Hi --
An aunt of my wife came across an old photo showing a steam engine and two passenger cars at Dalton, MN (in Ottertail county, just south of Fergus Falls), probably sometime in the early 1900s. The photo was labeled "No 11 at Dalton, MN". Does anyone have any more information on NP train No 11? This is what the photo looks like - the photo must have been taken from the road overpass, so the train is heading westwards:
Smile, Stein
Stein...
I cannot find the NP connecting to Dalton, closest is Fergus Falls. I do have a map showing Dalton being on the Great Northern Line. Curiously, I can't find a passenger stop at Dalton listed in the Traveler's Railway Guide. Perhaps one from 1905 or so might include it but I don't go that new.
Here is a roster link showing early locomotive stuff
http://www.gngoat.org/roster01.jpg
Perhaps the 11 is not a train number but a loco number.
Sorry I can't be of more help.
Bob
Ooops - embarrassing mistake on my part there - the GN and NP crossed at Fergus Falls, but it was indeed the GN and not the NP that went through Dalton, MN. I found some information from the early 1960s where it was mentioned that a streamlined service (the "Red River" between St. Paul and Fargo) at that time was Train No. 11 on the GN. I presume that at the time the photo was taken, it either was a nameless service (just "train No. 11"), or, as you suggest, perhaps No 11 was the engine number. I looked at the roster you posted - there are two no 11 there - a 4-4-0 built in 1867 for the "St P&P" , with the note that it came to the GN as no 6, and a 0-6-0 built by Baldwin in 1907, which doesn't sound likely for a passenger train.
Any other suggestions for GN No. 11 at Dalton.
Stein
My copy of the June 1893 Official Railway Guide does not list a train No. 11 on either the GN or the NP. Also the only Dalton showing the timetables for the GN is one in Iowa on the line from Wilmar to Souix City, 23 miles for Souix City and 304 miles from Wilmar. It shows served by No. 61 and 62.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
Google maps does show a Dalton MN being about a bit southeast of Fergus Falls. Doesn't appear to currently have railroad service, but there is a trail running thru town that looks like it might have been a "rails to trails" conversion.
wjstix Google maps does show a Dalton MN being about a bit southeast of Fergus Falls. Doesn't appear to currently have railroad service, but there is a trail running thru town that looks like it might have been a "rails to trails" conversion.
Indeed it is. The GN used to run through Dalton, and both the GN and the NP ran through Fergus Falls, a little to the north-west of Dalton.
The GN depot still exists - it has been relocated to the threshing fair grounds slightly to the SE of the old spot, where it serves as the depot of a narrow gauge steam locomotive from France that runs a little loop at the fairgrounds: http://www.flickr.com/photos/23711298@N07/3266720891/ The RR depot was there on Saturday October 10th 1896, when presidential candidate William Jennings Bryan stopped there as one of many stops to speechify that day, on his way from Aberdeen, SD to Saint Paul, MN: http://railroads.unl.edu/topics/bryanTriplog1896.php?trip=3 Smile, Stein
Gidday, Great old photo, but also a bit of a tease in what it doesn't make clear.
Wondered what the Norwegian connection was but it appears that Norwegian settlers may have been instrumental in founding Dalton.
http://books.google.co.nz/books?id=ho23eS5qjNgC&pg=PA422&lpg=PA422&dq=Great+northern+railroad+Dalton+1900&source=bl&ots=j6oF5Y4CFx&sig=aWe3jfmZ8gPqs16lY-rdx5NmkuE&hl=en&sa=X&ei=6OyPT6GXA6iuiAfM_fH0Aw
http://www.jsenterprises.com/ottertail/townships/tumuli.htm
Could the locomotive be one of the sub classes of the Class B 4-4-0??
http://www.gngoat.org/gn_steam_locomotives.htm
Probably just made this "as clear as mud".
Cheers, the Bear.
"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."
The only GN trains listed in the 1893 ORG on the "Washington LIne" through Dalton, MN and Fergus Falls are No.s 1,2,3,4. Trains 7,8,9,10 are over on the line through Wilmar, Morris and Wampton.
dehusman The only GN trains listed in the 1893 ORG on the "Washington LIne" through Dalton, MN and Fergus Falls are No.s 1,2,3,4. Trains 7,8,9,10 are over on the line through Wilmar, Morris and Wampton.
Okay - guess no 11 must have been the engine number. Thank you for checking!
"JaBear" Gidday, Great old photo, but also a bit of a tease in what it doesn't make clear. Wondered what the Norwegian connection was but it appears that Norwegian settlers may have been instrumental in founding Dalton.
"JaBear" Could the locomotive be one of the sub classes of the Class B 4-4-0?? http://www.gngoat.org/gn_steam_locomotives.htm
"JaBear" Wondered what the Norwegian connection was but it appears that Norwegian settlers may have been instrumental in founding Dalton.
Minnesota in general was largely populated by Norwegian and other Scandinavian immigrants during that time. FWIW our pro football team is called the "Vikings"...well, at least until they move to Los Angeles next year.
Gidday Gentlemen.
Stein, Can be surprising what information small local museums contain, good luck and have a pleasant holiday.
Stix, To me one of the unexpected, but pleasant and interesting, aspects of model railroading is the new general information items I learn. "American Football', unless it's the lead up to the Super Bowl, barely rates TV time here. Professional sport is relatively new to New Zealand, while I'm not against players getting paid, the down side seems, to me, that the teams are no longer necessarily loyal to the fans, the sponsors are more important.
Cheers,the Bear.
I'm going to try to do some more research this weekend - we've had relatives visiting so it's been kinda busy. Minnesota Transportation Museum's Jackson St. roundhouse houses the archives of the GN and NP, which were donated to the GN and NP's historical societies ( I believe when Burlington Northern moved it's headquarters from St.Paul MN to Fort Worth Texas) so if I can't find anything in my stuff they might have something.
BTW Bear the Minnesota Historical Society is actually pretty large. Keep in mind Minnesota's population is about 5.3 million people now, with about half of those being here in the Minneapolis - St.Paul "Twin Cities" area.
http://events.mnhs.org/media/Images/Sites/mhc/previews/MN_History_Center_AD.jpg
wjstix BTW Bear the Minnesota Historical Society is actually pretty large. Keep in mind Minnesota's population is about 5.3 million people now, with about half of those being here in the Minneapolis - St.Paul "Twin Cities" area.
Gidday, Living in a country with a population one about 1.5 million less than The State of Minnesota, when I mean local I'm thinking of regions with a population base of 2 to 60+thousand, and the accompanying sized local Historical Society and/or museum. I was thinking more along the lines of "The Otter Tail County Historical Society". I did not wish to add the good people of the "Twin Cities" to the list of people I manage to offend through my lack of diplomacy.
Sometimes I have found that if I ask the right question and am lucky enough to strike the right person at small museums I can get information that, generally to budget constraints, is not yet available at the larger data repositories.
wjstix the Minnesota Historical Society is actually pretty large.
the Minnesota Historical Society is actually pretty large.
Aye, and they have a online collection of pictures that I love. Have a look at http://collections.mnhs.org/visualresources/, and try a couple of searches - e.g. "show only those with digital images", keywords "Great Northern" and years between 1880 and 1930 - they have 675 images just on that subject. There is e.g. a photo from about 1900 showing a Great Northern passenger train with cars in a similar style to the cars in my photo: http://collections.mnhs.org/visualresources/image.cfm?imageid=104892(I try to not do deep links to show pictures from the mnhs, since they explicitly ask that we don't do that unless we are willing to pay for the right to reproduce the image on another web site). Smile, Stein
"JaBear" the down side seems, to me, that the teams are no longer necessarily loyal to the fans, the sponsors are more important.
the down side seems, to me, that the teams are no longer necessarily loyal to the fans, the sponsors are more important.
Its off topic but I'm going to address this:
the teams in a given sport all have the same major sponsors and their minor sports are more often than not local companies or major companies that have a large interest in the city. Teams have never had a loyalty to fans in the first place, per se. Its always been who was their controlling interest since day one. Popular players do often have a loyalty to a fanbase though. When my local football team cut one of its favorite players (he was getting old and his ability had dropped way off), he chose retirement over playing somewhere else. Some players that did leave their favorite teams have gone back to sign one day contracts just so they could retire as a member of that team.
Hi Bear, you're right about smaller historical groups sometimes having a lot of good information. The Iron Range Historical Society's building up in Gilbert Minnesota is only a relatively small building ("shed" might be closer to the truth) but their quarterly newsletter always has great info in it.
BTW regarding sports, the term "professional" normally means "getting paid for doing something" but can also mean doing something really well - "wow, you did a really professional paint job on that Atlas boxcar". In the latter sense, I'm not sure any of our local big-league sports teams really qualify as "professional" anymore....
Stein - Pat Dorin in his book "Great Northern Lines East" says GN trains 11-12 were Twin Cities to Fargo trains. I couldn't find when the train started, but in the 1930's it was given the name "The Alexandrian" (presumably because it stopped at Alexandria MN) . It carried both coaches and a cafe-coach, and ran 'daily except Sundays". 11/12 later became the "Red River" and was one of GN's "pocket streamliners".
Interstingly - one might even say, bizarrely - 11/12 was one of the first GN trains to be dieselized, when steam generator equipped NW-3 road-switchers were assigned to it in 1941. These engines were painted in the green and orange "Empire Builder" scheme...which wasn't applied to the Empire Builder itself until 1947.
Stix --
Thank you!