Explains a whole lot of stuff, doesn't it?
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
Dave,
FYI: The right side of your post runs off the viewable text box. Since this is the only post I've seen this happen on, I don't think it's my computer.
Tom
[Edit: That's MUCH better, Dave. ]
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
Sorry Tom - problem has been fixed but I lost the pictures.
It is an oft repeated story, but one with a somewhat minor flaw: Roman roads were only eight feet wide. Their carts could not be five feet wide and have space to pass on the roads. By the way, the roads were paved, so no ruts in the first place.
However, the original horse drawn mine carts had outside flanged wheels. A five foot axle gives you a cart wide enough for a horse to pull it. If you build your wheels a few inches wide on the tread, you end up with a gauge of 4'6" to 4'8"...
NittanyLion
I added a caveat.
I wonder if the part about the booster rockets is true?
Many things take their dimensions from real life- the 9 inch riser on a stair, the height of a desk or table, the width of a common chair seat- practical experience was a driver of these "standardized" things, going back centuries or even millenia. No suprise that railroads- being "roads"- should have such ancestral origins as well. And people think that "human factors engineering and design" is something new and a "modern" approach?
As for the boosters on the old space shuttle, it probably isn't the first time things have been built with an eye towards how they would be transported- think of mobile homes!
Cedarwoodron
Sorta. Yes the rocket motors had to fit through the tunnels (and under bridges and by signal masts, fuel risers, switch stands and station platforms.) And yes the gauge sorta determines the clearances because it nominally determines the width of the car. However you will find that among roads with standard guage there is a wide difference in clearances. A nominal clearance engine in the US will be to wide for many lines in Europe.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
One link from a Google search for, railway track gauge history
http://www.snopes.com/history/american/gauge.asp
Do it yourself for more info.
Rich
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.
The most believable story I've ever encountered was that Robert Stephenson was the engineer at a mine that used 4 foot 8 inch gauge cart tracks. When he engineered the Stockton and Darlington (and designed the Rocket) he eased the gauge 1/2 inch as a concession to the longer wheelbases of the passenger 'wagons.'
Isambard K. Brunel built the Great Western Railway to 7 foot 1/4 inch gauge - and often made disparaging comments about, "Stephenson's mine cart gauge."
As for sizing tunnels to suit the loads on the railroad, the U. S. Government Railroad (Boulder City, NV to Hoover Dam, 1933-1963) was standard gauge - but the five tunnels were sized to pass segments of 56 foot diameter penstock pipes. They look almost wide enough for double track, and would be no challenge to double hi-cube stacks or any Schnabel car load I've ever seen in photos.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
I can't imagine fitting into any tunnel was a factor in the SRB design. If there had been some tunnel between Thiokol's site in Utah and Florida/California, they'd have just transported them a different way or selected a new site. Its more likely they were moved by rail because it just happened that the canisters they shipped the segments on fit on railcars. You'd have probably seen a few C-5 Galaxies flying booster segments around or a contractor selected that had barge access.
I like to read both history and historical fiction. Never have I heard of the Roman Army using chariots. Roman bigshots used chariots, especially for parades.
Subject tribes provided troops to aid the legions as part of their tribute. These troops used the system they had found useful locally, which is where they served.
As mentioned, flagstone surfaced roads would never have had narrow ruts in them, Said roads were designed for infantry to move rapidly, but in many places more than a bowshot from the road was dense woods, not good for massed chariot charges. Also paved roads are hard on horses hooves, especially unshod ones.
Just my nickels worth, as we no longer use pennies.
Dave just reminded me of a historical fact. The Persian Emperor Darius was the last big user of chariots, back when Rome was a country village. Alexander the Great came up with the pike pocket, which rendered the chariot useless as a weapon. In Rome, chariots were the equivalent of Formula Ferraris, racing vehicles virtually useless for ordinary transportation.
Caesar discovered that the pike pocket tactic also worked against elephants.
Chuck (Modleing Central Japan in September, 1964 - 3' 6" and 2' 6" gauges)
Sounds like the article was a bunch of hooey (can I use that word here?).
Anyhow, it seems to have stirred some interesting conversation.
tomikawaTT Dave just reminded me of a historical fact. The Persian Emperor Darius was the last big user of chariots, back when Rome was a country village. Alexander the Great came up with the pike pocket, which rendered the chariot useless as a weapon. In Rome, chariots were the equivalent of Formula Ferraris, racing vehicles virtually useless for ordinary transportation. Caesar discovered that the pike pocket tactic also worked against elephants. Chuck (Modleing Central Japan in September, 1964 - 3' 6" and 2' 6" gauges)
One of the greatest quirks in history to me is that the chariot was a combat system a thousand years before anyone managed to get a guy to sit on top of a horse with a weapon. Seems like "sit on horse" would come way before "have horse pull an elaborate machine with multiple guys on board" but nope.
European terrain never really lent itself to charioteers anyhow. The mobility of the armed equestrian, on the other hand,...
cedarwoodron Many things take their dimensions from real life- the 9 inch riser on a stair...
Many things take their dimensions from real life- the 9 inch riser on a stair...
Most of the rises I've run into are 7". However, runs of 9" are not uncommon.
Ed
NittanyLionSeems like "sit on horse" would come way before "have horse pull an elaborate machine with multiple guys on board" but nope.
"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."
The chariot was like a Jeep with a machine gun on it. Think "Rat Patrol". One guy would drive and the other was an archer who would fire arrows. The chariot would drive in a long oval parallel to the line of enemy troops with the archer firing arrows at the masses formation of troops. The chariot could carry hundreds of arrows and its defense was speed.
Ancient troops were three types, infantry, calvary and projectile (archers/slings). In the rock-paper-scissors scheme of things, infantry beat calvary, calvary beat projectile, projectile beat infantry. That's why when David went out to fight Goliath (infantry), he discarded armor and a sword (infantry) and used a sling (projectile).
I remember that at Pompeii they found that the Romans had built elevated sidewalks. At road crossings, there were openings wide enough to let a wagon's wheels pass through. I don't remember how wide they were spaced, but if someone could track it down it might shed light on the subject....
As mentioned, it was the invention of the stirrup that allowed a man to remain stable on the horse and use a weapon. That changed a horse and armed rider into a "weapon system"