my understanding is that an empty (MT) foreign railroad car is always routed back to the foreign railroad without a load (MT) and therefore never used to pick up a load on a foreign RR.
I've read a suggestion that roughly 50% of the freight cars on your railroad should be the home railroad. So roughly half the cars at industries on your layout should be the home RR and roughly half the cars on a freight train should be the home RR. right?
so a home RR freight car may be spotted at an industry to either drop off a load or as MT to pick up a load. And since only home RR cars would be used to pick up loads at an industry, roughly half the cars being spotted at industries would be home RR cars assuming equal number of industries consume and supply freight cargo.
does it make sense that a home RR freight car would be moved MT from one industry to another industry on the same switchlist?
also out of curiosity, would home RR freight cars be stored in a yard, left (MT) at an industry if the track is not needed or possibly moved to an empty spur until needed?
do any switch list methods handle MT home RR freight cars in this way?
if indeed, half the cars on a layout are for the home RR, it seems that these issues would be quit common.
thanks
greg
greg - Philadelphia & Reading / Reading
gregcmy understanding is that an empty (MT) foreign railroad car is always routed back to the foreign railroad without a load (MT) and therefore never used to pick up a load on a foreign RR
That is incorrect for most cars. Foreign cars can be "confiscated" for a load heading in the general direction of the owning railroad. And in earlier eras especially, "general direction" was pretty broadly defined.
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Here's one well-known example. The travels of a new boxcar (Monon #1) were tracked as part of a Monon promotion. The car was away from home rails for months in both loaded and empty moves.
Here's a web page with more information on this specific car, but the routing would have been similar for other general-purpose cars at the time. Smaller railroads (like the Monon) would have cars spend more time on foreign rails than larger railroads, just due to national route mileage.
gregcI've read a suggestion that roughly 50% of the freight cars on your railroad should be the home railroad. So roughly half the cars at industries on your layout should be the home RR and roughly half the cars on a freight train should be the home RR. right?
Nope if you count short lines that doesn't own freight cars.
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First the railroad does not own the industry siding the industry owns it so,it's private track. The empties is usually held in the yard or outlaying yard that serves a industrial area.Home road empties can be haul in a train to where they are needed or if they are assigned to a industry pool..The same goes for some foreign road cars assigned to that pool.
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Does it make sense that a home RR freight car would be moved MT from one industry to another industry on the same switchlist?
Depends. A customer request a 53' double plug door boxcar he will have no use for a 50' boxcar. A general service 50' boxcar needed for scrap rubber could be moved from one industry to the other but,there are work agreements and job description that must be followed IIRC we was allowed two such moves.Of course this varied from road to road.
A local is not set up to do terminal switching because we did not have the time or needed room..We would "cherry pick" cars at outlaying yards for delivery.These cars was few in number so,it wasn't a major switch.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
thanks for the clarifications
cuyamaForeign cars can be "confiscated" for a load heading in the general direction of the owning railroad. And in earlier eras especially, "general direction" was pretty broadly defined.
the Monon car example suggests that it is fairly common to confiscate a foreign car for freight originating on a home road.
So the owner of the car gets a share of the freight fee and the originating road and each road the car travels on gets a share of the freight fee?
Does this presumably benefit the originating road by providing quicker service to the customer rather than having to transport a car available some distance away, saving money?
in the Monon case, it was a brand new car. Is the same likely to occur for an older and dirty car?
if there is demand for/ shortage of cars, is it in the interest of a small RR to build cars that may rarely travel within the owner's territory as a source of income?
gregcif there is demand for/ shortage of cars, is it in the interest of a small RR to build cars that may rarely travel within the owner's territory as a source of income?
It could be, but when there is a traffic decline, they could find themselves with a surplus of car and no place to put them.
gregcin the Monon case, it was a brand new car. Is the same likely to occur for an older and dirty car?
Some of the loads placed into the new Monon car would likely not have been placed into an older car and/or dirty car (food items).
gregcSo the owner of the car gets a share of the freight fee and the originating road and each road the car travels on gets a share of the freight fee?
Only if the car owning road actually handles the freight. I think the owner only gets a per diem charge by the day or mileage (depends on car type).
The Code of Car Service Rules and Per Diem rules can be found at the back of the ORER. In my ORER (JAN 1943) the code can be found on pp 1022-1039.
gregche Monon car example suggests that it is fairly common to confiscate a foreign car for freight originating on a home road.
Yes.
The calculation is a bit complex and I am not knowledgable in that area. There is plenty on the topic on the Internet.
Yes, the process is exactly the same. But as noted, different ladings for cars in poor condition. Shippers demanded higher-quality cars for valuable or easily damaged or contaminated ladings.
Perhaps not in the transition era, but rules were changed in the 1970s to address a supposed shortage of boxcars (in particular), which created the Incentive Per Diem (IPD) market. This led to many smaller railroads (often through leasing companies) rostering large numbers of boxcars that might never run on "home" rails.
Keep in mind, it costs money (employee wages, fuel consumption etc.) to move a freight car, whether it's full or empty. If a railroad in the east sends one of their loaded cars out to the west coast, they'd just as soon have the car get loaded with a load headed towards the east and have the car making some money, rather than have to pay to have the empty car sent across the country.
If let's say a BNSF boxcar were used to move paper products from Washington state to New York City, the railroad in NYC would probably try to find a load that was going west, in BNSF's general direction. Ideally it would be to a city served by BNSF like Chicago or Dallas, but at least they'd probably try to get it moving towards BNSF territory.
gregc the Monon car example suggests that it is fairly common to confiscate a foreign car for freight originating on a home road.
The AAR defines 23 "home districts" for car service and different roads are in one or more home districts. By the AAR rules (not laws) a car should be loaded to, through or closer to a home district.
No. The roads in the route of the car get a share of the revenue. The owner of the car doesn't get any share of the revenue (unless they are in the route). The owner of the car gets "car hire" (per diem) which was calculated on a calender day basis in earlier eras and an hourly basis later. Car hire is paid whether the car is loaded or empty, moving or stopped. Some cars may also get a mileage charge. Private cars generally just get a mileage charge.
All railroads benfit from maximizing the number of loaded miles. Hauling empty cars doesn't really generate any revenue and costs the railroad.
Yes. With the caveat that an older car may not be suitable for certain loads (a paper mill, food or consumer goods customer won't load a contaminaed car with a bad floor and a leaky roof.
Double edged sword. Building cars requires a lot of money and all you are going to get in return is car hire. Most short lines have an agreement with the class one railroad that will get the "road haul" to provide cars or they confiscate inbound loaded cars for outbound loads.
That's why the "Incentive Per Diem" (IPD) program was started in the 1970s to incent railroads to build 50 ft boxcars. The higher per diem made the railroad money and the cars were considered "free runners" that could be loaded anywhere and weren't subject to the return home rules. In fact, there were several small shortlines that had more IPD boxcars than they had miles of track. They literally could not recieve all their own cars if they were all returned empty.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
cuyamaThat is incorrect for most cars. Foreign cars can be "confiscated" for a load heading in the general direction of the owning railroad. And in earlier eras especially, "general direction" was pretty broadly defined.
Given that, I don't understand the routing of Monon #1. Black squares are on Home Road. Red arrows show States on Itinerary, not location in State
US-Map-Detailed-EPS_zpsdiyrubck by Donald Schmitt, on Flickr
I tried to sell my two cents worth, but no one would give me a plug nickel for it.
I don't have a leg to stand on.
DSchmittGiven that, I don't understand the routing of Monon #1. Black squares are on Home Road. Red arrows show States on Itinerary, not location in State
As I noted, the "general direction" aspect of the car routing rules was very broadly defined and loosely applied. And sometimes ignored. So cars could ramble quite a bit before returning to home rails.
Remember the routing is supposed to be home district, not home road or home state. Monon is in car district 15 which include Michigan, Indiana and Ohio. The majority of the moves pass through those states or a state adjacent to those states.
dehusmanRemember the routing is supposed to be home district, not home road or home state.
Good point.