prototype turntable

[rob.m]

Can anyone tell me if there is a prototype for the atlas N scale turntable where the whole deck moves and has no pit.I have one and i think it would look good weatherd and detailed. I like the other type to but i need to many things to get my layout up and running to pay that kind of money just to change turntables when i like the one i have just as well. thank you for any help or tips. 

 

 

[7j43k]

I can't imagine this is info that you'll consider useful, but the turntable inside the roundhouse at the B&O Museum is that way.

As far as outdoors, nothing comes to mind. A good reason to have the pit decked over in the out of doors is to keep the pit clear, so maybe someplace that had LOTS of snow would have had one. But in those places, if you've also got a roundhouse, you may as well just roof over the turntable, too. Then, you don't need the decking to keep the snow out of the pit. I imagine they decked the B&O pit so people could walk straight across instead of around the pit. And, of course, things and people wouldn't fall in. The downside of the decking (in the real world) is taking care of it. There were other roundhouses (fully round) that also had the turntable inside the building. The SP had one up in the Sierras (I think, I'm not an SP guy).

It would certainly be neat if someone came up with an outdoor example of a decked pit.

Ed

[cuyama]

7j43k

I can't imagine this is info that you'll consider useful, but the turntable inside the roundhouse at the B&O Museum is that way.

That may even have been the prototype for the Atlas unit. In real life, I don't know of a single outdoor turntable built for a steam railroad that matched the atlas unit. They did (and do) exist for cable car and trolley lines.

The atlas unit was built that way for ease of installation, not because a real railroad would build one that way outdoors.

[markpierce]

cuyama

 They did (and do) exist for cable car and trolley lines.

Aha, the turntable at Powell and Market in San Francisco.

"Basically, there are three cable car routes in operation, and it helps to know their respective destinations. At Powell and Market streets, there is a cable car turntable which serves as the beginning stop for two (north/south) lines, the Powell-Mason and Powell- Hyde lines. The Powell-Mason line begins at the Powell/Market turntable, and the line runs from there up and over Nob Hill and down to Bay Street at Fisherman's Wharf. The Powell-Hyde line also begins at the Powell Market turntable and runs over Nob and Russian hills before ending at Aquatic Park near Ghiradelli Square. Both these lines end near Fisherman's Wharf, but at different areas, and the routes are significantly different (although they initially run on the same route on Powell) ...

"The California Street line runs East-West from the Financial District, through Chinatown, over Nob Hill and stops at Van Ness Avenue."

Now, the question arises why there is only one turntable while there are five end-points to the system.

Mark

[7j43k]

markpierce

Now, the question arises why there is only one turntable while there are five end-points to the system.

Mark

There are three turntables:

There's one at the other end of the Powell-Hyde lines:

http://www.mayoff.com/5-01cablecarDCP01934.jpg

And here's another one at the end of the Powell-Mason line:

http://image03.webshots.com/3/2/56/33/12425633ukpmZgZXbn_ph.jpg

Now, I know there's no turntable at the east end of the California Street line. I don't know the other end; though I expect there's no turntable there, either. I expect the difference in distribution of turntables is because the lines were built at different times--not all at once. I believe the California Street line was built in 1878, while the Powell line(s) were built 10 years later (apologies to people who actually KNOW this stuff).

Ed

[markpierce]

OK, and contrary to the article I previously cited, Wikipedia indicates there are just three (one each at the northern ends of the Powell/Mason and Powell Hyde and one at the southern common terminus of those two lines):

• The Powell-Hyde (Line 60)^[7] line runs north and steeply uphill from a terminal at Powell and Market Streets, before crossing the California Street line at the crest of the hill. Downhill from this crest it turns left and uphill again along Jackson Street (as this is one-way, cable cars in the opposite direction use the parallel Washington Street), to a crest at Hyde Street. Here it turns right and steeply downhill along Hyde Street to the Hyde and Beach terminal, which is adjacent to the waterfront at the San Francisco Maritime Museum. Man-powered turntables turn the cable cars around at the two ends. This line is used greatly by tourists and often has long queues.

• The Powell-Mason (Line 59) line shares the tracks of the Powell-Hyde line as far as Mason Street, where it crosses Washington and Jackson streets. Here the line turns right and downhill along Mason Street, briefly half left along Columbus Avenue, and then down Taylor Street to a terminal at Taylor and Bay. This terminus is near to, but two blocks back from, the waterfront at Fisherman's Wharf. There are man-powered turntables at each end that turn the cars around. This line is also used greatly by tourists, but also some commuters.

• The California Street (Line 61) line runs due west from a terminal at California and Market Streets, close to the junction of Market with the waterfront Embarcadero. The line once ran a much longer distance from Presidio Ave. to Market street but was reduced in the 50's. Ideas to restore the whole line have been proposed but not acted on. The whole of the line lies on California Street, running at first uphill to the summit of Nob Hill, then more gently downhill to a terminus at Van Ness Avenue. This line is used to a greater extent by commuters, with majority of passengers on weekdays being commuters.

So, there doesn't appear to be any turntables on the California Street Line. 

[toot toot]

i seem to remember reading somewhere that the Atlas turntable was based on a Boston and Maine covered turntable. 

[Geared Steam]

toot toot

i seem to remember reading somewhere that the Atlas turntable was based on a Boston and Maine covered turntable. 

That's exactly what I was thinking, I have searched high and low for  a picture of a prototype turntable that Atlas could have used, but I have never found one.

[wjstix]

Maybe 20 years ago at a regional NMRA meet a guy did a presentation where he mentioned that he had found several examples of covered turntables like the Atlas one. I can't recall the prototypes but I think at least one was a logging railroad in upper Michigan where they had massive snowfalls. (Remember that in the Great Lakes region, logging was normally done only in winter.)

[tomikawaTT]

7j43k

markpierce

Now, the question arises why there is only one turntable while there are five end-points to the system.

Mark

 

There are three turntables:

 

There's one at the other end of the Powell-Hyde lines:

 

http://www.mayoff.com/5-01cablecarDCP01934.jpg

 

And here's another one at the end of the Powell-Mason line:

 

http://image03.webshots.com/3/2/56/33/12425633ukpmZgZXbn_ph.jpg

 

Now, I know there's no turntable at the east end of the California Street line. I don't know the other end; though I expect there's no turntable there, either. I expect the difference in distribution of turntables is because the lines were built at different times--not all at once. I believe the California Street line was built in 1878, while the Powell line(s) were built 10 years later (apologies to people who actually KNOW this stuff).

Ed

IIRC, the California Street cars are double-ended.

Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)

[don7]

CPR turntable in Revelstoke British Columbia. There would be a lot of snow at this location in the winter.

http://www.bcarchives.gov.bc.ca/cgi-bin/www2i/.visual/img_med/dir_160/a_09598.gif

 

[Geared Steam]

 Don

Thank you much, now I can check that off my list. 

[Tugboat Tony]

7j43k

There were other roundhouses (fully round) that also had the turntable inside the building. The SP had one up in the Sierras (I think, I'm not an SP guy).

 

THe SP's house and turntable at Norden was fully covered, but the table and pit were not decked in.

[Allegheny2-6-6-6]

 A lot of early shorline railroads had small decked turntables mainly back in the late 1800's to the ealy 1900's and most of which were turned by hand and I don't mean with a crank. Notice that big piece of timber sticking up at an angle

 

 

 Two guys showing the more glamorous side of railroading

 

 

[challenger3980]

The Lahaina, Kanaapali & Pacific, on the Island of Maui has one at their Lahaina Depot.I will look to see if I have an pics that show the turntable, We rode the "Sugar Cane Train" in May when we got Married on Maui.

Doug

[challenger3980]

This isn't my video, I found this on youtube, but at about 2:15 into the video it shows a very good clip of the 2-4-0 Anaka going for a spin on the turntable. I do remember saying out loud "So that Atlas turntable isn't so silly after all" when I saw this actual turntable, granted it doesn't pause every30 degrees or so of rotation.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBtQ3PXjHhI

 

Doug

[Geared Steam]

challenger3980

o that Atlas turntable isn't so silly after all"

 LOL , thanks for the link, I would have said the very same thing. 

[AzBaja]

here is the link to the the suger cane train in Maui with a photo

 http://www.flickr.com/photos/80651083@N00/3722837556/

 

www.GSMrr.net

 

[yellowducky]

Hey, Allegheny 2-6-6-6, Where were these two pics taken, and what's with the cog track in the foregrone of the 2nd.?

FDM

[richg1998]

 I have at least a dozen photos of wooden covered turntables in the USA from some books on old time railroads. The books are by Abdill and mostly photos of 1800s to early 1900s locos. Some just happened to be on the TT when photographed. I cannot post the photos.

Imagine having to shovel a few feet of snow out of a pit where the turntable is moved my hand, not electrical power. These where mostly in northern railroads where there could be quite a lot of snow.

Rich

 

[Alan Robinson]

markpierce

Aha, the turntable at Powell and Market in San Francisco.

"Basically, there are three cable car routes in operation, and it helps to know their respective destinations. At Powell and Market streets, there is a cable car turntable which serves as the beginning stop for two (north/south) lines, the Powell-Mason and Powell- Hyde lines. The Powell-Mason line begins at the Powell/Market turntable, and the line runs from there up and over Nob Hill and down to Bay Street at Fisherman's Wharf. The Powell-Hyde line also begins at the Powell Market turntable and runs over Nob and Russian hills before ending at Aquatic Park near Ghiradelli Square. Both these lines end near Fisherman's Wharf, but at different areas, and the routes are significantly different (although they initially run on the same route on Powell) ...

"The California Street line runs East-West from the Financial District, through Chinatown, over Nob Hill and stops at Van Ness Avenue."

Now, the question arises why there is only one turntable while there are five end-points to the system.

Mark

The Powell lines use single ended cars. This means that they are equipped with a single grip assembly to grab the moving cable. The grip assembly only works in one direction, hence the need to turn these cars at both ends of their runs. This requires the three turntables.

The California line uses a different design of car with dual grips, one for each direction of travel. Thus these cars need no turntable at the ends of the line. They can simply be reversed with a simple switch. They do need to move a short distance using gravity before the grip can be locked onto the cable moving in the reverse direction.

If you google cable cars and investigate the links, you will see the rather interesting mechanisms used on these fascinating street railways. An interesting point of history is to note that before the development of electric traction, many cities had cable operated street railroads even if there were no hills. Even such cities as Washington, DC had cable lines. Many different mechanical systems were used, but all involved the same principle of the car using a mechanical grip to grab onto a continuously moving cable to obtain motion.

[bigduke76]

there was another full-deck turntable outdoors until the early 1950's on the B&O at the end of its short Frederick, MD branch, and i believe photos of that one were the inspiration or prototype for the original atlas HO turntaable.  -big duke

[tassietiger]

To RubberDucky - As a proud Tasmanian, let me tell u more about the 2 blokes on the 'armstrong' turntable. The links provides u with some info - 'http://www.westcoastwildernessrailway.com.au/' & 'http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Lyell_Mining_and_Railway_Company' At the place shown, Dubbil Barril, a steam 'cog' loco & a diesel meet up from opposite directions, r turned around & then head back to their respective 'homes' ie Queenstown & Strahan. Steam is put to the test on the up/down section & the diesel has a flat run. The passengers swap coaches and continue their trip behind a different loco after enjoying a provided lunch while admiring the rainforest & river scenery & watching the turntable entertainment. Some 'nice to know' info is - I have been on it twice, grabbed a ride in the Diesel, been in the back of a hi-rail truck on it, chased it on my bicycle (whew), drove along it before it was rebuilt, taken lotsa photos etc - From a lover of all things in isolated Western Tasmania, which is considered a bit weird by other Tasmanians. I try to escape there for 1 week a year & explore.