Just started to look into this - was there a major difference? Just about wet myself when I found that I had bought 2 Pacific Mountain Scale Shop I-12's awhile ago and misplaced them, but I found'em - Thanks Chris
Semantics...just semantics.
I mean I have a couple of the Roundhouse "roundtop" and have a few FVH Wagontops coming in - Was there a major difference? - Now trying to find my B&O freight book..........
The roundhouse models are after the PRR design that was a conventional boxcar with a different roof design. Below the eaves the boxcar is the same as any other boxcar as far as its design and construction. The different roof increased the interior capacity and still kept within the clearance diagrams.
The B&O wagontops were completely different. They were made of stamped metal sections that had an integral side ond roof and were joined at the centerline. Each section was a half arch. the B&O used tha concept to make boxcars, covered hoppers and cabooses.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
Thank you - Now that I have both models in front of me, I can see the difference - Chris
It is not just semantics!
The PRR had "round roof" boxcars. They differ from the "wagon top" cars the B&O built.
A round roof car is just that a boxcar with a round roof added to provide some extra interior clearance.
The wagon tops were unique to the B&O. The built covered hoppers, boxcars and cabooses with this design. The wagon top design has no top seam in its sheet metal running the length of the car on each side at the roof. The round roof cars have a conventional seam there.
As conventional cars age, the seam between the roof and side of the car has a tendency to leak (rain...), which can result in cargo damage. The wagon top design does away with that seam all together, so it can't leak there. Another design benefit was the fact that the design utilized less steel in its contruction as compared to conventional designs.
I do not believe that the B&O actually had any "round roof" cars. The B&O did re-build some boxcars with a unique truncated coffin-lid-like roof (Mansard roof) to add interior clearance, and these 40 foot boxcars were designated M-27f. (Sunshine Models makes a resin kit of this version)
Westerfield, Sunshine and Funaro & Camerlengo make resin kits for wagon top boxcars. The Funaro kit is marketed under some other distributor's names (North Shore, Central Hobby SUpply)
Funaro also did a kit for the wagon top covered hopper. Pacific Mountain Shops did wagon top caboose resin kits.
It's NOT semantics, and it'sNOT a dumb question.
bandoguyjr It is not just semantics! The PRR had "round roof" boxcars. They differ from the "wagon top" cars the B&O built. A round roof car is just that a boxcar with a round roof added to provide some extra interior clearance. The wagon tops were unique to the B&O. The built covered hoppers, boxcars and cabooses with this design. The wagon top design has no top seam in its sheet metal running the length of the car on each side at the roof. The round roof cars have a conventional seam there. As conventional cars age, the seam between the roof and side of the car has a tendency to leak (rain...), which can result in cargo damage. The wagon top design does away with that seam all together, so it can't leak there. Another design benefit was the fact that the design utilized less steel in its contruction as compared to conventional designs. I do not believe that the B&O actually had any "round roof" cars. The B&O did re-build some boxcars with a unique truncated coffin-lid-like roof (Mansard roof) to add interior clearance, and these 40 foot boxcars were designated M-27f. (Sunshine Models makes a resin kit of this version) Westerfield, Sunshine and Funaro & Camerlengo make resin kits for wagon top boxcars. The Funaro kit is marketed under some other distributor's names (North Shore, Central Hobby SUpply) Funaro also did a kit for the wagon top covered hopper. Pacific Mountain Shops did wagon top caboose resin kits. It's NOT semantics, and it'sNOT a dumb question.
Interestingly enough, the wagon top boxcar was neither unique to the B&O, nor were they the originators of the design: a friend showed me an old book on railway engineering innovations, and one of the photos was of a CPR wagon-top boxcar very similar to the B&O car. If I recall correctly (chances of that get slimmer by the day ) the date of the book's printing was sometime within the second decade of the 20th century. It may have been a one-off, but the resemblance was remarkable. I'll contact him for some additional info.
Here's a Pennsy round-roofed boxcar (Bowser):
...and a B&O wagon top (Funaro & Camerlengo):
Wayne
Thanks - In the beginning it was buy all and any B&O,WM,BR&P - after a few years, books , internet browsing, etc.. I would like to be a little more prototypical now ( not 100%, but close )
For anyone interested, that CPR wagontop car was a 40 ton capacity steel car, with 11 ribs (same as the B&O M-53) but only 36' long. The ends were flat (similar to the Pennsy's early X-29s) but had two external vertical hat-section braces. Trucks were archbar and the door, strangely, was wood, similar to that used on the USRA double sheathed boxcars. The book is dated 1916, so the car is likely somewhat earlier. If I remember next time we get together, I'll borrow the book and scan the photo.
Here's one that caught me: some years ago, I was able to pick up a number of Red Caboose X-29 boxcars at a good price ($8.00). These were undecorated kits, so I did a couple as early Pennsy cars with flat ends, while using the two with Dreadnaught ends to represent Erie and B&O cars. I later learned that the B&O's cars used the flat ends. With my luck, I'm guessing that the Erie did likewise.
Were I modelling the B&O, I'd make the effort to correct such a glaring error. Since I'm not, I won't.
doctorwayne Here's one that caught me: some years ago, I was able to pick up a number of Red Caboose X-29 boxcars at a good price ($8.00). These were undecorated kits, so I did a couple as early Pennsy cars with flat ends, while using the two with Dreadnaught ends to represent Erie and B&O cars. I later learned that the B&O's cars used the flat ends. With my luck, I'm guessing that the Erie did likewise. Were I modelling the B&O, I'd make the effort to correct such a glaring error. Since I'm not, I won't. Wayne
I wouldn't have really noticed or would point it out, not with the excetional quality of the rest of the surrounding work.
Modeling B&O- Chessie Bob K. www.ssmrc.org
Thanks for your kind words, bogp40. By the way, I didn't intentionally cut-off the left side of the photo to hide the end - it was merely the only photo of several similar ones which looked half-way decent.
Anyone modelling a specific railroad may strive for higher accuracy (or not), but most casual observers probably assess that work on its quality more than for its accuracy. I model freelance railroads which interchange with real ones, so my freelance cars are 100% accurate right down to the (mostly) plastic bodies and Kadee couplers. The cars and locos of my interchange partners are in some cases quite accurate, and in other instances mere stand-ins. All of the other roads' cars are only as accurate as available information (or my skills or interests) allowed when they were built.
So-called signature cars, such as the wagon-tops, round roof cars, or those of similar ilk almost demand the modeller be at least reasonably accurate, even if the car is the only representative of that road on the layout. Many of the cars (and locos) being offered nowadays are quite accurate to specific prototypes, so if one has the means to afford them, there's little need to worry about accuracy.
The car below is an example of one which I thought at the time to be a good-enough stand-in for its prototype, which, it turns out, is not the car which I modelled. I started with a Train Miniature ARA 40' steel boxcar, a low-roofed car similar to Pennsy's X-29, but with different doors, ends and roofs. Needing some CPR cars, I browsed through the C-D-S lettering catalogue for a suitable candidate (the catalogue shows a line drawing of the lettering on an appropriate carside) and settled on the 1932 ARA steel boxcar - the CPR owned 700 of them. I detailed three TM cars to better simulate the prototype, painted and lettered them and was pleased with the results. Recently, a friend asked about modelling one of CPR's signature cars, the so-called mini-box, an 8'7" inside height boxcar. While Funaro & Camerlengo offers a resin kit for this car, my frugal friend was hoping for a cheaper option, so I suggested the TM cars. He thought that they might not be low enough, so we measured one - it looked pretty darn close. Then it dawned on me that I have a more accurate model of a 1932 ARA car, from Atlas. Upon measuring that car, a more recent release, we found it to be higher than I had initially thought, at 9'4"IH. I had originally wanted to make my three cars into mini-boxes, but with no lettering shown in the catalogue, had opted for the later 1932 car. The distinguishing features of the mini-box are its low roofline, tabbed sidesills, and radial roof. Depending on how many TM cars we can find at the next train show, my three now-too-low "1932" cars may get tabbed sidesills (a simple add-on) and a slight renumbering (one digit per car number) to become mini-boxes. While I like radial roofs, I was unaware that the prototype used them until I found that information listed in the prototype's specifications - it wasn't apparent in numerous photos until I realised that it was there. For that reason, my psuedo mini-boxes will retain their peaked roofs. CPR built 7500 mini-boxes.
The imposter:
bandoguyjr .....The wagon tops were unique to the B&O. The built covered hoppers, boxcars and cabooses with this design. The wagon top design has no top seam in its sheet metal running the length of the car on each side at the roof. The round roof cars have a conventional seam there. As conventional cars age, the seam between the roof and side of the car has a tendency to leak (rain...), which can result in cargo damage. The wagon top design does away with that seam all together, so it can't leak there. Another design benefit was the fact that the design utilized less steel in its construction as compared to conventional designs.....
.....The wagon tops were unique to the B&O. The built covered hoppers, boxcars and cabooses with this design. The wagon top design has no top seam in its sheet metal running the length of the car on each side at the roof. The round roof cars have a conventional seam there.
As conventional cars age, the seam between the roof and side of the car has a tendency to leak (rain...), which can result in cargo damage. The wagon top design does away with that seam all together, so it can't leak there. Another design benefit was the fact that the design utilized less steel in its construction as compared to conventional designs.....
The wagon tops as you describe them were indeed unique to the B&O, with the difference being in the one-piece roof with sides. The CPR car of which I spoke early looks surprisingly similar (or vice versa) but there are seams between the roof and sides. The CPR car is also shorter, at 36', and is also lower and narrower. The book in which the photo was found was published in 1916, while a notation on the car's side appears to read "Patented 1911".
This has been pretty clearly covered by now, but what's one more comparison?
Round top:
http://canadianfreightcargallery.ca/cgi-bin/image.pl?i=ope1023&o=opehttp://canadianfreightcargallery.ca/cgi-bin/image.pl?i=prr79612&o=prr
Wagon top:
http://canadianfreightcargallery.ca/cgi-bin/image.pl?i=bo381593&o=bo
Chris van der Heide
My Algoma Central Railway Modeling Blog