Hello All,
How "small" is your definition of small?
On my HO 4'x8' coal branch loop has a 3% grade up to the unloading platform.
This grade is also on an asymmetrical curve; the first half of the curve is a 22-inch radius and the second half of the curve is an 18-inch radius.
A loaded coal drag of eight 34-foot Tyco operating hoppers is pulled by a single GP-30 with a pusher set of a GP-30 A-B consist.
Occasionally an "Olde Tyme" excursion train pulling five 42-foot passenger cars and a bobber caboose navigates this curved incline.
A USRA 0-6-0 with a Vanderbilt tender (converted to burn oil) is on the head end with a 0-6-0 Side Tank porter (also converted to oil) acts as a helper.
The USRA 0-6-0 is a DCC Bachmann unit fitted with a Vanderbilt tender. The 0-6-0 Side Tank Porter is also a DCC Bachmann.
Other responders to this post have recommended a 2-X-0 wheel arrangement. On uneven track, the pilot wheels might cause a problem with tracking.
Shays, Heisslers, or Climax's would be preferred given the railroads (or your) budget.
Hope this helps.
"Uhh...I didn’t know it was 'impossible' I just made it work...sorry"
Late4DinnerI have a space where I can go 2.5' x 16. Subject to approval.
My first HO layout was about 2 by 8, and then another few feet were added. I enjoyed it for over ten years. It was actually my longest-lasting layout.
I could not do continuous run, but I found out I did not need continuous run to enjoy it.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
That space is indeed tight in terms of width. You could model some kind of mining operation, with locos going back and forth, with some switching. You could create some kind of tunnel at one end to create the illusion of trains going towards a mainline that is not visible...
Another option is to go for another scale/track, like N or HOn30 (HO narrow gauge that runs on N track). These would allow for continuous operation as curves would require about 22 inches for a half circle, which fits in your space.
I have a few strips of HOn30 on my layout, but keep in mind that rolling stock for HOn30 is expensive and limited. And I don't think there were any narrow gauge (24 inch gauge) operations in US coal mining - but I could be wrong.
Anticipating future needs is a consideration. If you think you will eventually have access to more space, then some kind of switching layout in HO could satisfy your needs temporarily. Your "continuous" operation needs may also be met at a local club, if you live near one.
Simon
Once again, my grand plan has proven to be not so grand after all. Based on some comments here, I think I will regret trying to wedge in a continous run with hills. I think I need to go with a shelf layout, relatively flat. I have a space where I can go 2.5' x 16. Subject to approval.
As a beginner, I appreciate the guidance.
Another vote for the 2-8-0. They were the most common steam locomotive as a type.
Disclaimer: This post may contain humor, sarcasm, and/or flatulence.
Michael Mornard
Bringing the North Woods to South Dakota!
If 22" fits, then go for it. But if you have a small surface, smaller engines will look better on a smallish layout and will work fine with 18". Athearn's 2-8-0 will work on 18", as well as most steam with 6 drivers. I can't speak for Bachmann's model, I don't have one but I'd be shocked if it didn't. Big engines with few cars just look odd on a small pike IMHO.
I'll add one more factor to consider. If your railroad is hauling anthracite (hard coal), a camelback loco would be correct. Anthracite is only mined in NE PA, basically in Lackawanna, Luzerne, Carbon, Schuylkill and North Umberland Counties.
If hauling bituminous (soft coal) which is far more common, then rear cab steam locos would fill the bill.
Jim
Late4Dinner I think I need to find how to get 22" minimum radius turns.
There is a HUGE difference between 18 an 22 inch radius curves when it comes to what will run on your track.
Late4Dinner Back to the drawing board - literally. I think I need to find how to get 22" minimum radius turns. I'm leaning toward the Bachman Consolidation. To start. I appreciate all the input.
Back to the drawing board - literally. I think I need to find how to get 22" minimum radius turns. I'm leaning toward the Bachman Consolidation. To start.
I appreciate all the input.
Larger curves are better in any case if you can swing it.
Sheldon
doctorwayneThe tightest curves on my layout are a 3O" radius, which pretty-well anything should be able to navigate. Most are at 32" and 34", although there are a couple in the low 40"s.
My most recent HO layout was built in a small bedroom, and 18" radius curves were utilized on hidden trackage.
I learned a lot about the realities of tight radius curves.
For an idea of smaller 2-10-0 locos, look at Strasburg #90 not much bigger than a 2-8-0 0r 2-8-2. Of course to make it interesting, if it is a lot of tight curves, a Shay, climax, or hiestler would have been used.
Actually, the entire Strasburg roster is a good approximation of what a 1930's coal hauler might look like
SHane
A pessimist sees a dark tunnel
An optimist sees the light at the end of the tunnel
A realist sees a frieght train
An engineer sees three idiots standing on the tracks stairing blankly in space
Late4Dinner Wayne, Beautiful layout. Thank you for sharing the pictures. Tom
Wayne,
Beautiful layout. Thank you for sharing the pictures.
Tom
SeeYou190My Bachmann/Spectrum (a very early edition) 2-8-0 handled 18" curves easily. I believe I bought it in the late 1990s.
doctorwayneBachmann's Consolidation is a decent puller, but I'm not sure if it can handle an 18" radius.
My Bachmann/Spectrum (a very early edition) 2-8-0 handled 18" curves easily. I believe I bought it in the late 1990s.
My brass MARYLAND AND PENNSYLVANIA (United/PFM model) 2-8-0 will also go through an 18" radius curve with no problem.
Bachmann's Consolidation is a decent puller, but I'm not sure if it can handle an 18" radius.Another option could be Bachmann's 10-Wheeler or a Mogul.
I have an IHC Mogul that wasn't an especially good puller until I added some extra weight, and it's now able to handle at least 17 cars on a not-too-steep grade.
For some unknown reason, I decided to put a bunch of tank cars on one of the staging tracks of my layout, but as I added the last few, I realised that they would be blocking another track. Since I had just spilled some coal out of one of my Mogul's tenders (and cleaned it up), I decided to use that locomotive to transfer the 16 tank cars, and a cabose, to a longer track in the same yard.
Here are some pictures...(click on them to get a larger view - my apologies for the somewhat blurry photos, as the tripod isn't tall enough to shoot aerial views of this part of the layout)
The Mogul has coupled onto the drag (16 tank cars and a caboose)...
....and backs out onto the northbound east-mainline, rolling past the recently completed butterfly-type sheds over the station's platforms...
...then crosses-over to the west-main....
...and continues around the curve and downgrade on the now single track...
...with the caboose now clear of the crossover, it's time to push...
...I did manage to catch the 37 as it crossed the Liberty St. bridge...
...and also got a couple of shots of the cars as they rolled into a longer track...
I had posted some of these photos in the General Discussion thread late last month, but have added a few, as the original post didn't show all of the views as the train was moved.
Apparently, the IHC/Mehano locomotive is still available, although I'm guessing that it's a little more than the $15.00 that I payed for mine.
Wayne
The Western Maryland had an enormous fleet of 2-8-0's for both mainline and mine branch work in the coal fields.
It would be my choice, in fact it is one of my choices. My roster includes 10 Bachmann spectrum 2-8-0's, three lettered WM, two lettered B&O and the other five ATLANTIC CENTRAL.
I am going to toss my support in for a 2-8-0, they just look right on "small" railroads in the 1930s, and they run on 18" curves just fine.
Thank you for the help. This can get me started. As stated above, it will be in HO scale. I am thinking small, so maybe six hoppers. I am not sure what % grade, but I'd like a twice around, because a given is elevation. I am trying to work out all my compromises. I think I'd better stick to 22" minimum radius.
I would go for a Mantua 2-8-2, which is a good puller, or a Bachmann 2-8-0 (might have to be double-headed).
How small an operator is this? That will determine both the type and size of power.
In my opinion, nothing without trucks leading and trailing (geared engines qualify by default!) has any business in this kind of service in the Appalachians. Very few mines would be at either water level, or grade level away from where road power could spot hoppers and the mine staff could just use car movers or winches. Even on the flat, I doubt there will be really good rail line and surface...
For fun, you could use a Besler or Sentinel engine, with a suitable backstory. Or use an early homebuilt version of a Trackmobile, or an 'internal-combustion-engine' conversion of an older chassis (as so many shoestring operations did in those years!)
On the other hand, if you need 'really cheap' fuel and reasonably good water nearby, I suspect that's easy to arrange for a steam locomotive in this service...
For the Appalacians you probably want a geared locomotive - a Shay, Climax or Heisler - because of the steep grades and sharp turns. If your layout or the area you will be modeling is moderately flat (i.e. slightly hilly) and you are only going to be pulling a few hoppers full of coal, a USRA 0-6-0 or 0-8-0 should be adequate for the job.
In regards to what's available, the Proto 2000 USRA 0-6-0s & 0-8-0s are very nice and would work well for you. In regards to the Climax or Heisler, I've read mixed reviews on the Bachmanns. You could find some good deals in brass, if you keep your eyes peeled and know what to look for. (I picked up a roadname specific (NYC) 0-6-0 switcher that runs REALLY well and smoothly.) You also didn't specifiy a scale or whether you would be operating your layout in DC or DCC.
[Edit: Doh! You mentioned HO in your original post and I completely missed it]
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
Probably a 2-8-0 would be most common. A Bachmann Spectrum engine would be a good generic engine.
A USRA 2-8-2 would work also.
For the odder types, a 2-10-0 decopod or a 2-6-0 would work also.
Most would would work on 18" curves. How bad it would look depends on your definition of bad. The bigger the engine the worse it would look, and pretty much any engine would look bad on that tight of radius.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
Whenever I think of a small, versatile, good looking steam loco, I think of a 2-8-0 Consolidation.
Not sure if models can handle 18 inch radius.
- Douglas
How many cars do you intend to pull, and are there hills to climb?
My BLI Hdson is too big and inappropriate for a coal hauling route.
My Proto 0-6-0 might work, but I suspect it's not from exactly the right era.
My Bachmann Mikado is nice, but perhaps a bit weak if you need to pull a lot.
My Bachmann 0-6-0 tank engine is a switcher, not a road engine.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
I'll keep it to the point. 1) What type of steam locomotive would be appropriate for a small 1930s Appalachian coal hauling railroad? 2) How bad would it look on 18" radius turns (HO)? More interested in watching it go than operations.