OK, so before I go too far, yes, I realize there were some bridges on which cars and trains ran. So let me narrow my question a bit. Specifically, the premise behind mu question is this. Era is around 1957. Locale is a very rural area, a branchline that runs about 20 miles to serve a mining operation in the North Georgia area. Now the idea is the branchline was built first, in the pre-WWI time. Later came dirt roads, no pavement or concrete out in this stretch of woods, the population and traffic doesn't justify it, but it *is* a public road. Now when they came to a small river, and the RR had already bridged it, they simply laid some boards and gravel so cars and trains could share the bridge, put up a couple warning signs to the effect of "look out for trains", and the RR adopted a rule (well, they already had the rule, just updated it a bit) to approach the bridge at a slow speed, and check to make sure the bridge was clear before proceeding. There is usually one one train (in each direction) per day.
Now the whole point of this was to see if there was a prototype similar to this, anywhere, in about the same era. Yes, I know it's my RR and I can do what I wish, but having a prototype reference would be helpful to do a bit more research. Thanks in advance everyone.
Brad
EMD - Every Model Different
ALCO - Always Leaking Coolant and Oil
CSX - Coal Spilling eXperts
twcenterprises Now when they came to a small river, and the RR had already bridged it, they simply laid some boards and gravel so cars and trains could share the bridge, put up a couple warning signs to the effect of "look out for trains", and the RR adopted a rule (well, they already had the rule, just updated it a bit) to approach the bridge at a slow speed, and check to make sure the bridge was clear before proceeding. There is usually one one train (in each direction) per day.
Now when they came to a small river, and the RR had already bridged it, they simply laid some boards and gravel so cars and trains could share the bridge, put up a couple warning signs to the effect of "look out for trains", and the RR adopted a rule (well, they already had the rule, just updated it a bit) to approach the bridge at a slow speed, and check to make sure the bridge was clear before proceeding. There is usually one one train (in each direction) per day.
Wouldn't happen for the same reason you wouldn't want your county to declare your back yard is a public park because you have picnic table, grill and swing set there.
The railroad bridge is private property and the county just can't put boards across it..
Also a railroad bridge doesn't have the supports required for a road, it would have to be purposely built or modified.
Now the whole point of this was to see if there was a prototype similar to this, anywhere, in about the same era.
Here what would have or could have happened. The railroad needs to upgrade the rickety old bridge build to handle 20 ton coal hoppers, since the new engines and 70 ton hoppers are becoming more common. The county approaches the railroad with a deal. They form a separate bridge company to build a new bridge which will be a toll bridge, the railroad and the county will split the proceeds.
Or.....
The railroad needs to upgrade the rickety old bridge build to handle 20 ton coal hoppers, since the new engines and 70 ton hoppers are becoming more common. The county approaches the railroad with a deal. The county will contribute 50% of the cost of the new bridge if the railroad lets the county put a road across.
Either could have happened in the 1930's (somehow tying in the a WPA project) or during WW2 to increase coal traffic or access to some training base.
Hope this gives you some ideas.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
Here is a photo of such a bridge,
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=233490
The line is the Kingaroy line and has just been closed but the cost of upkeep will still be with the govement as they will have to maintain the road which uses the same bridge.
RAYMOND T
Thank You.
A current day example is the addition of a road in the Alaska RR tunnel to Whittier. Until the road was added, Whittier could only be accessed by sea or rail. Whittier was built as an ice-free, relatively safe from enemy attack, port that could be used to ship coal and other supplies to interior Alaska during WW2. The road was added to the tunnel during the past decade, after considerable consideration of how to make sure there would be no collisions. I left Alaska before the road was completed, so I don't know the operational details. I believe a toll is charged for the road use. It will/did have the effect of opening up Whittier and Prince William Sound to Anchorage residents for boating and marine activities.
Fred W
http://www.travelblog.org/Photos/962185
Here's one on ebay by Tyco
http://cgi.ebay.com/Steel-HO-slot-car-train-4-lane-bridge-Aurora-Tyco-/180444855251
Springfield PA
Granted, half a world away - but exactly what you had in mind.
When the Kiso Forest Railway was built out of Agematsu, Nagano-ken, Japan, it left town by way of a through truss across the Kiso River. Early photos show a pure railroad bridge, with only a plank walkway between the guard rails.
By the time I visited the area in 1964, the bridge had been fitted with a solid timber deck, and was in regular use by rubber-wheel and pedestrian traffic, as well as by a fair number of trains carrying everything from logs to school kids.
Rail operations ended in 1975. The bridge is still in place, now used solely as a road bridge.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
I ran into a bridge like this quite by accident in 1969 while I was in the U. S. A. F. I had taken my roommate to the St. Louis airport so he could fly home for Christmas. I got lost going back to the base and stumbled across this bridge. The bridge ran from the St. Louis side of the Mississippi River to the East St. Louis side. It had a wooden deck with single set of rails running down the center of the bridge deck. I don't recall any warning signals that there might be a train on the bridge and no signs for vehicle traffic to stay off. It was wide enough for two lanes of traffic, but the train tracks were centered on the bridge centerline. I doubt that there was room enough for a car and the train at the same time. I thought it was a pretty dangerous situation as you could not see the other end of the bridge due to the arch in it. I gingerly crossed it and ended up in E. St. Louis. Man, what a rough looking town. I am guessing that this bridge is long gone now. I am guessing that it has been replaced the current Eads Bridge that carries the Metrolink tracks and Washington Ave. over the river to River Park Dr. in E. St. Louis. The Eads bridge has the tracks running between the traffic lanes, so it does not fit your situation.
Jim - Preserving the history of the NKP Cloverleaf first subdivision.
The lift bridge crossing east-west over Mare Island Strait at Vallejo California is two-lane, single-track. The track enters from the east on the north side, then crosses near the end of the west end to exit on the south side of the bridge, so the tracks eventually cross both lanes of the road. The California Northern operates on this former Southern Pacific Railroad industrial track. Highway users have to share the bridge with trains, tug boats, ships, and sailboats.
I see Kootenay Central has already offered the example at East Coulee. Similar situations did occur elsewhere at a major river crossing. The smaller the bridge, the more likely that the road authority would just build their own bridge, and the ones I am aware of were multi-span truss bridges. On the other hand, within an industrial plant property which owns both the access roads and rail facilities there is a lot more flexibility.
A more common variation of the shared road and rail bridge was separated corridors. I have seen the road lanes above the railroad, below the railroad, or on the outside of the truss beside the tracks. In all cases it was a truss bridge. The mammoth Quebec Bridge has everything within the trusses with the railroad in the median. Incorporating both a rail corridor and separate road lanes makes a bridge more expensive but because many costs are shared it is cheaper for both.
If adding road lanes to an existing railroad bridge, planking the tracks is the only solution. The extra weight and strains imposed by a separate roadway had to be allowed for in the initial design.
John
IIRC, the Sprinfield Terminal, a shortline that had formerly been an interurban in New England had a large bridge over the Connecticut River that was also used by motor traffic but only rail or motor traffic one at a time. IIRC, The thru truss bridge was paved over with the tracks in the pavement. Yes, this was the same railroad owned by Guilford Industries that Guilford used to break the union on the Boston & Maine. The bridge thing may have lasted into the early 70s.
Here in New Zealand we had several road/rail bridges. This one was recently replaced after 120 years service;
http://www.flickr.com/photos/29564546@N07/2854658977/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Arahura_River_bridge.jpg
This is another road/rail bridge that was originally a rail only bridge but was recently modified for road traffic;
http://www.frankship.com/030Dj_Hindon.jpg
Bill
Thanks for the replies everyone. Looks like this was a bit more common than I thought. Anyway, yeah, the premise was that the bridge was at once rail only, and planked over to allow vehicle traffic. Probably some kind of county/RR 50/50 cost split arrangement. I see most photos were of truss bridges, but I was planning on a covered bridge (Which, I know, were fairly rare in the south, but not unheard of, and besides, covered bridges just plain look cool). So now I have plenty of references to work from.
Hi, Brad.
99.44% of covered bridges ARE truss bridges - wooden trusses, 'housed in' to extend the life of the structural timbers in rainy climates.
The other 0.66% are steel trusses, housed in for purely cosmetic reasons.
And then there is the rather recent phenomenon of putting wind walls on bridges where the local geography produces crosswinds that can blow rolling stock (especially doublestacks) off the rails.
The Milwaukee Road between Wausau and Stevens Point, Wisconsin had a bridge across the Wisconsin River which was shared with a highway. I used it once during the early 60's when highway 51 was detoured over it. The highway portion was single lane, next to the track, and as I recall, may have been controlled by lights at each end.
twcenterprises Era is around 1957. Locale is a very rural area, a branchline that runs about 20 miles to serve a mining operation in the North Georgia area. Now the idea is the branchline was built first, in the pre-WWI time. Later came dirt roads, no pavement or concrete out in this stretch of woods, the population and traffic doesn't justify it, but it *is* a public road. Now when they came to a small river, and the RR had already bridged it, they simply laid some boards and gravel so cars and trains could share the bridge, put up a couple warning signs to the effect of "look out for trains", and the RR adopted a rule (well, they already had the rule, just updated it a bit) to approach the bridge at a slow speed, and check to make sure the bridge was clear before proceeding. There is usually one one train (in each direction) per day. Now the whole point of this was to see if there was a prototype similar to this, anywhere, in about the same era. Yes, I know it's my RR and I can do what I wish, but having a prototype reference would be helpful to do a bit more research. Thanks in advance everyone.
That's pretty much exactly the situation at Little Current, Ontario. The old railway swing bridge at Little Current is the only land connection to Manitoulin Island, the largest island in the Great Lakes. The only other connection to the island is by ferry to the opposite end.
The railway bridge was built first, and for a while rail and road traffic shared the bridge. Today the railway is abandoned and only cars use the bridge.
http://www.magma.ca/~morcomp/lcswing2.html
Chris van der Heide
My Algoma Central Railway Modeling Blog
Google Maps - Mare Island Causeway, Vallejo, CA
Modern Lift Bridge, 2 railroad tracks - 1 out of service, 1 goes to Mare Island Naval Complex, shared with 2 lanes of road traffic. This bridge replaced a narrow ship channel draw bridge. Photos show the old bridge in place in the 1970s.
City of Vallejo - Bridge Info Page
The rail line is owned by one of the developers on Mare Island, and the trains are being run by San Francisco Bay Railroad-Mare Island. The City of Vallejo owns the rail line between the a rail junction known as the Flosden stop and the city side of the causeway. Mare Island developer Lennar Mare Island owns the recently dormant rail across the water. The only customer at the moment is Alstom - they have a contract to refurbish 66 Amtrak Capitol Corridor cars.
Most of the facility is closed (decommissioned in 1996) or closing, many of the tracks on the island have been pulled up, or the warehouses they served have been demolished. The complex is being redeveloped, like many old Military sites.
Quite an interesting place. First US Naval Shipyard built on the west coast.
Gil, known as Bill somedays ...
Where ever you go, there you are !
Brad,
I know of such a situation not all that far from the area you are modeling. The Meridian & Bigbee Railroad runs east out of Meridian, Mississippi to a connection with CSXT near Montgomery, Alabama. Where that line crossed the Tombigbee River just west of Myrtlewood, Alabama highway 114 crossed the river on the railroad bridge. The roadway surface was boards even with the tops of the rails and the railroad track went down the center. On either side of the bridge there were traffic lights on the highway that stopped road traffic when a train started across the bridge. I drove over it about twenty years ago. The state has since built a new highway bridge next to the railroad bridge and I believe the highway surface has been removed. If you search for Myrtlewood, Alabama on Mapquest and follow the railroad west a short distance you can see the bridges.
Charlie