Someone on another forum asked why some D&RG steam locos have one or more ends of a driver axle painted red. Anyone here know why?
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Which ones? When? Had not heard of this practice, but curious where this info comes from. It wasn't common, because there's no evidence I can see in a quick recehck of the limited color imagery available.
keep in mind that the last of the Rio Grande steam had outside frames. There's a big counterweight that goes round and they're obviously not red.
It may be someone is talking about shop markings? Alamosa had different practices than Salida, etc. Maybe one painted axles ends in shop? Maybe what paint does show is quickly buried in road grime. But whatever the case, if it's there it's practically invisible.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
Naw man...Think BIG...as in L-131 2-8-8-2
Maybe the guy that paints the insides of the bells red had a little paint left over?
Can't remember where but I have also seen "stars" painted on axle ends (SP?). I have seen cases too, where a long-time engineer or foreman would be honored at retirement by the shop crews "fancying-up" an engine with bunting and signs, more so in the early part of the 20th century but occasionally in the later years, too.
It is possible that the red paint signifies a roller-bearing equipped driving box, therefore no inspections of the grease cakes were needed or that a particular oil was needed to top off the fill plug.
Many roller bearing equipped wheelsets were stenciled NFL for No Field Lubrication. In other words, hands off to the car knockers. Opening of roller bearing casings outside of the shop could cause dirt and water to get in there.
Over the lifetime of some locomotives they seem to go through a great many variations.
Interesting,
Ed
BigJim wrote the following post 2 hours ago: Naw man...Think BIG...as in L-131 2-8-8-2
Big standard gauge steam; if only I could afford one of those. Georgious!
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
It's on a model, so that means it had to have been on the prototype, right?
Looks nice, but a reference or color photo of the prototype would be more persuasive.
Not saying it ain't so, but have sat through lots of discussion of Rio Grande steam, more NG than SG, true, but don't recall any previous mention of such a practice, let alone proof of it.
[quote user]Looks nice, but a reference or color photo of the prototype would be more persuasive.[/quote]
Someone on another forum asked
Was this the forum??? Ogauge RR Forum?
Scroll down here for two color photos and some discussion:
http://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/topic/red-driver-axle-ends-on-rio-grande-engines-1
Why can't I copy a quote? Everything is acting goofy tonight internet wise! Can't copy from Photobucket either!
I still think it has to do with roller bearings or lubrication methods. Didn't UP paint their roller bearing hubs silver?
Regards, Ed
Ed,
Yeah, I don't know about UP, but that doesn't really solve red on Rio Grande axles. I know some of this group worked out of Utah, so maybe something that Salt Lake did, but just guessing.
What it reminded me of finally rose to the top of my mind. What other group of locos that you may be familiar with often had red axle ends IIRC? Late production Chinese steam locos, the 1:1 flavor. Heck, there are probably still guys building models in China who might think you paint every steam loco, 1:1 or model, with red axle ends, just because. You have to check the delete on the brass order form to avoid getting red axle ends. Someone forgot to check delete? Just saying....
Yeah, still not sure these pics prove anything but random application of paint. Someone in the discussion linked above suggested that photo evidence of a couple of locos should be extended to demontsrated evidence this was a regular Rio Grande practice. However, give the scarcity of any evidence beyond a few random pics and what we know about lack of standardization in such practices regarding decoration between shops, that's a real stretch.
The question also hasn't come up on the Yahoo Rio Grande list AFAIK. If you want the best minds to look at this, that's where this question should go. So far, sounds like someone wants more to tease out a discussion about this than get to the bottom of it. Of course, if I'd spent thousands on a loco that was painted this way, I'd hope to find some evidence for it despite the seeming lack or extreme scarcity of the practice. Outside of having a pic that proves a particular loco had these, I'd just skip the red entirely as that seems to be the standard.
" So far, sounds like someone wants more to tease out a discussion about this than get to the bottom of the it."
mlehman,I post a legitimate question and you make an ignorant statement like that!
Who says the best minds on Yahoo anyway? You? Maybe someone on Yahoo may have the correct answer, I just don't belong to that group or I would have posted it there too.
BigJim
Those photo's were photoshopped! Just kidding! Hah hah. Honestly I've seen a fair number of SG steam photo's but never noticed any red painted axles.
I've been on the Yahoo Groups Rio Grande email list since 1995 and don't recall ever seeing this discussed. It's totaly new to me. But I'm diesel era fan so it's entirely possible I didn't pay enough attention if it was brought up.
BigJim,
My comment was only directed at the inefficiency of parceling out morsels of info already posted in full elsewhere. Simply summarize the info and let's not return to Square One in replaying every twist and turn of something already discussed. It's also helpful to just post the link in order to facilitate that. Make your case to the best of your knowledge and then let's discuss further.
I don't know about Yahoo in general having the best minds, but when it comes to Rio Grande discussions, the roughly two decades of discussions in its Yahoo group between acknowledged Rio Grande experts is a good place to start if you want a definitive answer. You do NOT need to be a member to review past discussion and joining is free and easy if you want to post.
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/DRGW/conversations/messages
To the best of my knowledge, this has never been discussed there, an indication that red axle ends are unusual or rare enough that it would be difficult to make an argument this was some sort of standard. This is not to say they didn't exist, just that it's hard to justify painting any loco in this manner unless you had direct evidence that the spcific loco in question had red axles ends at some point.
riogrande5761I've been on the Yahoo Groups Rio Grande email list since 1995 and don't recall ever seeing this discussed. It's totaly new to me.
Jim,
Looks like our memories are overlapping on this. I'll plead old age myself, if my memory missed it.
As to the possibility that Photoshop was involved, the thought had passed my mind, too.
But the lack of consistency in WHICH axles are red in the pics displayed so far suggests nothing more than random guy with red paint. Is it all drivers, some drivers, the crank/main pin driver, etc? There's no pattern here and the general lack of any indication of red in the vast majority of color steam era pics strongly suggest it wasn't the result of a standard marking practice.
The discussion I'm linking here doesn't answer this question, but much of it was drawn from discussion on the Rio Grande Yahoo list.
http://utahrails.net/drgw/drgw-green-boilers.php
If anyone knows the answer to this question, it folks like these. Down near the bottom there is some back and forth about how different shops adopted their own unique decorative practices and the confusion this caused when these locos were worked on elsewhere. The problem never really went away completely, based on other evidence and seems to have extended to the SG as well. That's where you'll most likely find an answer to this.
The only information that I have on D&RG locos is a short article about the 4-6-6-4's and it mentions that they had a Le Chatelier water brake. Could it be the red axle designates that the loco is equipped with a Le Chatelier water brake?
Probably not. Many narrowgauge locos were equipped with it (generally spelled Le Chatelier, though), too, and no red axle ends there AFAIK.
Here's a link to a good thread on it BTW: http://ngdiscussion.net/phorum/read.php?1,7295,7304#msg-7304