Trains.com

Subscriber & Member Login

Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!

Are multiple "Mued" Locos controlled as one or individually?

5627 views
44 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    September 2003
  • 21,669 posts
Posted by Overmod on Tuesday, March 2, 2021 9:21 AM

An elementary video about DPU by a locomotive engineer:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MuVRAg3HS-4&feature=youtu.be

And a tutorial from the train-simulator community about setting up DPU and then starting a heavy train on a grade -- note the helpful things in the comments...

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bjj-A36bYeA

  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Central Iowa
  • 6,901 posts
Posted by jeffhergert on Tuesday, March 2, 2021 8:38 AM

gregc
are distributed (?) consists controlled from by the engineer using radio?   if so, do the engines automatically shut-down if the radio link is lost?

i can understand that any engine is turned off (no longer providing traction).    but if there is a single control stand, are all consist/engines in the same "notch"?     and does this result in equal traction by each engine or do they simply provide whatever traction (i.e. power) that notch results in for that engine considering engine size (HP), age and any other performance deviations

 

DP first.  A DP consist in power mode will maintain the throttle position of the last command it received for 90 minutes during extended communication (comm) loss.  After that it will cut out it's brake valve and go to idle.  It will remain that way until comm is restored. 

If an engineer wishes to cut the power to the DP earlier, making a automatic brake application will signal the DP(s) to isle down.

A DP consist in dynamic braking will remain in dynamic brakes indefinitely until comm is restored.  This is because there may be times when, like on a long down grade section, you might not want to lose dynamics.  

If you need to get out of dynos, ther is away once stopped.  An emergency application when stopped will signal the DP(s) to go to idle and cut out the automatic brake.

 About all being in the same notch on a "hard wired" consist.  There are some energy managment systems that the onboard computer may run different engines within the consist in different throttle notches.  The engineer places the throttle in a certain notch.  The computer may decide that trailing engines will be run in the "optimal" notch.  It might be the same as the lead engine, it might not.  Unless the leader and trailing units are equipped with a conist monitor. the engineer won't know for sure what notch the trailing engines are actually in.

Jeff

  • Member since
    September 2003
  • From: Omaha, NE
  • 10,621 posts
Posted by dehusman on Tuesday, March 2, 2021 8:14 AM

gregc
 presumably a "consist" is 2 or more engines that are coupled together and distributed power means there can be multiple consists in a train separated by rolling stock.

Correct, sorta.  A consist could be one engine.  Distributed power is separate groups of engines (I think there can be up to 6 or 7) controlled by one engineer.

presumably all engines in a consist have a physical electrical connection between them.    are distributed (?) consists controlled from by the engineer using radio?   

Yes and yes.

if so, do the engines automatically shut-down if the radio link is lost?

There is only a penalty if contact is lost for a certain length of time.  Momentary loss of contact happens all the time.  Cuts, overpasses, buildings in cities, power lines, and other things can cause loss of a signal.

i can understand that any engine is turned off (no longer providing traction).    but if there is a single control stand, are all consist/engines in the same "notch"?

Normally, unless the engineer changes something, yes.

    and does this result in equal traction by each engine

No.

or do they simply provide whatever traction (i.e. power) that notch results in for that engine considering engine size (HP), age and any other performance deviations

Yes, just like every engine in every consist controlled by any method. 

Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com

  • Member since
    July 2009
  • From: lavale, md
  • 4,678 posts
Posted by gregc on Tuesday, March 2, 2021 6:42 AM

i'm curious

dehusman
DP engines are all controlled by one engineer and he only has one control stand, but he can control individual DP sets in the train.

Engines all in one consist are all handled together, but he can manually set some engine up to be off line (running but not pulling).

presumably a "consist" is 2 or more engines that are coupled together and distributed power means there can be multiple consists in a train separated by rolling stock.

presumably all engines in a consist have a physical electrical connection between them.    are distributed (?) consists controlled from by the engineer using radio?   if so, do the engines automatically shut-down if the radio link is lost?

i can understand that any engine is turned off (no longer providing traction).    but if there is a single control stand, are all consist/engines in the same "notch"?     and does this result in equal traction by each engine or do they simply provide whatever traction (i.e. power) that notch results in for that engine considering engine size (HP), age and any other performance deviations

 

dehusman
Short answer, "No".  Model engines are directly geared to the motor.  Real engines are diesel electric.

i think the OP was asking if prototypical engines ever "slip" like some consisted models do because they are not properly speed matched?

is this an example?   what caused this?

 

greg - Philadelphia & Reading / Reading

  • Member since
    August 2003
  • From: Collinwood, Ohio, USA
  • 16,367 posts
Posted by gmpullman on Monday, March 1, 2021 9:12 PM

mbinsewi
—with a loco and engineer on each end.

The Bessemer & Lake Erie ran them like that for a while, too. Albion, Pa. to Conneaut, Ohio ore docks.

Cut the power off each end and move over one or two yard tracks and tie on to another hundred-car cut. Usually loads south, empties north but they did haul coal north, too, but I don't know how often that happened.

A crew could make two round-trips a day like this.

 bessemer 089 by Todd Dillon, on Flickr

I rode along one night and noted that the lead engineer hardly touched the throttle at all. Up to run-8 once the train got rolling and the throttle stayed there until we got close to the curves and down-grade near the docks.

I imagine it was the same at the rear.

Regards, Ed

  • Member since
    May 2010
  • From: SE. WI.
  • 8,253 posts
Posted by mbinsewi on Monday, March 1, 2021 8:50 PM

May be a bit off topic, but the CN runs a short haul manifest, train A415, from Stevens Point, WI., to Green Bay. WI., and back, with a loco and engineer on each end.

No other crew, just the 2 engineers.

Mike.

  • Member since
    September 2003
  • From: Omaha, NE
  • 10,621 posts
Posted by dehusman on Monday, March 1, 2021 6:57 PM

Short answer, "No".  Model engines are directly geared to the motor.  Real engines are diesel electric.

Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com

  • Member since
    September 2003
  • From: Southeast Texas
  • 5,449 posts
Posted by mobilman44 on Monday, March 1, 2021 5:16 PM

As with our models, I'm wondering if the engineer has problems matching individual loco speeds when in a consist..........

ENJOY  !

 

Mobilman44

 

Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central 

  • Member since
    September 2003
  • From: Omaha, NE
  • 10,621 posts
Posted by dehusman on Monday, March 1, 2021 4:24 PM

Not quite sure what you are asking about.  Are you asking about Distributed power sets where there are multiple sets of iengine in the train and  one engineer is controlling all of them or are you asking about multiple engines in one consist, all coupled together in one group?

DP engines are all controlled by one engineer and he only has one control stand, but he can control individual DP sets in the train.

Engines all in one consist are all handled together, but he can manually set some engine up to be off line (running but not pulling).

Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com

  • Member since
    September 2003
  • From: Southeast Texas
  • 5,449 posts
Are multiple "Mued" Locos controlled as one or individually?
Posted by mobilman44 on Monday, March 1, 2021 2:59 PM

Reading the latest issue of Classic Trains and it got me wondering.  If a diesel train has a number of helper locos hooked together, does the lead engineer have a single control for all the helpers, or does he have a separate control for each?

I'm pretty sure of the answer, but not certain...........

ENJOY  !

 

Mobilman44

 

Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central 

Subscriber & Member Login

Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!

Users Online

There are no community member online

Search the Community

ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT
Model Railroader Newsletter See all
Sign up for our FREE e-newsletter and get model railroad news in your inbox!