Trains.com

Subscriber & Member Login

Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!

Auxiliary Tenders for Steam Locomotives

23445 views
43 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    February 2010
  • 384 posts
Posted by Redore on Wednesday, March 15, 2017 7:22 PM

Missabe used water tenders for their cross range ore drags.  They were modified tank cars.

  • Member since
    January 2017
  • 2,980 posts
Posted by NWP SWP on Sunday, March 12, 2017 10:02 PM

Does anyone remember posting this image? It showed up when I was google image searching and the link attatched leads to my thread here. Under the link it reads "Love this tender!!! CV." hope that helps some.

Image result for vanderbilt tender with doghouse

Steve

If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!

  • Member since
    January 2017
  • 2,980 posts
Posted by NWP SWP on Saturday, February 18, 2017 7:53 PM

Cool!

Steve

If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!

  • Member since
    August 2003
  • From: Collinwood, Ohio, USA
  • 16,281 posts
Posted by gmpullman on Saturday, February 18, 2017 10:55 AM

B&O had at least fifteen water tenders, some with a dome like ordinary tank cars and some with larger hatches like the model pictured below:

They were primarily used with their Q-class Mikados. Maybe other classes?

Ed

  • Member since
    January 2017
  • 2,980 posts
Posted by NWP SWP on Friday, February 17, 2017 10:31 PM

Yes I agree.

Steve

If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!

  • Member since
    September 2010
  • 121 posts
Posted by Canadian Big Boy on Friday, February 17, 2017 5:03 AM

NDG, nice photos, like the turntable bridge. I get lots of inspiration from old photos! Thanks.

NDG
  • Member since
    December 2013
  • 1,618 posts
Posted by NDG on Thursday, February 16, 2017 11:40 PM

Canadian Big Boy

NDG, the only reason I said it was the CNR is because the CPR sold the line through Penzance to the CNR before 1920, from what I've read, but I'm no expert!

 

 

Sorry, did not mean to offend. I was basing photo on owner of equipments shown, and know very little about the location or area.

No expert.

FWIW.

Here is another CP photo w/water cars, in this case, tender tank on flat car behind lead locomotive.

Water cars on work train building Pecten/Drywood Spur to sulphur plants South from Brocket on CP Crowsnest Sub. west of Lethbridge, 1957.

Spur being built for the Diesel Age, and NO water for steam engines en route = water cars.

http://www.trainweb.org/oldtimetrains/photos/cpr_steam/5427.jpg  

Some of LAST Steam use ex Lethbridge, 1959.

Bridge on route old Turntable.

http://www.bigdoer.com/24595/short-subjects/turntable-turned-bridge/

Thank You.

 

  • Member since
    January 2017
  • 2,980 posts
Posted by NWP SWP on Thursday, February 16, 2017 10:06 PM

I see.

Steve

If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!

  • Member since
    September 2010
  • 121 posts
Posted by Canadian Big Boy on Thursday, February 16, 2017 6:45 PM

NDG, the only reason I said it was the CNR is because the CPR sold the line through Penzance to the CNR before 1920, from what I've read, but I'm no expert!

  • Member since
    August 2003
  • From: Collinwood, Ohio, USA
  • 16,281 posts
Posted by gmpullman on Thursday, February 16, 2017 5:17 PM

Athearn just announced M-of-W tenders that could easily be "back-dated" to auxiliary water use.

http://www.athearn.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=ATH11295

Regards, Ed

 

NDG
  • Member since
    December 2013
  • 1,618 posts
Posted by NDG on Thursday, February 16, 2017 4:59 PM

Canadian Big Boy

This picture is Penzance Saskatchewan 1947. Three CNR ten wheelers, and auxillary water tenders.

 

 

 

 

May I respectfully suggest it is an all CP Consist.

Mountain Plow being used as drifting snow can set similar to concrete and be walked upon. Kind of snow that can be cut w/ knife to build winter shelter out of snow blocks.

Locomotives coal burners and coal bunkers covered to keep fuel dry and snow blowing into cab from rear thru cab curtains at speed. These are Tank Car conversion water cars. Hand rail on roof to enter/exit plow in motion, or stuck in drift.

A flat land plow's visor would hit deep snow, and raise plow, or get broken. Snow is not always soft and fluffy.

Many CP plows and Spreaders had cast off Steam Locomotive Headlights into Eighties. Replaced as 375 W Locomotive Bulbs no longer made and Diesel sealed beams available and 'Standard'.

Garbage Can Geeps had screw in bulbs, and most changed to sealed beams. A topic in itself.

( I walked across a snow slide in the Mtns. full of sticks and rocks, every piece sharp, the debris field as solid as concrete.

A fall would have meant instant impalement. After 50 feet or so, I walked back to truck side, descended and walked around toe. Have photo, just have to find it. Reason Rotarys had problems re trees, rocks and Mountain Goats or Sheep. )

Small sign w/ two holes, Signal Yellow, by switch points indicates 'Close Clearance' to Trainmen riding car sides, e g Loading Ramp. Post by switch stand to hold Shovel and Switch Broom above snow level. Switch Brooms had a Chisel on top end to break out ice in points. 

From an 'Operating' point of view one can see the Delay when taking water. Say each 'tank' needs 4000 Gallons x 6 spots and filling. Hope water tank not frozen and had 24,000 Gallons in it.

Turning whole consist on Wye would be a thrill, esp if tail too short.

A turntable would be worse, esp if Pit full of snow.

These are 4-6-0s. Heavier locomotive may be prohibited re bridges, turntable length., etc.

 

Thank You.

 

 

  • Member since
    September 2010
  • 121 posts
Posted by Canadian Big Boy on Thursday, February 16, 2017 11:46 AM

This picture is Penzance Saskatchewan 1947. Three CNR ten wheelers, and auxillary water tenders.

 

  • Member since
    January 2017
  • 2,980 posts
Posted by NWP SWP on Sunday, February 12, 2017 8:26 PM

I see.

Steve

If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!

  • Member since
    April 2003
  • 305,205 posts
Posted by Anonymous on Friday, February 10, 2017 2:20 AM

A little bit more about Fuel Tenders, Scaletrains.com makes an aux water tender and aux fuel tender in HO scale.  They are UP prototypes.  Aux fuel tenders really only work for liquid fuels (im not sure how you would move coal from an aux tender to the firebox past the water in the standard tender).

  • Member since
    January 2017
  • 2,980 posts
Posted by NWP SWP on Sunday, February 5, 2017 9:46 PM

I see, did T-1s ever use auxiliary tenders? (That's the Pennsy 4-4-4-4 Duplex T-1s, they're my favorite locomotives; sad they were all scrapped but at least the T-1 Trust is trying to change that!)

Steve

If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!

  • Member since
    August 2003
  • From: Collinwood, Ohio, USA
  • 16,281 posts
Posted by gmpullman on Sunday, February 5, 2017 9:30 PM

I'm far from a Pennsy tender expert but I was under the impression that what was nicknamed the "Lines West" tender—AKA Crawford Hood Tender—was the distinctive one with the inward sloping coal bunker? I could be mistaken.

As discussed here...

http://prrthsdiscussionweb30239.yuku.com/topic/2777/Lines-West-tenders#.WJfqafkrLRY

While on the subjest, here's a couple of PRR L1s with auxiliary tenders...

Regards, Ed

  • Member since
    January 2017
  • 2,980 posts
Posted by NWP SWP on Sunday, February 5, 2017 8:32 PM

I kind of figured that, thanks!

Steve

If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!

  • Member since
    May 2004
  • 7,500 posts
Posted by 7j43k on Sunday, February 5, 2017 8:27 PM

cascadenorthernrr

Does anyone have a picture of the Pennsy Lines West Tender?

 

 

It would be the big thing behind the locomotive:

 

 

 

Ed

  • Member since
    January 2017
  • 2,980 posts
Posted by NWP SWP on Sunday, February 5, 2017 7:58 PM

Does anyone have a picture of the Pennsy Lines West Tender?

Steve

If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!

  • Member since
    January 2017
  • 2,980 posts
Posted by NWP SWP on Sunday, February 5, 2017 7:55 PM

Very interesting indeed.

Steve

If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!

  • Member since
    February 2005
  • From: Southwest US
  • 12,914 posts
Posted by tomikawaTT on Sunday, February 5, 2017 5:46 PM

The Pennsy answer to the auxiliary tender question was the 'Lines West' 16-wheel tender - half again longer than some of the locomotives so equipped.

The NYC 'Centipede' in the photo was only traveling at moderate speed.  At track speed it would create the equivalent of a localized monsoon.  Don't ask how I learned this...

One class of Bayer-Garratt towed a water car as its primary water supply - it had a huge bunker, and rather modest on-board water capacity.

As far as I've been able to determine, there was only one class of Japanese locomotive that had a 'canteen.'  The IGR 4030 class 0-8-0T (Baldwin 1897) ended up running a branch too long for its side tanks.  The 'canteen' was a four-wheeler about the size of a scale test car - or an apartment house dumpster, which it resembled.

Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - with modernized 4030, sans dumpster)

  • Member since
    January 2017
  • 2,980 posts
Posted by NWP SWP on Sunday, February 5, 2017 11:59 AM

Thanks!

Steve

If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!

NDG
  • Member since
    December 2013
  • 1,618 posts
Posted by NDG on Sunday, February 5, 2017 3:42 AM

 

Eclectic mix Water/Fire Cars.

CP Tender.

http://www.trainweb.org/oldtimetrains/photos/bcr/CP_415815.jpg

This one was at D&H Rouses Point for years.

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/pictures/66490/Binghamton-DH35508-01.jpg

https://search.nbca.unbc.ca/uploads/r/northern-bc-archives-special-collections/3/5/f/35fc737df712093fe5c15f3f1091a64f08ddaa85127cb6ca4d394a673c860e08/2013_6_36_1_016_19.jpg

This one is especially elegant!!

https://search.nbca.unbc.ca/uploads/r/northern-bc-archives-special-collections/f/2/7/f278eafd2a4a191534fa5cf5f2268563d8e87ebd75a5cfcc3dcf5c5e04903089/2013_6_36_1_016_16.jpg    

https://search.nbca.unbc.ca/uploads/r/northern-bc-archives-special-collections/f/2/8/f28e7cb02e0610fee0b74361bbb2ef74623bf404eca0358388306b9a8bccf7d9/2013_6_36_1_016_22.jpg

OT. One of two.

https://search.nbca.unbc.ca/uploads/r/northern-bc-archives-special-collections/7/e/9/7e9da508d4d25da492fd9e9aaa7db1e7e7b206998e7d7ad7253828d8db93993b/2013_6_36_1_010_68.jpg  

As Here.

https://search.nbca.unbc.ca/uploads/r/northern-bc-archives-special-collections/c/b/2/cb2900d56b6944cc8f7c489ed83d01d4f0e925bb948ab770d0ee71c9bc0b3478/2013_6_36_1_010_65.jpg


CNR had MANY water cars ex Vanderbilt Tenders.  Usually Painted Silver

https://search.nbca.unbc.ca/uploads/r/northern-bc-archives-special-collections/5/a/d/5ada73ef6aedb63a69d2bc8052ec4f174f14cb809c675f4e35365d9224c04a59/2013_6_36_1_009_45.jpg

Love this tender!!! CV.

http://www.bytownrailwaysociety.ca/images/equipment/tender4264/CV_Tender.jpg


This one w/pump and spray bar to put out brake shoe sparks descending grades. CZ 7128 BLW beyond.

http://www.okthepk.ca/dataCprSiding/news/2010/images/10031002.jpg


CZ 7128. Shot gun exhaust for each cylinder. Blew smoke rings. Ex USA.

http://yourrailwaypictures.com/Logging/CZ_7128a.jpg

Still have to find good photo of a water car/tender in use behind a steam locomotive.

Time to go.

Tank You.

  • Member since
    January 2017
  • 2,980 posts
Posted by NWP SWP on Saturday, February 4, 2017 10:06 PM

Thank you!

Steve

If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!

  • Member since
    April 2003
  • 305,205 posts
Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, February 4, 2017 9:28 PM

More reading about solving the carrying enough water problem:

http://www.american-rails.com/pan.html

  • Member since
    November 2013
  • From: Las Vegas, Nevada
  • 233 posts
Posted by JOHN C TARANTO on Saturday, February 4, 2017 8:00 PM

oldline1
The tender would be equipped with a scoop lowered by the fireman by pneumatics at a designated spot. The scoop would drop into the pan and the forward momentum of the train would force water up the scoop into the tender.  The train had to slow considerably from normal track speed to scoop water so as not to damage the tender or the pan or possibly derail or damage the tender structure.

Actually, tenders on New York Central Locomotives were equipped with special venting which permitted scooping water at track speed.

Photo courtesy of the New York Central System Historical Society.

Notice the extra-large coal bunker.  These are the PT-type (AKA Centipede) tenders which were used on Niagara 4-8-4 locomotives.  Some Hudsons were also re-equipped with this tender type after 1945.

"Shovel all the coal in, gotta keep 'em rolling"...  John.

  • Member since
    May 2004
  • 7,500 posts
Posted by 7j43k on Saturday, February 4, 2017 5:12 PM

The photo shows a GN water car in use.  GN also used big steam on this line (2-8-8-0's and 2-10-2's) without water cars.  I suspect this one had the extra water because it was a way switcher and "lingered" a lot:

 

 

These models will be coming in any day, now.

Individual GN water cars were imported quite some time ago--Oriental Limited, I believe.

 

Ed

NDG
  • Member since
    December 2013
  • 1,618 posts
Posted by NDG on Saturday, February 4, 2017 4:45 PM

 

Not an expert on Water Cars.

CP had old tenders used as Auxiliary Water Cars for use behind a 'working' tender.

CP also had Water Cars which were tank cars with Dome cut off, a wood platform with rails, and a hatch where dome used to be.  These were also used to bring water to outfit cars in remote locations where water might not be available.

( I once as a side duty, did not get paid, had to 'fill' Water Cars in Gang Service WITH A GARDEN HOSE over a weekend and it took forever, and affected water pressure for showers, etc.

When full, it would overflow until shut off and hose removed. 

A Tank Car Type was usually abt 8000 Gallons, and some had oil company logos still on them.

Some Water Cars were modern 1930's steam tenders, some still in full striping from Psgr Service, and a six digit OCS number applied. and they never filled, if empty, over a weekend.

Other true tender water cars still had COAL in them, and stoker screw just just off. And a coupler, grab irons and a Hand Brake .)

Anyway.

Adding a water car to a locomotive w/tender added 'Delay' a nasty word, often.

The second water car/tender had to be spotted up, a second move, then filled. Thats why some track side water tanks were 100,000 gallons if water supply was ONLY 1000 Gallons an hour from source. The 'Ball' on top of mast was attached to a float inside, and Engineers, Pumpmen, etc could see level in side by ball.

Trackside water tanks had to be heated, a Briquette stove for the purpose in base, it's chimney passing thru water space in tank above.

Some tanks leaked, and you could stand under leak in summer and cool off.

Agent or Section Foreman looked after tank stove. Bruce would know if Agent got paid for tank heater.

With an auxiliary tender, a locomotive might be too long for turntable, so locomotive and tender, then auxiliary tender would have to be turned, as water connections usually on only ONE 1 end of auxiliary car. Ditto being too long for inside a Roundhouse to keep warm when not under steam.

Tenders could freeze, and steam could be sent back thru Injectors or piping to water. Oil tenders had tank heater to keep oil at optimum operating temps, as various oils had to be kept warmer than others for Firing, or would 'Gel' if too cool.  The top of intake for oil to locomotive burner was  raised up off floor of oil bunker and had a screen on top to prevent inhalation of rag or waste that had fallen in thru filler hatch atop.

The condensate from steam coils would collect in bottom of oil tank and have to be drained regularly. Some oil fuel was messy and could contain water from refining process, as it was often a 'Garbage' fuel and "CHEAP,' another Operating Word in use much of the time similar to the word 'SAFETY'

I do NOT know if there were steam lines MUd to a water car for winter? Only certain locomotives would be Plumbed to accommodate a water car connected behind.

I assume a water car was just drained when not needed in cold weather, and left outside.

Filling TWO cars, tender/water car took more time than filling ONE larger tender applied, and a larger tender got rid of the extra plumbing and may well have not increased whole locomotive length for turntable/roundhouse.

I have not seen any water cars added to any 'Big' steam locomotives on CPR, nor used in passenger service on Main Line type service.

Not all water was really good for locomotive service, so, with an extra tank, a locomotive could travel further, and pass up poorer quality tanks re boiler scaling and treatment.

If only 1 or 2  trains a week, the Company might well give every train a water car, and eliminate  'Bad' water tanks, decreasing costs, and stops?? CP put oil burners on one long run to obviate need for coaling en route.

Water Cars could also be used in Fire Service in Summer and some so assigned w/ pumps and hoses.

Much More could be added.

This may be a start??

Thank You.

 

I have to go to Starbucks, the snow has stopped and now okay to walk.

 

I will look for CP water car photos when I get back, as they are out there.

  • Member since
    January 2017
  • 2,980 posts
Posted by NWP SWP on Saturday, February 4, 2017 4:30 PM

Wow thanks!

Steve

If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!

Subscriber & Member Login

Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!

Users Online

There are no community member online

Search the Community

ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT
Model Railroader Newsletter See all
Sign up for our FREE e-newsletter and get model railroad news in your inbox!