i got a p/m from a forum member asking why i made a reference to flat cars being the most dangerous cars on the railroad. he thought tank cars were worse.
i guess i should have specified empty flat cars. the reason being you can't see them in the dark.
once upon a time i was too lazy to walk 50 or so car lengths so i asked the yard crew to kick a caboose down a clear track with me on it and told them i would stop it with the handbrake when i got close to the yard office. well, for what ever reason the "clear" track had a bunch of empty TTX flats sitting in it on the other end. i was standing out on the deck trying to light a cigarette and when i looked up those flat cars suddenly appeared out of the dark and fog about 2 car lengths away. having no time to try the hand brake, i just bailed off and hit the ground running. danged caboose jumped straight up in the air and the impact popped most of the windows out of it. tore the oil stove loose too.
we tried to tell the boss it was like that when it came in on the train but i don't think he believed us. one great thing about the railroad was you can do thousands of dollars worth of damage and get away with it.
grizlump
griz,I am told if a crew tried any of our old tricks(read rule bending) today they'll be fired..Those old line conductors and brakemen knew what rules they could bend and get by with and those they couldn't.
Years ago I had a hotshot modeler watch me switch cars at the club once during a open house and he commence telling me what I was doing wrong and how it was "prototypically" done.I allowed him to flap his bean hopper for awhile before I said I had work as a brakeman for 9 1/2 years..A heads up crew knows what rules can be bent and the ones that can't..And you are correct.A caboose can't be hump but,there's no rules saying you can't kick it either-earlier I had used delayed uncoupling and kicked a caboose out of the way-he just stood there looking at me..
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
Empty flats can be an issue at a grade crossing too. There have been incidents of someone driving their car into a moving train because a string of boxcars were followed by a number of empty flats, and the driver didn't see the flats and assumed the track was clear.
I'll give you another example of the dangers of flat cars... working on/around multiple main tracks (getting ready for the MoW to take the line) you can see a freight approaching on any of the tracks beyond the one immediately in front of you - then a short train comes by you on the closest track... You see or hear the front end of the freight go by further over... there is a temptation to start to cross behind the shorty... but you'd better make a really good check that the whole of the freight has gone past. If it has a string of flats, IM wells or spine cars on the back they are near as anything invisible in a lot of dark conditions,
Some of the worst "neighbours" [street] lighting for making dark/weathered cars vanish is the yellow sodium kind. Add rain to this and the most you will clearly see of a lot of "flats" is the shine on the wheel treads. That goes past you really close up in the dark and you will really start to pay attention... if you get a second chance.
Strangely this is somethiong that is a regular/frequent "near miss" and it scares the heeby jeebies out of people but I've not known of anyone being hit. I suspect that it happens to all of us once and that once is so scarey that we learn the lesson.
Something else... an empty "flat" can roll almost silently. Even just one car [auto] going by will mask the sound.
I teach the kids to stand still at track side and not cross until they have seen the FRED on both the short train and the freight. If they haven't seen the FRED they don't cross. Sometimes a kid will get impatient... quite often that's when the last car will roll by with maybe a flat spot or just one 20' container to make the point. I never get argued with again when that happens.
I had a friend in the middle of Texas whos lived right by the grade crossing. He told me that people driving slap into the side of 89' flats was a real problem.
Looked at the other way,,, Tank cars carry potentially more dangerous loads - and the fumes can be dangerous when the cars are empty... but you could say that a boxcar full of munitions is more dangerous... at leats you can see and usually hear the things.
larry spoke about bending the rules. my experience was that rules often existed primarily so the blame could be put on somebody when something went wrong. as i said before, once you affix blame, the problem is considered solved.
did you ever notice that when things got really screwed up a bunch of officials would often show up and start outlining short cuts for everybody to take?
if you doubt this, just read some of the DOT railway accident reports on their web site. in the event of a major screw up, blame the dead guy.
how does this relate to model railroading? well, rules can make operation more interesting. for instance, we never allow switching operations while holding on to a caboose. all tank cars are considered dangerous and must have 5 cars of cover. open top loads are not allowed next to open loads, engines or cabs and can not run in high speed manifest trains. all stock must be handled next to the engine. excessive dimension loads are moved in local freight trains only and wide loads are not allowed to pass one another on the main line.
griz wrote:for instance, we never allow switching operations while holding on to a caboose.
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Oh my you mean all those times we switch with a caboose coupled to the engine to save time was agin the rules?
Actually we did that quite often on the PRR/PC and later on the Chessie (C&O) it just saved time and unnecessary work..
we did the same thing in real life. with pool cabs who could complain? those old PRR "cabin cars" could be used for wrecking balls without hurting them.
for model operating sessions the rule about cabs developed due the fact that we try to run so many trains we have an artificial shortage of cabeese. especially the steel road cabs so getting them to the cab track promptly is a necessity. the wooden transfer cabs are too fragile to switch with (play like) so they come off right away too.
Griz wrote:the wooden transfer cabs are too fragile to switch with
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Yup I seen the aftermath of a switching accident involving a N6B cabin..Wasn't a pretty ending for a nice looking cabin car-half of it was turned into kindling wood....I was 8 years old when I saw that cabin..The memory has never left my mind.
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Just a small note of appreciation for sharing these stories with us. I could listen to this kind of stuff all day :-)
Slowly building a layout since 2007!
then pm me and i will tell you about the gondola load of manure.
grizlump9 then pm me and i will tell you about the gondola load of manure. grizlump
Haulin' a pile of crap. Sorry, couldn't resist.
Will
wholeman grizlump9 then pm me and i will tell you about the gondola load of manure. grizlump Haulin' a pile of crap. Sorry, couldn't resist.
Back in the '50s that was quite common..
i think i mentioned this a while back but here goes.
back in the late 60's and early 70's we used to get an occasional gondola loaded with manure out of National Stock Yards as E St Louis. it went to a mushroom farm in western Pennsylvania. (like they have a shortage of it up there)
it contained a lot of straw which was used for bedding. when ever we got a road conductor that was a pain, and there were no shortage of them, we would try to cut the load of manure in a couple of cars ahead of the caboose (cabin car to you PRR types) that way he wouldn't know it was there until the train got out of the yard and picked up a bit of speed. then the contaminated straw and God knows what else would start blowing in through the open windows on his caboose. they would usually start hollering on the radio about the time they got past Caseyville.
if it had happened to me, i would have stopped the train for inspection, thrown a lighted fussee in an open journal box and set it out as a bad order but they never thought of that.
yeah, stuff hanging off cars could get you. worst injury i ever received was from a metal band that was part of an old grain door hanging out of an empty box car.
caught me from behind and ran up my back and across my shoulder. cut through my t-shirt like a razor blade. i didn't even know how bad i was hurt untill i got back on the engine and sat down in a pool of blood.
i think they used two boxes of butterfly bandages to close it back up. at least i got to go to St. Mary's hospital in E St Louis where they were experts on gunshot and knife wounds 40 years ago and the scar still itches. i got 3 days off with full pay. didn't think about getting a lawyer. missed my shot.
Thank You.
An unloaded, runaway flat car once hit an SP cabforward locomotive on the Modoc Line. The car climbed up the locomotive and smashed the cab, killing both fireman and engineer. Haven't heard of any other accidental crew deaths on cabforwards.
Mark
I was eyeballing the flats today in the yard. Now we have reflective stripes on the ends ( how long they will last?) Some scary stuff!
Griz I used to do a lot of banding with both wire and steel strap and all I can say is ouch! That strap stuff can be sharper than most ginsu knives! Sparks at night still applies,tinkle tinkle clink clank as well means a chain or something is bouncing along.
We are getting a lot of pipe on 89 foot cars. HUGE pipe thats banded togther and tied to the car with 4 inch straps.Well doing a roll by the other night I hear snaping like a bull whip and as the car rolls by there is 4 foot of the strap hanging out just fluttering in the wind.Told the outbound but if they took care of it I dont know. I always try to tell the kids to stay back when rolling a train by because of this and stories like Griz's.
Yes we are on time but this is yesterdays train