Eight railroads? One thing to consider, is where did the money and substantial investment come from to form this new entity?
Similar to current day NWP operations, I'd consider a "Rail Authority" approach, where the railroads had ceased operations and the new company took over the management and operation of abandoned lines. In the final days of the NWP and SWP gasping for breath, the new authority purchases both corporate entities, and operates the NWP and SWP as their own roads, but the rail authority is the corporate figure head for both.
Both the NWP and SWP retain their own identity, but the "Pacific Railroad Authority" could also have it's own equipment.
Sometimes re-molding history, without completely abandoning the frame work that actually happened can be a good start to having a plausible story.
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So I could have it where the NWP-SWP bought majority shares of the 8 roads and thereby had control of them, the NWP-SWP left the roads with their own identities but also had a new unified system wide service the NWP and the SWP. Could that be plausible?
Steve
If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!
NWP SWPSo could I do something similar to that with my railroad?
There are dozens of ways corporations can choose to structure their ownership.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mergers_and_acquisitions
Entire books have been written (I suggest The Invisible Giants by Herbert H. Harwood, Jr.; The Men Who Loved Trains by Rush Loving, Jr. or The Wreck Of The Penn Central by Joseph R. Daughton) about the various ways that capitalists have re-shuffeled the deck when it comes to finance and Empire Building.
Often times a holding company, which is what Chessie System actually was before the actual "Family-Lines" and CSX corporation came into being.
The formulation of Conrail out of the remains of Penn Central and Erie-Lackawanna is another subject that can be devoted to entire books.
Sometimes a company will buy enough stock to have a "Controlling Interest" in a company. It may take 51% or a majority of the shares. Stock options, LBOs, consolodations or creations of entirely new corporations are just some of the methods.
The Staggers Act of 1980 changed the whole M&A picture for railroads of today.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Staggers_Rail_Act
You can choose any way you wish to finance your fictional railroad.
Cheers! Ed
NWP SWP How did Chessie pull that off? They half merged as I understand it?
How did Chessie pull that off? They half merged as I understand it?
C&O controlled the B&O and the B&O controlled the WM.. There was no Chessie System until 1971 and the Chessie System was the parent company.
The only Chessie until 1971 was the cat a mascot of the C&O.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
So could I do something similar to that with my railroad?
NWP SWPHow did Chessie pull that off? They half merged as I understand it?
It was done through a stock swap by a vote of the board-of-directors in 1963. Not a half-merger. The corporate names of the Baltimore And Ohio and Chesapeake And Ohio Railway Company remained unchanged.
Many corporations have a "Service Mark" to identify them in the public realm. The corporate identity remains the same.
The SOO Line and Cotton Belt pulled off a similar move many years before.
wjstixWhen did the "Chessie System" start, with the engines all having the same decoration but sub-lettering for the different railroad (B&O, WM etc.)? Must have been around 1970?
The C&O annual meeting in Cleveland, Ohio August 31, 1972.
Chessie_news by Edmund, on Flickr
1977_8-72 by Edmund, on Flickr
Chessie_news_6 by Edmund, on Flickr
Regards, Ed
wjstix As far as mergers being difficult in the first half of the 20th century, I'd say that it apparently was easier for one railroad to buy another - or more likely, buy a controlling interest of it's stock - than for two railroads to merge into a new railroad. I think that's where you got the "systems" like the New York Central System, where there was a New York Central railroad which controlled through ownership or lease a number of other railroads like Michigan Central.
As far as mergers being difficult in the first half of the 20th century, I'd say that it apparently was easier for one railroad to buy another - or more likely, buy a controlling interest of it's stock - than for two railroads to merge into a new railroad. I think that's where you got the "systems" like the New York Central System, where there was a New York Central railroad which controlled through ownership or lease a number of other railroads like Michigan Central.
You also ended up with things like the B&O being under PRR control, which kept the B&O from becoming a stronger player in the NYC market, or N&W being controlled by the PRR...whose physical plant is now owned by the N&W successor.
1971 was the first year.
When did the "Chessie System" start, with the engines all having the same decoration but sub-lettering for the different railroad (B&O, WM etc.)? Must have been around 1970?
NWP SWP I keep hearing about the C&O/B&O "merger" how did that one work?
I keep hearing about the C&O/B&O "merger" how did that one work?
In 1987 the C&O/B&O merged.Then few months later C&O was merged into CSX Transportation.From 1960 to 1987 C&O controlled the B&O by owning 51% of B&O stock.
Shock Control When a merger would go into effect and locomotives were repainted, how long after might one typically enounter freight cars still carrying the names of the predecessor railroads? Years?
When a merger would go into effect and locomotives were repainted, how long after might one typically enounter freight cars still carrying the names of the predecessor railroads? Years?
There were no mergers, but take the PRR for instance, they had controlling interest in a lot of railroads, the N&W, Wabash, DT&I, LV and many other smaller roads. There is a chart in the book Wreck of the Penn Central that lists all of them. As part of the merger with the NYC they had to divest themselves of many of these railroads, which is why the N&W and NKP merger came about (along with the leasing of the Wabash), and that forced the AnnArbor out of the Wabash into the hands of the DT&I.
A pre 1960 Merger was the M&StL into the C&NW which was a very convulted situation with the old president of the M&StL becoming the president of the C&NW and he forced the merger, much of the M&StL was abandoned as it paralleled the C&NW.
Rick Jesionowski
Rule 1: This is my railroad.
Rule 2: I make the rules.
Rule 3: Illuminating discussion of prototype history, equipment and operating practices is always welcome, but in the event of visitor-perceived anacronisms, detail descrepancies or operating errors, consult RULE 1!
I like this topic, very educational. Some time ago, I read the history of the Norfolk and Western, prior to becoming Norfolk Southern. The N & W took over many railroads in their history, but I don't think they were mergers.
So basically it was impractical to merge in the early 20th century?
A mega merger wouldn't really work in the depression era, right? Even if unions and shippers were satisfied?
Shock Control When a merger would go into effect and locomotives were repainted, how long after might one typically encounter freight cars still carrying the names of the predecessor railroads? Years?
When a merger would go into effect and locomotives were repainted, how long after might one typically encounter freight cars still carrying the names of the predecessor railroads? Years?
There was SCL,C&O,B&O,WM,Family Lines,Clinchfield,Chessie,Seaboard System locomotives well into the 90s with a patched CSX in the cab.
You can still see Family Lines,Chessie and Seaboard System covered hoppers with patched CSX markings.
ICG reverted to being just Illinois Central at the beginning of 1989. NO freight car repaints after that time were painted orange. Yet even now I frequently see orange ICG bulkhead flat cars passing through Enola Yard carrying new slabs of granite. So that is 28 plus years after the end of ICG that they are still out there in revenue service. I have seen Santa Fe red warbonnet engines occasionally still NOT patch lettered BNSF in recent years, also. However they are rare now.
One thing I remember Norm Lorentzen (one-time BN President / CEO) saying was that the best thing that happened with the BN merger is that it was delayed two years, from 1968 to 1970. He said those two years gave them time to work out a lot of potential problems, and because of that, the merger ended up being much smoother. BTW in 1967 it seemed so likely the merger would be squashed again that Great Northern went ahead with introducing the "Big Sky Blue" paint scheme, repainting green and orange GN diesels into sky blue, white and gray...a paint scheme many engines only wore a few years before being repainted for BN.
Not sure how many times the GN-NP-CBQ-SPS merger was proposed and rejected. I know the first was during the T. Roosevelt administration, early 1900's, then again around 1927, 1949, and I think about 1960.
Of course the Burlington and SP&S were already co-owned by NP and GN, so that made that merger smoother, as did the fact that NP and GN had been connected going back to James J. Hill's time, with interlocking boards and such.
wjstix The merger that created Burlington Northern was first attempted c.1905 but was nixed by the ICC. It was attempted several times thereafter, and was refused each time until finally being approved and taking place in 1970.
The merger that created Burlington Northern was first attempted c.1905 but was nixed by the ICC. It was attempted several times thereafter, and was refused each time until finally being approved and taking place in 1970.
Originally it was to take place in 1968, but stayed at the last minute. It was so close to implementation that employee time tables had been distributed. I saw one in an antique store once and didn't buy it although I recognized it's significance. I have a privately published book that a retired CB&Q/BN employee did showing his train order collection. It has the train order announcing the new BN time table taking effect and the train order annulling that order and stating the current CB&Q time table remaining in effect.
Jeff
There were several proposals in the 1930's to "rationalize' the railroads in the NE, but they never came to pass.
The Reading controlled the Lehigh Valley in the late 1800's, it lost it, then the PRR gained control, eventually the B&O gained control of the Reading.
The "robber baron" finaciers of the 1800's controlled vast interlocking groups of railroads, but anti-trust filings ended up splitting them apart. Harriman controlled the UP, SP and IC, but had to divest the UP and IC ater an anti-trust suit against him.
Gould controlled dozens of railroads, the MP, IGN, Wabash, MKT, and DRGW.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
State laws also affect mergers. For instance Texas
https://tshaonline.org/handbook/online/articles/eqr01
"When the Texas Legislature passed the Law to Regulate Railroads in 1853, it required that the railroads operating in the state be headquartered in Texas. ... Some, such as the Southern Pacific, Missouri Pacific, and the Santa Fe, retained the corporate names of Texas railroads they had acquired."
The Southern Pacific bought the Texas and New Orleans in 1881 but because of Texas law the railroads were not merged until 1961.
I tried to sell my two cents worth, but no one would give me a plug nickel for it.
I don't have a leg to stand on.
WVWoodmanI have advanced the merger of C&O, B&O and WM to that time period and any of those could and do run on my Western West Virginian.
Sigh..Glad that's in your HO world seeing the C&O,B&O and WM was merged under the CSX banner in '87.First the WM into the B&O then the B&O into the C&O then the C&O into CSX.
dehusmanWhat the railroads did was to buy interest in the other railroads as to assert control without an out right merger. That's why there were "Lines", New York Central Lines, Missouri Pacific Lines. Those were collections of railroads that coordintaed operations but technically hadn't merged.
.
Well.. All these years as a Model Railroader, and I never knew what "Lines" meant, in fact, I never even thought about it.
Again, this brings up the questions... Just how much don't I know? Everytime I read this forum I find out something else I did not know.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
For my layout set in the middle 50's with both steam and desiels - I have advanced the merger of C&O, B&O and WM to that time period and any of those could and do run on my Western West Virginian. Along with an occasional visit by the West Virginia Northern, the Buffalo Creek & Gauley, and a stray Pittsburgh & West Virginia loco that continued down the Western Maryland.
On my layout, the Great Northern continued on into the 21st century but was the majority owner of my branch line- The Minnesota, Sioux Lake & Western, which was based in St. Cloud, MN. This bit of alternate fiction allows me to have GN engines appear on the tracks as well as several other railroads, as my Sioux Lake maintenance facility handles repair jobs on an overflow basis from other locations.
You are the author of your railroad's story- it goes in any direction you want it to- that's part of the fun!
Cedarwoodron