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Hopper or Gondola, is there a difference?/My First Kitbash.

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Posted by BigDaddy on Wednesday, June 27, 2018 5:17 PM

Model railroader and Supreme Court Justice, Potter Stewart, said about the hopper gondola controversy, 'I know it when I see it'. ......no ...wait....maybe that was something about movies?

Henry

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Posted by 7j43k on Wednesday, June 27, 2018 5:12 PM

Neither the KCS nor the DRGW cars are fully self-clearing.

An advantage of the KCS car is that it dumps in the same outline as a regular hopper.  So it should work well where there's a receiver between the rails.  The DRGW doesn't do that well, at all.

An advantage of the DRGW is that, when the doors are closed, the floor is fully flat.  The KCS car looks like the majority of the "floor" isn't there.  Not too supportive for a load.  And, if the receiving industry is set up for outside-the-rails dumping, it (DRGW) unloads nicely.

 

Ed

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Posted by riogrande5761 on Wednesday, June 27, 2018 4:50 PM

Or surpassed on the D&RGW by the drop bottom gondola in their case.

Rio Grande.  The Action Road  - Focus 1977-1983

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Posted by dehusman on Wednesday, June 27, 2018 3:16 PM

Its called a hopper bottom gondola.  In the era I model (1900-1905) it was the most common kind of coal car.  By 1920 it was surpassed by the hopper car.

Its a gondola because it has a flat floor where the hoppers aren't .  A hopper is "self clearing ", all the interior surfaces are sloped.  A drop bottom gon is a gon  because the area in the center over the underframe and any portions of the bottom that don't drop are a flat floor. 

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Posted by NWP SWP on Wednesday, June 27, 2018 2:31 PM

I'd call that a Hopper-Gondola, wouldn't you?

Steve

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Posted by riogrande5761 on Wednesday, June 27, 2018 6:04 AM

jrbernier

  Hopper cars have bottom discharge gates.  Gondolas do not have discharge gates.  Most are rotary dumped... 

Au contraire.  The D&RGW had thousands of drop bottom gondolas.  I just purchased some RTR versions in HO from Intermountain - they are defnitely gondolas and have discharge gates on the bottom.

When you see these drop bottom gon's in trains, they sit significantly higher than standard gondolas to allow for room for the discharge gates to open below the cars.  Here is a photo of an SP beet drop bottom gon.

 I'm going to have to go with the tapered bottom characteriestic differentiating the hopper from the gondola.

Of course the D&RGW hauled lots of coal and other materials in both gondolas and hoppers.  Prior to the 1950's, most of the D&RGW cars used for coal were drop bottom gondolas.  When unit trains began to be popular in the 1960's, there was a large production of hi-side gondolas used to haul coal and they were rotary dumped.

Rio Grande.  The Action Road  - Focus 1977-1983

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Posted by 7j43k on Tuesday, June 26, 2018 10:59 PM

If a car has hoppers, it's a hopper car.

 

Ed

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Posted by NWP SWP on Tuesday, June 26, 2018 10:11 PM

So it's basically a difference in the bottom of the container.

Steve

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Posted by richg1998 on Tuesday, June 26, 2018 5:02 PM

 

Pretty simple. Just Google the names. You will find plenty of images, and descriptions.

 

Rich

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Posted by dknelson on Tuesday, June 26, 2018 5:01 PM

The essence of the hopper car is the hopper itself  - a container with a taper to the bottom.  The taper is what helps the loading from the bottom, more so than would just a hole in the bottom for example.

Some gondolas have bottoms that open but they are doors that simply dump the load, and no taper.  I have to assume that the mere fact that doors on a gondola bottom swing open does not necessarily mean that the load falls out unaided.  More to the point it is not a directed or aimed unloading to a point or points as a hopper would offer.  that may be a key definitional difference.

Dave Nelson

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Posted by 7j43k on Tuesday, June 26, 2018 4:53 PM

Because drop bottom gons don't have "hoppers":

 

"a container for a bulk material such as grain, rock, or trash, typically one that tapers downward and is able to discharge its contents at the bottom."

 

Gons have flat floors.  Or they DID, back when they had the bottom doors.  Hence they had no hoppers.

As is obvious, you can use drop bottom gons to carry bulk loads, or linear items like pipe and rail.  Which true hopper cars don't do well at all.

 

Ed

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Posted by NittanyLion on Tuesday, June 26, 2018 3:47 PM

There's a distinction between a self-clearing car and a non-self-clearing car (although I've never been clear on how drop bottom gons do that make them not hoppers). 

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Posted by jrbernier on Tuesday, June 26, 2018 3:14 PM

  Hopper cars have bottom discharge gates.  Gondolas do not have discharge gates.  Most are rotary dumped...

Modeling BNSF  and Milwaukee Road in SW Wisconsin

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Posted by BigDaddy on Tuesday, June 26, 2018 3:02 PM

Trinity calls their rotary coal cars gondolas and the bottom discharge cars hoppers.

https://www.trinityrail.com/productcategories.aspx?sid=26

 

Henry

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Hopper or Gondola, is there a difference?/My First Kitbash.
Posted by NWP SWP on Tuesday, June 26, 2018 2:57 PM

I've been reading on the types of newer cars used in the transport of coal over the railroad. I seems the term "Hopper" has been replaced with "Gondola" is this an actual change in car construction or merely a change in terminology?

Steve

If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!

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