Hello. I've heard that the standard amount of time allowable for a crew to work without over time was 16 hours back in the steam and early diesel era. When was this changed to the current 12 hour standard used today?
Freelancer with an interest in N&W, SCL, and other 70s railroads
Mid 1970's it transitioned from 16 to 14 to 12 hours.
If your era operates link an pin couplers, there are no hours of service.
If your era can operate Amtrak or Conrail equipment, the hours of service will be 12 hours.
Otherwise 16.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
When I was braking on the PRR in '66 we was allowed 12 hours from the time we signed in.
In other words if I signed in at 2 AM and my train didn't depart till 4 AM I would go dead on the "law" at 2pm.
Yes, a lot of times you was "called" for (say) 4:00 AM and for various reasons could be still waiting at 7:00AM for your train.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
As I understand the rule/law, it's not that you get overtime as you go "dead"...that is, after 12 hours, you're no longer allowed to operate a train until after a mandatory rest period (8 hours IIRC?). In some cases, a crew will "die" on the mainline and will have to stop the train where they are so the trailroad can bring out a new crew by car/van to relieve them.
Interestingly there were laws regulating how long livestock could be kept in stock cars before being taken out for food and water before there were laws about how long a train crew could work before getting a rest. In the 19th century it wasn't uncommon in a rush period for an engineer to work a couple of days straight...sometimes ending with him basically passing out in the cab leading to a potential disaster.
wjstixAs I understand the rule/law, it's not that you get overtime as you go "dead"...that is, after 12 hours, you're no longer allowed to operate a train until after a mandatory rest period (8 hours IIRC?).
A train crew may be on duty for up to 12 hours. Prior to this year, if they worked for 11 hrs 59 min or less they would be considered rested after an off duty period of 8 continuous hours. If a crew was called on duty at 1:00 pm and worked to 12:59 am, then tied up, they would be considered fully rested again at 7:59 am.
If they worked for a full 12 hrs, they would be considered rested after an off duty period of 10 continuous hours. If a crew was called on duty at 1:00 pm and worked to 1:00 am, then tied up, they would be considered fully rested again at 10:00 am.
If a crew on duty was told to tie up for rest and rested less than 4 hours, the off duty time would be counted against their total time on duty. So if the crew was on duty at 1:00pm, worked until 5:00 pm, then were told to tie up for rest and were called back on duty at 8:00pm, the 3 hrs they were tied up would count against their total time on duty and they would only have 5 hrs left to work, until 1:00 am.
If a crew on duty was told to tie up for rest and rested more than 4 hours, the off duty time would be counted against their total time on duty. So if the crew was on duty at 1:00pm, worked until 5:00 pm, then were told to tie up for rest and were called back on duty at 10:00pm, the 5 hrs they were tied up would not count against their total time on duty and they would have 8 hrs left to work, until 6:00 am. This was commonly done with commuter train crews so they could work both rush hours. teh law requires that they be tied up a a location that has facilities where they can sleep.
The hours of service for people who create or copy mandatory directives is 12 hours for locations where there is one shift on duty and 9 hours for locations where there are more than one shift on duty. So a dispatcher or control operator or train order operator where they office is only open for one shift a day, can work up to 12 hours in 24. At offices where there are 2 or 3 shifts on duty they can only work 9 hours.
This year the law was changed to require 10 hours off for everybody and the time off must be "undisturbed" Under the old laws, if the crew contract requires a 2 hour call (the crew is notified 2 hrs before they are supposed to report), then a crew could tie up at 1:00am and at 6:00am they would be called to report back for duty at 8:00am, on their rest. Under the current law, the crew cannot be called until they are fully rested. So if they tie up at 1:00am, they would be rested at 10:00am for 12:01 pm call. If the trainmaster calls them at 8:00am to find out if they spotted the car at the feed mill, that interrupts their rest and resets the clock. They would now be rested 10 hours later at 6:00 pm for an 8:00pm call.
In addition the new law restricts the number of consecutive days the crews can work and the total number of hours the crews can work in a month. Prior to that there was no limit. If a switchman wanted to bid on a 7 day a week job and work 365 days a year, they could. Not now, the railroad is required to give 2 off days after 6 consecutive days working..
Dave's summery of the current HOS is pretty good...a couple of other points...
Nick
Take a Ride on the Reading with the: Reading Company Technical & Historical Society http://www.readingrailroad.org/
perhaps somebody can refresh my memory. just when did the 16 hour law change? i thought it went to 14 for a short while and then to 12 but i can't remember the exact dates.
i bring this up because i remember working a transfer job out of E St Louis right after the PC merger and it seems like we were always fudging a little and showing 15;59 on our time slips so we did not have to lay down for 10 hours even though we violated quite often. the whole crew was living on black coffee and marlboros. this went on for at least 3 or 4 weeks. we needed an accountant to keep up with the overtime, arbitraries, engine changes, air pay, etc. a couple of us bought new cars. we could never get our regular work done because the dispatcher kept hijacking us to play rescue squad and go get a westbound somewhere that was dead on the law. then we were lucky to get it delivered to Madison before the hogs got us too. i was getting most of my rest in the back seat of a carryall.
at this same time, a lot of guys would double over on a yard job now and then so we had to be good for 16 hours. this had to be back in 68 or 69. my old memory escapes me.
grizlump
Griz..I looked it up (didn't start on PC 'til '74)...http://ftp.resource.org/courts.gov/c/F2/975/975.F2d.1421.90-16741.91-36061.91-35911.html ...more tedious info than necessary...basically, "45 U.S.C. § 61(b)(3). The 1969 amendments also reduced the maximum shift to twelve hours. 45 U.S.C. § 62(a)(1)"... Found only this reference to a 14 hour limit, which may be the source of the "14 Hour" phrase: "Locomotive engineers can technically operate a train up to 432 hours per month,which equates to more than 14 hours a day each of those 30 days." ... does this sound right to you, Brakie ? (Seniority and experience #1) Bob C.
the current 12 hour rule went into effect 16 JULY 2009.
chooch_42 Griz..I looked it up (didn't start on PC 'til '74)...http://ftp.resource.org/courts.gov/c/F2/975/975.F2d.1421.90-16741.91-36061.91-35911.html ...more tedious info than necessary...basically, "45 U.S.C. § 61(b)(3). The 1969 amendments also reduced the maximum shift to twelve hours. 45 U.S.C. § 62(a)(1)"... Found only this reference to a 14 hour limit, which may be the source of the "14 Hour" phrase: "Locomotive engineers can technically operate a train up to 432 hours per month,which equates to more than 14 hours a day each of those 30 days." ... does this sound right to you, Brakie ? (Seniority and experience #1) Bob C.
We could work 7 days a week but,was restricted to 12 HOS.Then we had to "rest" 8 before we could be called..However,one could expect a call in 6 hours advising him of the time to report in..Indeed we lived on coffee, Marlboros,Railroad YMCA or canned food .Of course those lucky ones on a assign job may get to rest 12 hours and in some cases be off the weekends because their train was a Monday-Friday local..
Also note under the new law a crew member can take a short nap while waiting in a siding as long as one member stays awake and alert.
As a side note I recall working 7 days a week for 6 weeks straight before I "marked" off which sent me to the bottom of the list which in turn resulted in extra time off before being called..The longest was 36 hours off including my "marked" day off..Of course one looses money by marking off and let's face the truth after the excitement wore off it was all about money..I did find one could become greedy with the amount of money one could make by working 7 days a week...I did build up a nice nest egg and paid cash for a brand new '67 Ford Mustang.You see I worked every day and seldom marked off..Of course by the time I was laid off from the PC I was burnt out and needed rest...I would repeat this foolishness when I went to work on the C&O/Chessie in '78.
yeah, and did you ever notice how everybody on the engine, in the yard office, or wherever they may have been all started nodding off just before dawn. it didn't matter how much rest they had before coming to work. even the 3rd trick regulars looked like a bunch of bobble heads around that time of the morning. nights are made for sleeping. i worked 3rd trick for some years and just about the time everyone was going to work, i was stopping off at an early hours bar for a shot and a beer. i even got set upon by a whole herd of tuba players (Salvation Army) one moring coming out of the tavern at 8:00 am. they figured i had a serious drinking problem and needed their guidance and prayers.