I have been to plenty of railroad museums and taken many excursions pulled by steam locomotives, but I never get to see the steam locomotive start up. How does it sound?
I ask this because I recently bought a BLI i5 4-6-4 Steam locomotive and the start up sequence sounds just like my EMD Diesel locomotive from BLI. Actually, the shutdown sequence sounds the same also.
Don't get me wrong, these are beautiful locomotives with excellent sound decoders in my opinion. I was just wondering how a steam locomotive sounds on start up and if this is a realistic representation on these sound decoders .
Not knowing what your model sounds like, let me say this, a steam loco doesn't have a "start up" or "shut down" anything like a diesel! Firing up a cold steam loco takes hours. Hours that your decoder doesn't have and even if it did it would bore you to death!
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The Chama webcam has not very good sound but you can see that they don't shut them down until the end of the season. The ones not on an excursion sit there smoking day and night.
You should put a trip to the the Durango Silverton or Cass RR on your bucket list.
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
Here's a LINK that pretty-well covers the whole procedure, and explains why you probably wouldn't want to replicate it in model form.
Wayne
Wayne,
Love that article!
I haven't really paid much attention to the programmed start-up sounds for steam locomotives. But I HAVE heard them, and I don't recall much that sounded like a diesel.
My recollection is that you hear the sound of a blower (steam directed out of the stack to increase draft which increases the heat of the fire which produces more steam......). And then you hear the generator whine start up. Maybe a firebox door clanking, and maybe a blowdown in there somewhere.
I believe they're simulating a start-up of a very warm engine.
Definitely not diesel-y, though.
Ed
PS: A friend let me run his Rio Grande Challenger over the weekend. He equipped it with WOW sound. What was really neat was that it drifted if you shut off the throttle. That is, it kept rolling and the chuffing shut down. SO neat. I want that in all my sound steam locos. Oh, yeah. You had to use a brake, too. 'Cause it took a LONG time for it to drift to a stop. As one of my kids tends to say: Sweet.
Vernon Smith in his book "One Man's Locomotives" gives a detailed description from his fireman days of the late 1920's of what it was like 'starting' a cold 0-6-0 switcher used in mine service on the Mesabi Range in Minnesota. It involved getting coal (in this case, sacks of coal) to put in the firebox, lighting the fire with 'waste' or a fusee, putting water in the tender (from a hose) and slowly adding coal until the fire was burning well. Once there was steam pressure enough to move the engine, he took it to the coal dock to fill the tender.
IIRC from the start until the engine was ready to move took a couple of hours. With a large engine, if it was cold, it could take much longer.
Cheers, the Bear.
"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."
JaBear,
Thanks for sending that along. Not only informative and entertaining but a very fine looking engine. Good photography too.
Roger Huber
Deer Creek Locomotive Works
Thanks for all the information and links everyone. It was very educational.
I had no intention or expectation of the model going through a 3-5 hour+ start up sequence howeverI did not expect it to have the same start up sequence (or very similar) to my diesel. I was expecting a short 20-30 second abridged sound sequence simulating key sounds associated with steam locomotive start up...the clink and squeak of a fire box or boiler door opening, coal being shoveled, the firing up of the boiler, the sound of water being added, the release of steam, the slam of heavy steel boiler doors closing etc....all in a short abridged sequence. Instead it sounds just like a deissel starting up.
I guess they just do a basic simulated start up to audibly convey to the user or observer that particular locomotive is starting. I probably won't use the start up sequence but rather just engage the lsteam licomotive in neutral and let it just huff and release steam in place manually for about 20-30 seconds to get that realistic feel.
When I looked at this thread's title I wasn't thinking of lighting off from dead cold. My assumption was that the steamer was starting a train - ie, changing from the minor hiss of the inevitable leaks and the whine of the generator to the first few minimum-cutoff CHUFFs, with the escaping-steam hissing roar of the open cylinder petcocks in sync. Then, after a few turns of the drivers the petcocks would be closed, with the volume of the Chuffs dropping as speed (and cutoff) increased.
Back in the day, I visited a nmber of major steam locomotive termini. With the exception of locomotives undergoing serious repair, every one was in ready condition - fire on the grates, pressure in the boiler. Getting one ready to move consisted of lighting off the generator, releasing the brakes and opening the throttle. Once coupled to its train, the brake pump would have to charge the train line and car reservoirs (thu-Thump, thu-Thump...)
Shutting down a steamer - letting it go dead cold - would probably include shaking the entire fire into the ash pit. Remaining steam and superheated water in the boiler would be enough to move it to a roundhouse stall or storage track. If rain could be expected the stack would be covered to keep water out of the smokebox.
The one thing I'm sure of is that there was absolutely no similarity in sound to anything with an internal combustion engine.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - with silent locomotives)
WHen you say it sounds like a diesel starting up, surely you don't mean there is the sound of an engine cranking, right?
There really won;t be much of a startup for a steam loco, because all of those other sounds are generally already individually controlled - you can turn on the light and you will hear the generator spin up first, you can turn on the injector to put water in the boiler, most have a water fill sound of the water tower filling the tender, etc. The air pump comes on at random, but many decoders also have a function key to activate the air pump sound so you cna pump up a train air line on demand.
Any of the decent diesel sound decoders have the sounds of the cab door opening, a few switches being thrown, and the engine being cranked up. The Loksounds in some of the newer Bowser Alcos even have the air starter sound (air operated starter motor - most use electrical starter motors, but some Alcos used air starters - vasty different sound).
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
rrinkerThe Loksounds in some of the newer Bowser Alcos even have the air starter sound (air operated starter motor - most use electrical starter motors, but some Alcos used air starters - vasty different sound).
Mike
rrinker WHen you say it sounds like a diesel starting up, surely you don't mean there is the sound of an engine cranking, right?
He's said just that twice, now. I'm beginning to believe that that is exactly what he means. Which is, of course, kind of shocking. As in: What were they thinking????
That said, there may be some sort of CV value that can be changed to correct it. Maybe the fine folks at BLI can help on the matter.
Does it sound like a steam locomotive when it is running?
On the model, with decoder, you get an air let-off, or a coupler crash, or a toot...something that definitely does not sound like a prime mover being cranked from cold start...if that's what you mean. The models will have a steam turbine sound as the generator spools up and lights will go on if that function is pressed already. You'll get blower hiss, pop offs, blow downs, and others.
On the real thing, it will be a dull roaring sound as the fire catches and begins to burn well. You'll hear loud compressed air acting in the stead of steam coming from the blower under the stack, or you'll hear a fan that sits atop the stack orifice doing the same job, except sucking air out of the smokebox.
Within a few minutes, you'll hear clicking and other metallic sounds as the firebox and rear tube-sheet get hot, and then the tubes and flues will make noises as they hear. When there's a few pounds of boiler pressure, the blower valve will be opened to help get hot gasses flowing better down the tubes.
Three or five hours later, depending, other valves will be opened and you'll get dynamo sounds, or the air pumps will begin to thumb and hiss. Steam will leak from cylinder cocks if the throttle seat isn't clean and young. You'll get steam leaking from stuffing boxes. Later, feedwater pumps or injectors can be heard replenishing what little boiler water has been used up in any other processes and leaks during boiler firing. If the engine has a stoker, you'll hear that grind away and the noise of coal bits hitting the sidewalls and back wall of the firebox....maybe. A constant dull roar throughout, though, will be the air being drawn through the grates and up into the firebox as, even during a slow and deliberate warming of the boiler, the consumption of coal will be in the hundreds of pounds an hour.
Hey everyone,
Just to clear some things up, as I said the BLI i5 4-6-4 has excellent steam locomotive sounds. The sound sequence in question was only the start up sequence. I have never seen in person or on video a steam locomotive fired up from a cold standstill. I am also not 100% familiar with the mechanics and electrical systems on a steam locomotive.
What I wrongly interpreted as a deissel sound at start up was the sound of the turbine generator starting up. It then goes into different steam locomotive sounds such as water fill, air release, steam release, stand still chug, whistle, etc....all excellent sounds.
So, with all the information and resources provided here I now have a better understanding of steam locomotives.
Thanks Everyone!
I think the start-up is somewhat like this. My analogy could be somewhat speculatory but let's start from the start.
The fire is lit. The water slowly starts to boil. You hear a bubbling sound Amplified by the steel shroud enclosure. The metal heats up, starts to expand and contract, snaps, clicks and pops. The pressure release valve hisses letting you know she's alive and ready to roll. Open up the valve to the Pistons engaging the drive rods to the wheels, a clank as they take up the slack. She chuffs, she huffs, she puffs. She's alive, She's breathing. Down the rails you roll.
When I stood next to Union Pacific Challenger 3985 in Shakopee. I really felt like the thing was alive. I'll never forget it.
BigDaddyThe Chama webcam has not very good sound but you can see that they don't shut them down until the end of the season. The ones not on an excursion sit there smoking day and night.
Henry,That's what they call banking the fire..Back in the day a holstler and his helpers would maintain the fire and water level and before the engine was due out they would bring the steam up to operating pressure..
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"