into the late 1970s.
Regards, Ed
No bother. It's still an enjoyable classic movie. And the house they used for the exterior shots is only a 20 min drive from me.
Tom,
No where in A Christmas Story does it specify a year.
If you watch the movie with the audio commentary on, the director says he was going for a look of the late 30s to early 40s.
The author, Jean Shepherd, was actually in the second grade in the late 1920s.
If you want to geek out... no new cars are shown in the film, all the cars have wear on them. The best looking vehicle we see is a taxi cab from the late 1930s. The Red Ryder ad Ralphie hides under his bed is from 1937. The Little Orphan Annie decoder ring is from 1940, but similar rings date to 1935. The Parker family car is a 1938 Oldsmobile that is in worn shape, suggesting that WW2 shortages are in effect.
No one in the film mentions the going-ons in Europe in the late 1930s or early 1940s.
I would love a Lionel train guy to date the models on display in the window at Higbee's Department Store.
Stix,
What year was A Christmas Story supposed to represent? Cleveland Railway Company was in operation from 1910-1942...
gmpullmanNo, on second thought, I'm confusing Greatest Show with an older B&W movie about a circus train wreck.