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Signalling in 1920's Maine

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Signalling in 1920's Maine
Posted by FowlmereRR on Tuesday, March 15, 2016 9:53 AM

I am in the early stages of planning my retirement railroad (15 months to go till "R-day", so plenty of planning time yet Confused), and am currently considering a freelanced Maine coastal shortline of some sort, set in 1920's (ish). One of the many things I need information about is what style of signalling would I have encountered there in those days. I am UK-based, so hard copy books on US railroad subjects are difficult to find and forums like this are a fantasic source of inspiration and advice, so I am hoping somebody can point me at some appropriate online information.

Thanks in anticipation,

Bob

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Posted by mlehman on Tuesday, March 15, 2016 9:57 PM

Bob,

Hang in there, you have at least a day off coming soonBig Smile

My guess is there would be very little signaling on a Maine shortline. Maybe train order boards with semaphore signals at stations with an operator would generally be about as fancy as things get.

There is the possibility of a grade crossing of another RR. That might merit a ball signal, which can be photogenic.

There would be easy to model in HO or larger. N might take some skills to get a ball signal working, but semaphores should be available in N and anything larger.

One thing that might work for you is to make the crossing RR narrowgauge, with a nearby interchange. Bob Brown, NG&SL Gazette editor/publisher, had a famous example in his Wiscasset On2 module at the 1968 NMRA convention. Some pics here and it leads you to the On2 website: https://maineon2faq.wordpress.com/category/contributors/bob-brown/

IIRC, there is a ball signal at the SG/NG crossing that should show in at least one of the pic's of Bob's layout.

Mike Lehman

Urbana, IL

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Posted by tstage on Tuesday, March 15, 2016 10:11 PM

Bob,

Given that they were used frequently in the New England states and, especially - along the water, a ball signal would be quite appropriate, as well as unique.

You can scratchbuild your own...or you can purchase one from Bollinger Edgerly Scale Trains, which is based on the last remaining ball signal in Whitefield, NH.  The Fall 2003 issue of Classic Trains had a fascinating article about them.  Worth picking up - if you're interested.

Tom

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Posted by DSchmitt on Tuesday, March 15, 2016 10:16 PM

I agree with mlehman's guess.

A Ball signal could be used at a station or train order office instead of a symaphore.

Dosen't answer your question, however here is a paper on signal types from the University of Denver.

http://mysite.du.edu/~etuttle/rail/sigs.htm

 

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Posted by andrechapelon on Tuesday, March 15, 2016 10:57 PM

FowlmereRR

I am in the early stages of planning my retirement railroad (15 months to go till "R-day", so plenty of planning time yet Confused), and am currently considering a freelanced Maine coastal shortline of some sort, set in 1920's (ish). One of the many things I need information about is what style of signalling would I have encountered there in those days. I am UK-based, so hard copy books on US railroad subjects are difficult to find and forums like this are a fantasic source of inspiration and advice, so I am hoping somebody can point me at some appropriate online information.

Thanks in anticipation,

Bob

 
A shortline really wouldn't use signals. The closest a shortline would come is train order signals at manned stations with operators. The best known Maine shortline (standard gauge) is the Belfast & Mooosehead Lake Railroad, which ran from Belfast, ME to Burnham Junction, ME where it interchanged with the Maine Central. The B&ML used lower quadrant train order signals.  Here's a link to some historical info: http://cprr.org/Museum/BMLRR/ . There's a photo of the Brooks station near the bottom of the page which shows the lower quadrant train order signal.
 
There's quite a bit of information at the above website, so check out all that's available.
 
While not a shortline, the Rockland Branch of the Maine Central might also be of interest. Up until about 1950, there were 4 passenger trains in each direction between Portland and Rockland. In summer, there was even Pullman service. Signalling on the MEC in the 20's would have been done with lower quadrant semaphores.  Tomar Industries manufactures some: https://www.tomarindustries.com/signals.htm  Sample: https://www.tomarindustries.com/H840.jpg
 
Hope this helps.
 
Andre
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Posted by DSchmitt on Wednesday, March 16, 2016 12:45 AM

It is not necessary for a train to stop to pick up trainorders.  While the photo on this site is too modern, note the man standing by the track in the second photo. It was done the same way in 1920 and probably 1850. In this case, the train order signal notifies the crew that their are orders so they can grab them on the fly.

http://www.carrtracks.com/sr3160.htm

 

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Posted by FowlmereRR on Wednesday, March 16, 2016 6:09 AM

Thanks to everybody for your comments. That is really very useful !

I rather like the idea of a ball signal or two (I have an interchange siding planned to give me reason for my line to exist) and a nice little scene could be made out of that.

I do appreciate the time you guys take to help the likes of me. One day I would aspire to being able to return the favour to somebody else.

I intend, once construction is underway, to post details and elicit comments and critique.

 

Best regards,

Bob

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Posted by tstage on Wednesday, March 16, 2016 11:11 AM

Bob,

I look forward to seeing what you come up with.

BTW, I scratchbuilt a dual light/ball signal for my layout a few years back.  It's based on the article and pics in the Classic Trains article mentioned above.  FWIW, here's the how-to diagram I created for it in .pdf format.  A pic of it can be found here.

Tom

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Posted by dehusman on Wednesday, March 16, 2016 1:58 PM

One has to realize that in the 1920's "shortlines" were not the same as they are today.  They were a lot more common and weren't cast off's from class one railroads but were just small, fully functioning railroads, most of which were combined into larger railroads (or went bankrupt and were abandoned).  Many of the larger railroads were call "... lines" or "... system" because they were aggregations of many smaller shortlines.

A very common method of operation where there were passenger trains in that era is "manual block" that used the train order signals and telegraph to operate a form of block signal system.  Rarely modeled since it requires a lot of operators and is very communication intensive.

After that, it would be semphore train order signals and maybe interlocking signals (substutue ball signals).

Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com

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Posted by FowlmereRR on Wednesday, March 16, 2016 2:25 PM

Dave - thanks for your contribution. I fear I may be using the term "shortline" inappropriately, so let me describe better what I have in mind. 

My ficticious single track line will run between an interchange with another railroad (B&M ?) plus a small yard, and a harbour area (inspired by the Bar Mills Wharf Street layout) where assorted fishing, passenger ferry and commercial stuff will be found. On the way there will be whatever local industries I fancy modelling. I'd like to incorporate a quarry, perhaps, because I like the idea of a small ore dock in the harbour for loading a barge. Anyway, whatever ends up on the layout will be because I'd like to model it, though I want to avoid making any gross errors, particularly with regard to what existed in the era (e.g. no 1950's cars on a 1920's layout! And no diesels.). It is hard enough sometimes to work out here in my native UK whether this or that existed or was used at a particular point in time, so I am very much feeling my way with regard to US railroads.

Why Maine? Well, I have visited there (and will return one day soon) and loved the feel of the coastline. So, I am inventing a railroad that ticks my boxes for all the things I want to model. But althouigh ficticious, I want to make it at least credible.

Is it a shortline? I guess you can decide that, but that's the plan. Hey! If they wouldn't have had signals, that just makes one less detail to worry about.

Bob

 

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Posted by gmpullman on Wednesday, March 16, 2016 8:01 PM

Hello, Bob

I have you beat in the "Big R" countdown! I'm down to 166 days Big Smile !

I might suggest browsing Ebay for an employee timetable for Maine Central, Bangor and Aroostook, Boston & Maine and a handful of others.

http://maineanencyclopedia.com/railroads/

The above site has a few interesting tidbits to get you started.

Here are a few pages of a 1938 B&M timetable that I have scanned that reference ball signals, which Tom pointed out, and some other interesting special operating instructions (carrying lighted lanterns into the Tide Water Oil refinery and avoid unnecessary whistling at Dover during night)

 

 

 

If you click on any of these images you will be taken to the folder in Photobucket where I have more pages scanned that have some reference to signaling. When in Photobucket you can click the + symbol in the upper right of the image to zoom in for easier reading.

These are not all located in Maine but is a representation of some of the signals used on the B&M and to give you some ideas of the interesting variety of the operating rules and conditions you can learn from paging through an employee timetable.

Good Luck on your project, Ed

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Posted by Steven Otte on Thursday, March 17, 2016 9:34 AM

Slate quarrying would be appropriate for Maine. The Monson RR (last of the Maine 2-footers) was built to haul slate from the quarries in Monson, Maine, to a Bangor & Aroostook interchange.

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Posted by FowlmereRR on Thursday, March 17, 2016 9:43 AM

Steven - I like the idea of slate - different texture to the usual ballast-like ore loads. I shall reserach more on what such a facility may have looked like.

And Ed - thanks so much for those links. I've got much reading to do now.

Bob.

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Posted by tstage on Thursday, March 17, 2016 1:23 PM

FowlmereRR
Why Maine? Well, I have visited there (and will return one day soon) and loved the feel of the coastline. So, I am inventing a railroad that ticks my boxes for all the things I want to model.

Bob,

I totally understand your enamor-ment with the coastline of ME.  My wife and I have camped outside of and visited Acadia NP three times now (most recently, 2014) and love the area.  And everytime I dream of vacation - it's usually ME.

Tom

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Posted by Steven Otte on Thursday, March 17, 2016 4:26 PM

FowlmereRR

Steven - I like the idea of slate - different texture to the usual ballast-like ore loads. I shall reserach more on what such a facility may have looked like.

Bob.

 
Do a Google image search for "Monson slate quarry." You'll get many vintage images, as well as at least one colorized postcard of a Monson RR slate train. Most of the slate products shipped out stacked on flatcars that were manually transloaded at the B&A interchange, making for some really interesting looking loads.

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Posted by Anonymous on Friday, March 18, 2016 1:01 PM

Bob,

Maine Central's Rockland Branch and Calais Branch both fit your coastal themed Maine railroad.    The Best of Maine Railroads by Ron Johnson (printed 1985) has black and white photos and discusses the history of Maine railroads. 

 

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Posted by Anonymous on Friday, March 18, 2016 1:10 PM

FowlmereRR
My ficticious single track line will run between an interchange with another railroad (B&M ?) plus a small yard, and a harbour area (inspired by the Bar Mills Wharf Street layout) where assorted fishing, passenger ferry and commercial stuff will be found. On the way there will be whatever local industries I fancy modelling. I'd like to incorporate a quarry, perhaps, because I like the idea of a small ore dock in the harbour for loading a barge. Anyway, whatever ends up on the layout will be because I'd like to model it, though I want to avoid making any gross errors, particularly with regard to what existed in the era (e.g. no 1950's cars on a 1920's layout! And no diesels.). It is hard enough sometimes to work out here in my native UK whether this or that existed or was used at a particular point in time, so I am very much feeling my way with regard to US railroads.

That actually existed, in Maine, on the coast.  The Limerock railroad in Rockland Maine, was a standard guage railroad interchanged with the Maine Central.  Color photos can be found in Maine Central in color Volume 3 p58-60 (Morning Sun Books). 

The Wiscasset, Waterville and Farmington Railway also fits your bill, although it is a narrow guage operation.  I say is not was, because it is in operation as a tourist line.  This line also interchanged (or transloaded cargo, as MEC was a standard guage line) with the Maine Central, in Wiscasset, Maine on the Rockland Branch.

 

 

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Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, March 19, 2016 5:01 PM

As far as signals go (original question), ball signals for junctions/crossings were common in Maine.  As well as upper or lower quandrant symaphores (depended on railroad).

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Posted by FowlmereRR on Monday, March 21, 2016 6:06 AM

Andrew - Many thanks for your contributions. I think now I have plenty to go research. Trouble is, all that stuff called "work" (paid and domestic) keeps getting in the way !

Regards, Bob

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