gregcis block 12 occupied if the turnouts are aligned for the siding and the siding is unoccupied?
In most ABS areas I have worked, the sidings are unbonded, that means there is NO detection in the siding. It doesn't matter whether there is anything in the siding or not, the signal system doesn't know because there is no detection. If the switch is lined for the siding the signal displays low/lunar or stop and proceed otherwise.
On many railroads, siding 4 would be a rules violation, because switches are supposed to be left lined normal.
Siding #8 is also an interesting situation. The train is in the siding and both the entering and leaving switches are lined for that train. That means its kinda in the middle of a move. Either its making a runaround move or its been authorized past 8 and the rear end crew hasn't lined behind and the head end crew has opened the leaving switch in preparation to depart.
Siding 12, the train has some sort of instructions to meet a train there and as a courtesy has opened the arriving and leaving switches or has just met a train and as a courtesy is going to get the switches.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
gregcso what if there is indeed a station. Would there be only a single track next to the station and it would be the siding track described above? What if a passenger train coming from the opposite direction needs to also stop at the station?
Remember not to confuse "depot" and "station".
The passenger train stops at the depot. The depot can be on single track main, it can be next to the siding or it can be next to the main with a siding.
Doesn't matter. The passenger train stops. The signal system works the same whether its a passenger train or a freight.
How it works depends on whether you are operating TT&TO, TWC or DTC. Whether or not there are signals is immaterial. It works the same in dark territory or ABS. The only time it works differently is in CTC or interlocking.
BRAKIEI don't know of any dispatcher that would allow a runaround move if either block was occupied.
Actually the only way a dispatcher can "authorize" a runaround is in Rule 251 or one of the modern systems like TWC or DTC. In TT&TO there really isn't a mechanism for a dispatcher to "authorize" a runaround in ABS or dark single track. The train crew would make the move by flagging.
appreciate some of your earlier posts regarding situations and rules violations. starting to understand.
dehusmanRemember not to confuse "depot" and "station". The passenger train stops at the depot.
if a passenger train stops at a depot, what is a station?
greg - Philadelphia & Reading / Reading
gregc if a passenger train stops at a depot, what is a station?
from "The Consolidated Code of Operating Rules, Edition of 1959":
"STATION.--A place designated in the timetable by name."
There is no definition in that book for "depot".
Keep in mind that the timetable referred to is the employee timetable, not the handout one for customers.
There WILL be a sign at the physical location. That is all that is required. A building may or may not be attached to that sign. My wording of that sentence implies the sign is more significant than the building. For operating people, that's true.
On a different note, recall that Dave keeps mentioning "lunar", and I don't. There were (and are, I guess) different rulebooks for different railroads. As you can tell by the title of the one I quoted, there was consolidation of these rules. And changes over time, as indicated by the Edition date.
Here's what the above book has to say about color signals:
Red: Stop.
Yellow: Proceed as prescribed by the rules.
Green: Proceed, and for other uses prescribed by the rules.
White: Flag stop (See Rule 28) and for other uses prescribed by the rules.
Blue: As prescribed by Rule 26 and for other uses.
Purple: When used on siding derails--Stop: and for other uses as prescribed by the rules.
Lunar: For use as prescribed by the rules.
Wow, so much "use prescribed by the rules"! Rule 26, by the way, discusses "Inspection and Repair Protection". So, in particular, it's equivalent to the famous blue flag.
These books are informative reading. You should pick one up for your particular railroad and era. That, and an employee timetable.
The one I've got is for: Milwaukee, DRI&NW, Des Moines Union, DSS&A, GN M&St. L, MNS, Soo, Minnesota Transfer, NP, SP&S, SI, and UP. Pretty much the railroads of the Northwest.
Ed
7j43k gregc if a passenger train stops at a depot, what is a station? from "The Consolidated Code of Operating Rules, Edition of 1959": "STATION.--A place designated in the timetable by name." There WILL be a sign at the physical location. That is all that is required. A building may or may not be attached to that sign. My wording of that sentence implies the sign is more significant than the building. For operating people, that's true.
I've seen more than one otherwise knowledgable railroad scholar get messed up due to those station signs when adding a caption to a photo. "The AB&C railroad train takes the side track at Wilson, Wisconsin". Well no, it isn't in Wilson Wisconsin. Back when the railroad built the siding, it was way out in the country. One switch was near a farm owned by a family named Wilson, so they identified it as "Wilson" with a sign. The other end of the siding was by a rock quarry so got a "Rock" sign.
In urban areas, sometimes the station sign takes the name of the nearest street or some other landmark.
7j43kOn a different note, recall that Dave keeps mentioning "lunar", and I don't. There were (and are, I guess) different rulebooks for different railroads.
There are hundreds of rules books issued by many railroads and groups of railroads, with different versions issued every 10-20 years. Some changes and variations are minor, some are significant in wording, most are pretty much the same when you boil down to the intent of the rule.
I was trained on the 1968 UCOR and the 1985+ GCOR.
As you can tell by the title of the one I quoted, there was consolidation of these rules.
The North American railroads, through the AAR developed a generic set of rules. The railroads modified them to meet the specific needs and policies of the individual railroads. Groups of railroads, often geographically associated railroads, would get together and form a committee to develop a common rule book for the railroads. There were several of these. The UCOR, CCOR were common in the west in the 50's through the 80's. GCOR is common in the west now and NORAC is common in the east. The Canadian and Mexican railroads have their own rule books (there is a separate UCOR that applies to just Canadian roads).
Here's what the above book has to say about color signals: Red: Stop. Yellow: Proceed as prescribed by the rules. Green: Proceed, and for other uses prescribed by the rules. White: Flag stop (See Rule 28) and for other uses prescribed by the rules. Blue: As prescribed by Rule 26 and for other uses. Purple: When used on siding derails--Stop: and for other uses as prescribed by the rules. Lunar: For use as prescribed by the rules.
These are general signal color definitions, generally applying to color light and flag signals and don't necessarily apply to block signals. There are separate block signal rules that have specific aspects and indications defined.
Red doesn't always mean "Stop". For example in the track diagram provided, in many rule books, there wouldn't be a single "Stop" signal on the entire subdivision. Every one of the signals shown has a number plate which, under many rule books would make them all "stop and proceed" or "restricting" signals depending on era. Depending on era, what you do at a stop and proceed signal can vary. In older rule books, you would have to stop, then proceed at restricted speed at every restricted speed signal. In some rule books from the 1980's-1990's, you would stop and proceed at restricted speed, and then if you encountered another stop and proceed signal while moving at restricted speed, you wouldn't have to stop, you could pass it at restricted speed. In man recent rule books it becomes a "restricting signal", where you don't have to stop, you just proceed at restricted speed. Same signal, three different methods of proceeding, none of them a "Stop" signal.
In ABS even a "Stop" signal (all red, no number plate or an "A" plate) isn't necessaily a Stop signal. In many rule books, if its not an interlocking, and the train has authority beyond the signal, the train should stop at the signal, attempt to contact the dispatcher, if they can't contact the dispatcher, they can pull past the signal by 100 feet, wait 10 minutes, then move at restricted speed to the next signal and be governed by that signal. If they do reach the dispatcher the dispatcher will check to make sure there aren't any conflicting movements, if there aren't, he will authorize the train to pass the stop signal and proceed at restricted speed. In the UCOR that was called a "350-104c" for the two rules that the dispatcher and train crew had to comply with to pass the signal.
In the UCOR a "lunar" signal is actually a "Low" signal Rule 290 and it indicates that a train should proceed at Low Speed:
1. Within ABS- to the next signal in the direction of movement.
2. At interlockings outside ABS- through the interlocking limits.
3. Where this signal governs movement onto a non-signaled track - until entire train is through the turnout.
Option 3 would be the situation heading into an unbonded siding. You can't have a clear into an unbonded siding, because the signal system doesn't know if the track is indeed clear. You can't have a diverging approach into an unbonded track because the signal says to proceed through the diverging route, prepared to stop at the next signal, but doesn't tell you to watch out for other stuff on then unbonded track.
But that's the '68 UCOR. In the '80 CCOR lunar just means proceed at restricted speed. In the '59 CCOR, on the MILW lunar means restricting, on the GN and SOO a lunar means a spring switch is lined normal and the MSTL and NP don't use lunar.
oops!
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
dehusman BRAKIE I don't know of any dispatcher that would allow a runaround move if either block was occupied. Actually the only way a dispatcher can "authorize" a runaround is in Rule 251 or one of the modern systems like TWC or DTC. In TT&TO there really isn't a mechanism for a dispatcher to "authorize" a runaround in ABS or dark single track. The train crew would make the move by flagging.
BRAKIE I don't know of any dispatcher that would allow a runaround move if either block was occupied.
There is no flagging today with two men crews so a dispatcher would need to know.
dehusman BRAKIE I don't know of any dispatcher that would allow a runaround move if either block was occupied. If its ABS, how would he know? The dispatcher wouldn't have any idea whether the train was standing on the main when it was run around or was in the siding.
If its ABS, how would he know? The dispatcher wouldn't have any idea whether the train was standing on the main when it was run around or was in the siding.
A dispatcher is paid to know where the trains are at on his section of railroad and direction of travel or being held in a siding as you should know.No dispatcher would be ignorant enough not to know since he is responsible for that section of track.
BRAKIEA dispatcher is paid to know where the trains are at on his section of railroad and direction of travel or being held in a siding as you should know.No dispatcher would be ignorant enough not to know since he is responsible for that section of track.
Dispatchers do not know where trains are in dark or ABS terrritory unless the train crew or an operator tells him. There is NO system in dark or ABS territory that tells a dispatcher which switches are lined or where the train is. he knows what he authorized but doesn't know where the trains are. Even in modern TWC and DTC, the dispatcher knows what section of track a train is in and he can have a rough guess on where it "should" be, but he doesn't know where it actually is, unless the crew, or another train, or somebody else tells him where they are. If there are hot box detectors that announce a train's presence over the radio, he might hear the HBD announce something passing over the detector and figure that was the train but nothing actually tells him that is the train.
In TT&TO, the train could put out flags and be doing all sorts of stuff, and unless the crew, or another train or the operator tells the dispatcher what's going on, he would never know.
gregcmy basic understanding of signaling is to position signals at either end of a siding used to allow trains to pass one another on a single track mainline.
One thing that would provide clarity is the era and method of operation on the main track (TT&TO, TWC, DTC, Rule 251).
The basic premise, above, is misunderstood in ABS. The positions of signals in ABS are such that they provide protection for following and opposing moves. What determines where a train meets another train, when it can leave the siding and who is in the siding and who is on the main has nothing to do with the signals in ABS. All of that is determined by the rules, the method of operation and what the authorities given to the train say. In ABS, the block signals never tell a train to head into the siding. The signals never tell a train to leave the siding or a meeting point. The signals control the speed of the trains in the block and tell the trains to look out for something in the block. They tell the train how to proceed, they don't tell the train when to proceed or give the train authority to proceed (except in Rule 251).
dehusman gregc my basic understanding of signaling is to position signals at either end of a siding used to allow trains to pass one another on a single track mainline. One thing that would provide clarity is the era and method of operation on the main track (TT&TO, TWC, DTC, Rule 251). The basic premise, above, is misunderstood in ABS. The positions of signals in ABS are such that they provide protection for following and opposing moves. What determines where a train meets another train, when it can leave the siding and who is in the siding and who is on the main has nothing to do with the signals in ABS. All of that is determined by the rules, the method of operation and what the authorities given to the train say. In ABS, the block signals never tell a train to head into the siding. The signals never tell a train to leave the siding or a meeting point. The signals control the speed of the trains in the block and tell the trains to look out for something in the block. They tell the train how to proceed, they don't tell the train when to proceed or give the train authority to proceed (except in Rule 251).
gregc my basic understanding of signaling is to position signals at either end of a siding used to allow trains to pass one another on a single track mainline.
In ABS single track territory, a green signal doesn't necessarily mean you can go. A red signal doesn't necessarily mean you have to stay.
Jeff
jeffhergertIn ABS single track territory, a green signal doesn't necessarily mean you can go. A red signal doesn't necessarily mean you have to stay.
Exactly. I remember riding CPR's The Canadian back in the mid 1970s pulling up to a stop at a green signal. The fireman or trainman got out and reversed the switch so we could clear into the siding. Unfortunately I can't remember what the signal aspect was, or even if it had one or two heads. In those days we didn't have to wait long before the opposing train appeared.
dehusmanDispatchers do not know where trains are in dark or ABS territory unless the train crew or an operator tells him.
There is no operators today as you know..The DS and his computer knows all even in dark territories. CR issued track permits for the local that operated between Crestline and Lima.
thanks
one aspect of the hobby is to better understand the how real railroads work. I know some modelers truly try to model real railroads in contrast to building a model railroad.
as i add signals to my model railroad, they've made me wonder about how real railroads use them. In my case, i'd like the signals to be helpful as well. So as you've helped me understand, i realize what i'd like to do is not prototypical and I'm fine with that.
what i'd like to do is make the signal indicate "stop" if the turnout is aligned to an occupied track at a siding (station/depot). This would be helpful to me when I operate my model RR.
i appreciate all the explanations. I wouldn't be surprised if over time i see the weaknesses of what I've done and can better appreciate prototypical operation.
gregc thanks one aspect of the hobby is to better understand the how real railroads work. I know some modelers truly try to model real railroads in contrast to building a model railroad. as i add signals to my model railroad, they've made me wonder about how real railroads use them. In my case, i'd like the signals to be helpful as well. So as you've helped me understand, i realize what i'd like to do is not prototypical and I'm fine with that. what i'd like to do is make the signal indicate "stop" if the turnout is aligned to an occupied track at a siding (station/depot). This would be helpful to me when I operate my model RR. i appreciate all the explanations. I wouldn't be surprised if over time i see the weaknesses of what I've done and can better appreciate prototypical operation.
Greg, I stayed out of this conversation because you already had plenty of good info.
But reading your last post, I will say this. Back in the the 50's, 60's and 70's many of the greats in this hobby installed on their layouts, and strongly advocated for, simplified signal systems.
Systems that give reasonable prototype appearance and function, but take into account the compressed nature of even the largest layouts.
Simple rules.
ABS, automatic block signals, simply indicate occupancy and safe routes thru turnouts.
CTC, centralized traffic control, dispatcher sets routes/turnouts, and clears trains to proceed by clearing signals, occupancy repots to dispatcher and limits clear signals.
In the first 2/3rds of the 20th century, every railroad had different signals/rules. Sure, many were similar, some not.
So making up your own simple version is just fine.
My layout uses simplified CTC, similar to Bruce Cubb's or Ed Ravenscroft's early systems.
It ignores intermediate block signals in favor of only using interlocking or "home" signals. It uses approach signals to "fake" some intermediate signals. It ignores many "yellow" indications, only showing them on restricting speed routes or mirroring a red on an approach signal.
These signals tell the mainline engineer exactly what to do. Just like real life, the dispatcher is in charge, the engineer just runs the loco.
Sheldon
BRAKIE dehusman Dispatchers do not know where trains are in dark or ABS territory unless the train crew or an operator tells him. There is no operators today as you know..The DS and his computer knows all even in dark territories. CR issued track permits for the local that operated between Crestline and Lima.
dehusman Dispatchers do not know where trains are in dark or ABS territory unless the train crew or an operator tells him.
What Dave said is correct. Indeed there are no operators, so the dispatcher must rely on the radio to talk to the crew when he needs to know where they are. The computer shows only what section of track the train's operating authority owns but that can easily be 40 miles or more. I often hear a train being asked for a track release so the dispatcher can give the track behind it to another train or MofW.
An experienced dispatcher will have a good mental image of where the trains most likely are but he won't know for certain unless the train crew explicitly tells him. If the DS has the right radio tower keyed in, by chance, he might hear the train calling a station name. He can use that only to update his mental image, not authorities.
One more thought, much of the prototype info offered as been about more current/modern practice.
The OP did not indicate what era he models, it may well be before radios...........and before current standardized signal practice.
The very first words of the very first installment of the Star Wars saga was a simple, straightforward declaration of fact: "A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away . . ." And thus, the reality of the fiction was established.
The signals on my layout are based, more or less, on the Kansas City Southern system. I looked at others, but the KCS system was the easiest to understand and seemed to fit my purpose. Even so, I modified it slightly. My system is clear (at least to me) and consistent: when the signal shows green over red, it indicates that the next two blocks of the mainline are clear and that both switches ahead are closed (i.e., aligned to the main); it indicates that the next signal encountered might be yellow, but the next signal encountered won't be red. Other aspects would indicate other conditions, and other conditions would show other aspects. Simple. Blasphemous to some maybe, but simple.
Your railroad, your rules.
Good luck.
Robert
LINK to SNSR Blog
ATLANTIC CENTRALSystems that give reasonable prototype appearance and function, but take into account the compressed nature of even the largest layouts.
And that's basically what I suggest to people, just make an approximation that shows what information you want it to show and keep it simple, don't worry about prototype signal placement, etc. What most people what are occupancy or switch position indicators. If that's what you want do that. Recognize it won't be prototypical in many cases and accept that.
I suggest to people modeling TWC or DTC to "pretend" they have ABS. What ABS does in prevent trains from running into each other and in most cases model railroad operators can see to the next station so the chances of running into something on a model railroad are slim. However in the operating rules, ABS gives you a lot more options with regard to bunching up trains that comes in real handy on a space compressed model railroad.
gregc what i'd like to do is make the signal indicate "stop" if the turnout is aligned to an occupied track at a siding (station/depot). This would be helpful to me when I operate my model RR.
You don't mention, here, which direction you're going. I'm going to assume the approaching train is coming towards the points-end of the track switch. Anyway, yes, it can be done.
The biggy is the detection system. You've got to detect the train (if it's there) in the siding. The simplest would be to use one or more optical detectors. Set them up so that the light beam(s) cover enough trackage to pick up the train. You take that information through contacts on the switch machine to pick up the switch position. And then over to the "relay" for the color indication for the signal. It's all pretty stand-alone, then, and you don't have to think about a whole signal system.
You COULD make it a bit simpler by having the signal go from green (for the main) over to yellow (for the siding). Then you could just run the signal wires through the switch machine contacts. THEN you put in a little dwarf signal (maybe lunar white) that ONLY indicates the track occupancy. Wiring that should be super easy, just based on directions that come with the optical detector stuff you buy.
Yup. That's what happened to me. At first, I just wanted signals with their pretty lights. Well, they look pretty stupid if they never change color. And it just kept going......
As you can tell, I'm only part ways along, and still have much to learn. Which is fun. To me. If I every get to it, I have plans to build an arduino-based fully signaled interlocking. Wish me luck.
dehusman ATLANTIC CENTRAL Systems that give reasonable prototype appearance and function, but take into account the compressed nature of even the largest layouts. And that's basically what I suggest to people, just make an approximation that shows what information you want it to show and keep it simple, don't worry about prototype signal placement, etc. What most people what are occupancy or switch position indicators. If that's what you want do that. Recognize it won't be prototypical in many cases and accept that. I suggest to people modeling TWC or DTC to "pretend" they have ABS. What ABS does in prevent trains from running into each other and in most cases model railroad operators can see to the next station so the chances of running into something on a model railroad are slim. However in the operating rules, ABS gives you a lot more options with regard to bunching up trains that comes in real handy on a space compressed model railroad.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Systems that give reasonable prototype appearance and function, but take into account the compressed nature of even the largest layouts.
Agreed.
As an Advanced Cab Control DC operator, simulating CTC in the early 50's, my needs are ratger different from those modeling more recent systems.
By eliminating all intermediate signals and approach aspects trains can be bunched up in every block when necessary.
With a dispatcher on duty, his job assigns route, track power and clears signals all with the push of just a few buttons.
Interlockings are protected like the prototype, the route must be clear, and detection prevents turnouts from being thrown under the train.
If an engineer runs a red signal, ATC kicks in, and his train just goes into emergency stop.
cx500What Dave said is correct. Indeed there are no operators, so the dispatcher must rely on the radio to talk to the crew when he needs to know where they are. The computer shows only what section of track the train's operating authority owns but that can easily be 40 miles or more. I often hear a train being asked for a track release so the dispatcher can give the track behind it to another train or MofW.
Then why not annull that DS job since he is not under control of his section of track? Surely that man is there for a reason beside drinking coffee..
I thought I'd mention the MSS signal system, here.
It does a very credible job of ABS signaling. It also picks up track switches thrown against a train. It also will do route-indicating, so I guess it's also sort of a simple-minded CTC system.
Last time I was running trains at a set-up using MSS, I started out running my train by looking down the track to visually check switch alignment and occupancy. After awhile, I noticed that I had drifted into using the signal indications. SO cool!
MSS doesn't use a computer, just simple wiring logic. It works with pretty complicated trackage (wyes and return loops). I have not seen it set up for a continuous "toy train" loop, though.
There was a pretty beginner-friendly introduction in one of the train mags, but I can't find it right now. Here's a less beginner-friendly version:
http://modularsignalsystem.info/index.html
The system was developed for Free-mo, but can easily by transferred over to a single layout. While it is extremely useful to understand how the system works, when you need to troubleshoot; it can, in fact, be built pretty much "mechanically", as in "put this thing here"--"wire this tab over to that tab".
BRAKIE cx500 What Dave said is correct. Indeed there are no operators, so the dispatcher must rely on the radio to talk to the crew when he needs to know where they are. The computer shows only what section of track the train's operating authority owns but that can easily be 40 miles or more. I often hear a train being asked for a track release so the dispatcher can give the track behind it to another train or MofW. Then why not annull that DS job since he is not under control of his section of track? Surely that man is there for a reason beside drinking coffee..
cx500 What Dave said is correct. Indeed there are no operators, so the dispatcher must rely on the radio to talk to the crew when he needs to know where they are. The computer shows only what section of track the train's operating authority owns but that can easily be 40 miles or more. I often hear a train being asked for a track release so the dispatcher can give the track behind it to another train or MofW.
The DS is very definitely in control of his section of track, and often very busy.
That first train could not use it until the DS gave him authorization to occupy it. How much track will depend on how busy the line is, since the DS will be giving other trains and track forces authorities elsewhere on the subdivision. Unlike using signals in CTC, the authority is given verbally over the radio and until it is repeated back (correctly) by the train cannot be confirmed. That is a somewhat time consuming process. So the "block" of track for which the train is authorized will be as long as possible, much the same as a DS in CTC may clear the signals through a series of control locations long before the train needs the last one. In CTC once the train has passed a control location the DS can then line it for some other movement. (The lights on his board or screen indicate when the train is occupying a control point, and its approximate location (within a few miles) between them.) In dark territory he must confirm with the train that it has passed the location he wants to use to authorize another movement.
For dark territory the DS now usually has a screen showing over what sections of his territory there are active train and track occupancy authorities, to ensure no laps are issued. It may in some ways resemble a screen in CTC, but it has no ability to track the actual movement of a train. That must be done verbally over the radio, and the screen updated manually by the DS.
cx500For dark territory the DS now usually has a screen showing over what sections of his territory there are active train and track occupancy authorities, to ensure no laps are issued. It may in some ways resemble a screen in CTC, but it has no ability to track the actual movement of a train. That must be done verbally over the radio, and the screen updated manually by the DS.
cx500,Thanks! That makes perfect sense. The DS would need to answer questions if things went South in a hurry..
Here's why I didn't fully buy into the DS not knowing where his trains was..
In case you haven't heard NS is suing the crew that had that wreck in Kentucky.
Accountability has taken the next step.
BRAKIEHere's why I didn't fully buy into the DS not knowing where his trains was..
I'm surprised that you weren't familiar with the what an "OS" was.
The dispatcher doesn't know where the trains are outside of CTC territory in any era. In the TT&TO days, the operators would give the dispatcher an "OS" to report the locations of the trains so the dispatcher would know where they were. Without the OS the dispatcher doesn't know where the trains are.
dehusman In the TT&TO days, the operators would give the dispatcher an "OS" to report the locations of the trains so the dispatcher would know where they were. Without the OS the dispatcher doesn't know where the trains are.
On the PRR trains was indeed OS because there was tons of manned towers that was the last glory days of railroading..
Today there is no manned towers,no OSing GPS and computerized DS'ing is used. CSX closed F Tower at Fostoria five(?) years ago and those are hot diamonds and connectors.
In dark territory the DS better know where his trains is.
If that NS lawsuit against that crew stands its a new world of railroad accountability for the rank and file.
Railroads are wanting one man crews and toying with the idea of crewless trains in the future..
BRAKIE dehusman In the TT&TO days, the operators would give the dispatcher an "OS" to report the locations of the trains so the dispatcher would know where they were. Without the OS the dispatcher doesn't know where the trains are. On the PRR trains was indeed OS because there was tons of manned towers that was the last glory days of railroading.. Today there is no manned towers,no OSing GPS and computerized DS'ing is used. CSX closed F Tower at Fostoria five(?) years ago and those are hot diamonds and connectors. In dark territory the DS better know where his trains is. If that NS lawsuit against that crew stands its a new world of railroad accountability for the rank and file. Railroads are wanting one man crews and toying with the idea of crewless trains in the future..
Accountablity? The signals were dark. Somebody left the switch set to the siding, and somebody told the AMTRAK train to proceed.
So somebody lied, or somebody made the mistake of a lifetime.
But if the dispatcher was told the main was clear, and the signals were dark, the crew is responsible, seems pretty clear to me.
In this age of cell phones and radios, with the signals down, one person not there can only act on the information he is provided.
So that is the question, did the crew report the switch as lined to the main? If they did, it falls on them.
Had the signals not been dark, the dispatcher and the AMTRAK crew would have known the switch was not lined to the main, no matter what the crew said. No crash............