Dave,
North American locomotives don't have alpha prefixes, but Japanese locomotives do - and in Roman characters, no less. Steam used a single letter, corresponding to the number of drive axles. Non-steam prefixes that with a D for diesel or E for electric. The first two numeric digits specified the speed range and specific class, then the locos within that class were numbered sequentially starting with the third digit. yes, D511104 was the 1104th 2-8-2 completed to that particular design - and not the last.
For many years, 'AT&SF' was lettered on the cab side in small print, and the number was painted in the center of the tender side in characters a yard high. Toward the end of the steam era, 'SANTA FE' was lettered near the top of the bunker in block letters about half the size of the loco number.
Some railroads (N&W, UP, ATSF...) used numbers in 'blocks' for classes of locomotives. Others scrambled numbers with wild abandon. I had one friend who said (facetiously) that the steam-era PRR kept all their unassigned numbers in a fishbowl, and just grabbed one at random when Altoona finished building a new locomotive. Numbers from scrapped or otherwise 'retired' locos went back into the fishbowl...
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
faraway An extreme example that confused me so much I did ask a similar question some month ago is the Indiana Railroad. When the Indiana railroad has been founded they were very short on budget. They bought some used CF-7 from AT&AF. They did not even put a drop of paint on those units. They ran in full AT&SF colors and their old AT&SF road numbers. No patches, no nothing.
An extreme example that confused me so much I did ask a similar question some month ago is the Indiana Railroad.
When the Indiana railroad has been founded they were very short on budget. They bought some used CF-7 from AT&AF. They did not even put a drop of paint on those units. They ran in full AT&SF colors and their old AT&SF road numbers. No patches, no nothing.
Actually IRR did repaint and renumbered 2 of their CF7s #200 and 201 .
http://inrd.gotdns.com/inrd200b.jpg
http://inrd.gotdns.com/inrd201.jpg
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
If you were to look really closely, there probably was a small stencil showing the owning railroad's reporting marks. They might only be an inch or two high, but legally that is what shows who owns the engine. The paintscheme and big railroad name etc. is just window dressing. If say BNSF bought a used UP engine, they might leave it as is but add a small "BNSF" stencil indicating who owned it now. Eventually they'd probably do more, but that would be enough to allow them to run it on trains.
The current Classic Trains points out that there was a situation of two railroads that were interlocked and often leased engines back and forth who set up a system where on one railroad the engine's numbers started with an odd number, and the other railroad's all started with even numbers. That way, they didn't have to worry about confusion in train orders etc. of having two engines with the same road number out on different trains. Other than a rare situation like that, railroads just numbered engines however they pleased.
Reinhard
Purely for the RR's use. They can change the numbers at will. Pre-computer days railroads even had cars and engines with the same number (engine ABC 1234 and boxcar ABC 1234). Each railroad sets its own numbers so it doesn't matter if they repeat numbers.
Same for rolling stock.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
Ken,
The railroad can 'number' their engine anything they want. However, the is a FRA rule that mandates that the engine number must be on the side of the engine. Here is part of the rule from the Utah Rails web site. That site has lots of information:
http://cs.trains.com/trccs/forums/AddPost.aspx?ReplyToPostID=1951046&Quote=False
Federal Railroad Administration Rules
49 CFR = Code of Federal Regulations, Title 49, Transportation (Department of Transportation). Chapter II concerns the Federal Railroad Administration.)
Part 229, Railroad Locomotive Safety Standards.
Part 231, Railroad Safety Appliance Standards
The letter 'F' shall be legibly shown on each side of every locomotive near the end which for identification purposes will be known as the front end. (49 CFR 229.11, paragraph a)
The locomotive number shall be displayed in clearly legible numbers on each side of each locomotive. (49 CFR 229.11, paragraph b)
(Note that there is no mention of requiring a railroad name to be shown, just the number.)
Jim
Modeling BNSF and Milwaukee Road in SW Wisconsin
The railroads assign locomotive and car numbers in disregard of other railroads. Also, it is not unusual that a railroad reuse numbers of retired equipment, so a particular railroad might have had two or more locomotives or cars with the same numbers, but not at the same time.
Builder-assigned numbers would be unique.
Railroads use both the owner's abbreviation and loco/car number for tracking individuals.
Mark
cudaken OK, now I know and again, the post was moved with out me knowing?
OK, now I know and again, the post was moved with out me knowing?
I usually receive an e mail when I put a post in the wrong place... It seems that the mods are trying to sort the material out a bit more effectively - which is fine by me... I just don't always know which place to put the thread in when I start... I think that sometiomes I'm trying to ask an open/general question and they take it as more specific and about prototype and other times it happens the other way round.
I guess that we're just not being bad enough to keep them busy sorting us out for other reasons
I do appreciate the work they do though... and the time they put into it.
Most larger RR number their locos in a 4digit format which gives them quite a bunch of numbers to use. There are times though that they run out of numbers. In this case they can add a suffix letter (like the UP xxxxY numbers for yard engines. I recently saw something (Southern I think) that had an F suffix. I don't recall seeing any prefixes to loco numbers...
Numbers get recycled and/or allocated to groups and/or types of locos by a lot of RR. I'm not that up on this but you will often find that a RR will give all its GP35s (for example) numbers withion a group and all its SD45s numbers in another group.
Another variation is that each purchase gets numbered in a group. If the RR buys say ten GP40s they may get a number run. Sometimes a later purchase of GP40s will get the next set of consecutive numbers but other times any purchase in between, maybe a bunch of GEs, will get those numbers. Then the later GP40s will get a later number run. Different roads have different ideas. I'm pretty sure that they change their minds from time to time as well.
Just to keep us confused some roads will allocate a number series to a group of locos / purchase / type of loco and later change their mind... they will then renumber surviving members to another set of numbers or even random numbers to free up the numbers they want. The released numbers will then get used on a bunch of new locos. An example would be for the 60xx series to have been in use on say SD9s and then the company to have started to order SD60s and want to make a fuss about the new locos... any remaining SD9s would tend to get renumbered so that the whole number run would be available to the new locos.
When roads merge or are taken over the can be duplicatioons of numbers. This can be why patch jobs happen in a hurry.
Something that seems to have happened more with steam and small / shortlines is that numbers got re-used when an old loco was scrapped. This can mean that a number, say 16, can appear on totally different locos of the same road... the key is usually in the date. The later loco gets refered to as "second 16" but just has 16 on the side.
There's probably a whole bunch of other variations.
Numbers apply on their home roads for accounting and maintenance purposes... it's like a truck may have its licence number plus a company number. There are also makers numbers, frame numbers and much more but you wouldn't see these unless you knew where to look and they'd be too small to see or bother about on a model.
Especially in steam days a lot of loco parts, like coupling rods and wheels, had a common number, often part of the frame number, punched onto them to help the shop staff keep track of what bits belonged where... a bit like working on two or more cars in your garage you want to put the right bits back with the right body.
Hope this helps.
I hate Rust
The numbers are just for the railroad usage Ken, a Big Boy on the UP could have the same number as a 2-8-2 on the Santa Fe for example. Each railroad had their own specific numbering system, sometimes it made sense and sometimes it made no sense.
Ken, present day example, and I looked these up before I posted this, UP has a loco (SD70ACe) numbered 4141 and BNSF has a loco (Dash 9-44CW) numbered 4141.
Dr. Frankendiesel aka Scott Running BearSpace Mouse for president!15 year veteran fire fighterCollector of Apple //e'sRunning Bear EnterprisesHistory Channel Club life member.beatus homo qui invenit sapientiam
Is the engine number just for the rail road to keep track of there engines or is it a Federal thing so they can keep track of the engines like license plates?
If it is just for the rail roads records, could the number over lap? UP used 4021 for a Big Boy, could Santa Fe all so have a 4021 number engine? Same question on rolling stock questions.
Thanks for the coming answers.
Ken, wondering again.