If I use the Goldenflame Kit for gravel silos, what alterations are needed?
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Besides the power wash you mention none that I can think of.
I would use the kit as is.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
A lot of people were askin why would you put sand & gravel in silos instead of piles. The answer is simple, land is expensive, property air rights don't cost extra and if the property is on a small patch of land, front end loaders are useless.
Besides, if they had coal silos, why wouldn't they have gravel silos? Even if they were repurposed from coal silos, why couldn't they be power washed?
I'm not asking for argument, but for input.
__________________________________________________________________
Mike Kieran
Port Able Railway
I just do what the majority of the voices in my head vote on.
chutton01But where they repurposed coal silos with a wooden head-house and all, as we already have posted links to images of purpose-build aggregate/sand/cement silos constructed in a fashion similar to coal silos (basically poured-concrete cylinders).
I have no idea..The building was built in 1896 according to the cornerstone..The silos was concrete and was there long before the vault company started in 1970..My limited research at the library showed it was a clay flower pot plant starting in 1950-51.
BRAKIEAfter my railroad career ended I worked for a grave vault company..We stored our sand and gravel for the cement mixer in silos so,yes,the possibility of sand and gravel being stored in silos by small aggregate companies is possible.
NittanyLion But it does boil down to what your objective is with the model in the first place. It seems to be uncommon enough that no one has been able to produce an actual example of someone storing material in that way, which implies that there's a reason it isn't done. That makes it fairly implausible that someone would choose to store material in that manner, so if you're striving for "plausibility (let alone realistic)," you've missed that mark.
But it does boil down to what your objective is with the model in the first place. It seems to be uncommon enough that no one has been able to produce an actual example of someone storing material in that way, which implies that there's a reason it isn't done. That makes it fairly implausible that someone would choose to store material in that manner, so if you're striving for "plausibility (let alone realistic)," you've missed that mark.
After my railroad career ended I worked for a grave vault company..We stored our sand and gravel for the cement mixer in silos so,yes,the possibility of sand and gravel being stored in silos by small aggregate companies is possible.
Hello All,
Just a few more thoughts...
After looking at the picture on the box of the Goldenflame Fuel Co. kit you have, I recalled a photo on pg. 78 of Tony Koesters, The Model Railroader’s Guide To Coal Railroading; Kalmbach Publishing, 2006.
This photo is of a coal facility at Norway, Michigan, in 1980. It shows five silos topped with a rectangular headhouse similar to the kit you have. From the angle of the photo the lift mechanism(s) are not visible and the loading chutes are barely visible. The surrounding overgrowth suggests this facility was abandoned by the time of the photo. That's not to say that this facility could not have been re-purposed as a cement, sand, gravel and aggrigate facility.
Some have suggested that this might not be "realistic." My thoughts are even the most "realistic" or "prototypical" models are just that models. It might not be completely realistic but it is still within the realm of possibility.
I say kitbash away and model the scene that best suits your layout.
Speaking of kitbashing...
I was at a train show yesterday and found an interesting kit. It was labeled: "Kit No. 24 HO Wyoming Coal Mine OR Bulk Loading Plant; Suydam & Co. in corrugated metal."
Upon further inspection I found out that this kit is made of substantial gage corrugated metal and is intended to be assembled by soldering. It even had an instructional primer on soldering metal with practice pieces included.
As I was reading the instructions the second paragraph of the introduction read as follows:
"While the original was obviously a coal mine, there is no earthly reason why it could not be used for any other material which is mined and needs relatively little processing other than perhaps washing and grading before being shipped out in hopper cars, ore cars or gondolas."
At $15.00 I bought it! Not necessarily to build but to use as templates for other projects. I'm now in the process of modifying and transferring this metal kit to styrene to kitbash the loading tipple for my pike.
Hope this helps.
"Uhh...I didn’t know it was 'impossible' I just made it work...sorry"
chutton01They are the former Rinaldi Coal Company silos.The site has attracted the notice of the EPA, but for an underground fuel tank leak, not the silos
I wonder if Rinaldi Coal sold kerosene along with coal or in later years fuel oil? Think I'll try to research that outfit..
NittanyLionIt's adajcent to a wide spot next to the tracks where a construction company stores materials, but its not used by them. Its actually on a different company's ground and definitely abandoned. https://goo.gl/maps/5LDGg At least they keep them painted and not a total eyesore.
https://goo.gl/maps/5LDGg
At least they keep them painted and not a total eyesore.
They are the former Rinaldi Coal Company silos.The site has attracted the notice of the EPA, but for an underground fuel tank leak, not the silos.
NittanyLionAt least they keep them painted and not a total eyesore.
I noticed that..I would like to seen that business back in the day but,I've always had a fascination with old abandon industries..
ALEX WARSHALWait everyone stop fighting for a second, because I think I found the resolution. When I visited Washington, DC I had the opportunity to ride the Metro almost everywhere. On one of my trips in I saw a building very similar to the Golden Flame with a clam shell bucket crane overhead, and was used for coal or sans/aggregate or maybe both. I will post the GPS coordinates once I find it. As a forewarning the building is old and possibly abandoned and would be great to look into the history of the building. -Alex Warshal
I know the place you're talking about.
It's adajcent to a wide spot next to the tracks where a construction company stores materials, but its not used by them. Its actually on a different company's ground and definitely abandoned.
I still can't reply directly to Mike's posts...can anybody else or has he blocked me for some reason? There is no "reply" button to click under his posts.
I think that if you intend to represent a newly built structure designed to hold gravel in the 70s, I think you would have to make several modifications to the goldflame kit to make it look right. In fact, the silos might be the only useable part, in which case PVC would likely be a lot cheaper.
Perhaps I missed it, but is it possible that there were gravel dealers that used similar silo structures during the era that the goldflame kit represents (30s and 40s?) In which case, yes, I would think you could extend the service of that structure into the 70s.
Notice I'm talking gravel. I would think that any sand storage facitily and processing would want to have a covered loading/unloading facility since, as another has mentioned, wet sand is no fun to move.
Only the Medusa cement kit has the covered unloading shed (as well as a covered conveyor), so I don't think the kits (Goldflame or Walthers Aggregate) with the open unloading process could double as sand storage.
- Douglas
My Layout Photos- http://s1293.photobucket.com/user/ajwarshal/library/
RT Trains To the OP - just do what you want. Brakie, maybe you should extend your "research and study" to reading the thread. The OP is talking about a purpose built aggregate plant. Why are you talking about coal. In my years working for the WP and then a railroad contractor, I saw lots of aggregate facilities. None stored sand and gravel in concrete silos. This thread has been a little slice of heaven, but reality seems unpopular. Buh-bye. BRAKIE I know a lot of things by research and study just because they don't jive with your thoughts doesn't make me wrong.I'm not closed minded to what was and may still be in existence- including independent coalers still in operation in some areas including Ohio.. Why not? They still make new coal stoves.
To the OP - just do what you want.
Brakie, maybe you should extend your "research and study" to reading the thread. The OP is talking about a purpose built aggregate plant. Why are you talking about coal.
In my years working for the WP and then a railroad contractor, I saw lots of aggregate facilities. None stored sand and gravel in concrete silos.
This thread has been a little slice of heaven, but reality seems unpopular. Buh-bye.
BRAKIE I know a lot of things by research and study just because they don't jive with your thoughts doesn't make me wrong.I'm not closed minded to what was and may still be in existence- including independent coalers still in operation in some areas including Ohio.. Why not? They still make new coal stoves.
Perhaps you should read my replies before you jump the gun?
I did mention sand and gravel but,that must have went over your head.
I bet if you looked hard enough you would find sand and gravel in concrete silos.After all America is a very large country so,the reality is there.
BRAKIEI know a lot of things by research and study just because they don't jive with your thoughts doesn't make me wrong.I'm not closed minded to what was and may still be in existence- including independent coalers still in operation in some areas including Ohio.. Why not? They still make new coal stoves.
Mike KieranI'm going with silos instead of just piles because in a lot of small cities, space is still at a premium.
I'm going with silos instead of just piles because in a lot of small cities, space is still at a premium.
RT Trains That's just not correct, Brakie. Posting the same inaccurate information over and over doesn't make it true. I've noted this in your threads on another forum. The OP can do whatever he wants, but that doesn't mean it's realistic. BRAKIE You see over the past 100 years such sand and gravel silos may have been the norm and I suspect there are still examples being used today in a small city or perhaps in country town..
That's just not correct, Brakie. Posting the same inaccurate information over and over doesn't make it true. I've noted this in your threads on another forum.
The OP can do whatever he wants, but that doesn't mean it's realistic.
BRAKIE You see over the past 100 years such sand and gravel silos may have been the norm and I suspect there are still examples being used today in a small city or perhaps in country town..
I suppose I wrong by your "expertise"?
My humble apologies.
I know a lot of things by research and study just because they don't jive with your thoughts doesn't make me wrong.I'm not closed minded to what was and may still be in existence- including independent coalers still in operation in some areas including Ohio..
Why not? They still make new coal stoves.
I have to admit that I didn't know where all the discussion about silos came from then I realized that the kit I was mistakenly thinking of when I posted my reply was the O. L. King Coal yard.
https://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/933-3015
This is what I had in mind and it is the one that I turned into a scrap dealer. Once I looked up Golden Flame then it jogged my feeble memory...
I would tend to agree that, at least in my experience, any of the sand & gravel yards I've been to are open bunks with no silos around. Not saying they don't exist but I don't recall ever seeing any.
Have Fun! Ed
For some reason, I'm unable to reply directly to Mike's posts.
Walthers makes a kit marketed as a modern aggregate storage facility. Of course, it uses tooling from several other kits so its accuracy may not be exact, but I assume there is some prototypical basis for it.
http://www.hobbylinc.com/walthers-rail-to-road-aggregate-transfer-kit-ho-scale-model-railroad-building-4036
You could modify the golden flame kit to be something similar.
The question for me is...what's the point of storing aggregate in a silo rather than just piling it on the ground? Maybe its to automate the process as much as possible and to avoid paying somebody to drive a loader?
I did a Google search for "sand & gravel storage" Hoffman Inc. makes reinforced concrete silos for sand and gravel - used by the mining and concrete industries.
I tried to sell my two cents worth, but no one would give me a plug nickel for it.
I don't have a leg to stand on.
BRAKIEYou see over the past 100 years such sand and gravel silos may have been the norm and I suspect there are still examples being used today in a small city or perhaps in country town..
Mike Kieran I guess I could model the silos as gravel silos with the sand & cement silos off layout. I plan on putting a ready mix plant by the silos.
I guess I could model the silos as gravel silos with the sand & cement silos off layout. I plan on putting a ready mix plant by the silos.
That was Oct and Nov 1954. A unique aggregate structure, but not concrete silos and nothing like golden flame. Here's the prototype
http://digitallibrary.usc.edu/utils/ajaxhelper/?CISOROOT=p15799coll65&CISOPTR=13485&action=2&DMSCALE=10&DMWIDTH=512&DMHEIGHT=475&DMX=0&DMY=0&DMTEXT=&DMROTATE=0
But it appears that the OP already has the goldenflame kit and wants to use it no matter what
RT
[ user="tomikawaTT"]Many decades ago there was a construction article in MR for the Consolidated Rock Products Los Nietos (CA) bunker. It wasn't a silo set, but it was remarkably similar to a local Blue Coal distributor in Da Bronx.[/quote]
Mike KieranI meant that they would be built as sand and gravel silos. I'm modeling a late 1970's short line in an urban setting. I'm
It's your layout, so you can do anything you want. But it won't be realistic.
That kind of silo wouldn't be built new for sand or gravel. I've seen lots of aggregate dealers around the US, none looked like goldenflame. For one thing, sand stored like that would need to be dried first, an expense that couldn't be justified. It would also be set up differently to load out.
Slight difference, JJ.
The old coaling stations (SP had one in Tucson clear into the '80s) already had sand tanks and plumbing to store and issue locomotive sand. The main bunkers weren't sand-loaded.
OTOH, there's the old business maxim, If it ain't broke, don't fix it. I could easily imagine a local coal dealer with solidly-built coal silos re-purposing them to store aggregates when the anthracite business faded away. After all, filling a dump truck is pretty much the same whether the load is coal, sand or septic field rock. And that small-bucket lift will work just fine for rock products that aren't mostly carbon.
If the business grew, later bunkers might be added to, but wouldn't necessarily supplant, the old silos.
Many decades ago there was a construction article in MR for the Consolidated Rock Products Los Nietos (CA) bunker. It wasn't a silo set, but it was remarkably similar to a local Blue Coal distributor in Da Bronx.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
Oh...you mean kitbashing to make a sand and gravel facility. I think that wold be a great project!
Thanks for the clarification.
In considering your original post, I remembered a photo on page 72 of The Model Railroader's Guide To Locomotive Servicing Terminals; Marty McGuirk, 2002 Kalnbach Publishing Co. It shows a cement coaling tower with a diesel engine pulling through it with the caption, "Some steam-eara relics lasted well into the diesel era. Large concrete coaling towers were often converted to sanding towers or simply left in place towering over the diesels..."
So re-purposing a coaling tower to a sand facility has been done with the prototype.
I've also seen a cement-silo kit re-purposed to an ammonium-nitrate facility used in coal production.