Was the conductor, way back in the caboose of a long train, able to signal the engineer up front by "tweaking" the air line pressure to give a go ahead or otherwise, in the days before radio, and the engineer to acknowledge same way?
Isambard
Grizzly Northern history, Tales from the Grizzly and news on line at isambard5935.blogspot.com
Yes he could set a little air to get the engineers atention.Read quite a few stories on it. Now a days I just lok across the cab and say something when he says something to me.
Yes we are on time but this is yesterdays train
The caboose also had an air whistle that could be used for signals. It probably wouldn't be heard while moving but stopped in a yard doing a brake test it could.
The engineer wouldn't tweek the air line, he would use the whistle.
Dave H.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
hand and lantern signals (and sometimes a fusee) were the usual method of communication back then. of course it was necessary to get somebody on the head end to look back for the signal so setting a little air would probably do the job of getting their attention.
some railroads had signals on the caboose cupola, controlled from the inside, that could be seen from the engine if there were no high cars in the train. i think the ATSF had them on some of their cabs.
when visability was poor or the train was long, a brakeman sometimes rode the top of the train to pass signals from one end to the other.
a prescribed whistle signal was supposed to be sounded about one mile in advance when approaching a station or meeting point to let the conductor know the hogger had not forgotten about the meet and if the conductor did not hear that signal he was supposed to set the air and stop the train. better to break in two than to collide head on.
radios were standard of all our road trains when i started railroading but the TRRA of st louis was still a pretty wooden axle outfit and i often observed how they did things.
when making an interchange delivery to the former PRR yard the rear man would set a little air when he wanted to cut the caboose off. the engineer would back a bit of slack into the cut and the rear man would turn the angle **** on the rear car and pull the pin. after waiting a short interval for this to occur, the engine would pull the cut to the other end of the track, cut off and come back through a clear track to get the cab.
of course, if the guy on the caboose was sleeping or not paying attention some of the hard headed hoggers would just keep on pulling right out the other end of the track if the way was clear even when they knew they had 30 cars and were in a 50 car length track. this would bring a tirade of profanities from the PRR yardmaster, most of whom thought they were God's gift to the railroad industry anyway.
if there was a yard clerk at the west end checking the cars as they came in he would often throw a couple of rocks at the caboose to get the rear man's attention if he was not already out on the rear platform.
"everything works better when we all work together"
unlike our model railroads, the guys on the real thing could seldom see what was going on at the other end of the train or cut so hand signals were very important.
i have told this before but it is worth repeating. i switched with an engineer who would not lean out the window to see hand signals so i always had to step back away from the cars to get his attention. i eventually got tired of this rawhide move so i would run him into a cut of standing cars at about 6 or 8 miles per hour. after he got back on the seat box he started rubber necking so he would not miss an easy or stop signal again. he only needed a refresher course every month or so.
grizlump
I'm right in the process of reading THE RAILROAD CABOOSE Its 100 year history,Legend and Lore by William F. Knapke. An absolute gem of a book , recommend it highly If you can find it.
That is a great book. I got my copy off ebay and it has some real good insight as to "how it was done in the old days"
Griz its amazing how engineers look back when you do that a few times lol.
A conductor wasn't above walking the cat walks to the engine nor was some above riding in the engine cab.
We fail to realise several things that was once facts in the railroad world was not as clear cut as the books portray them to be..
We fail realize that old railroad men was a tough breed in a tough work world..
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
Ya that's what I was going to say, that's why freight cars had roofwalks. The conductor may need to walk all the way up to the engine...or let the brakeman do it.
I don't know but I'd suspect very few cabooses had air whistles, or that they could be heard from the engine on a long train pounding along at speed. I suspect they had more to do with grade crossings encountered during backing moves etc. although I suppose they could be used on a short train for signalling ahead or at least getting the head-end crew's attention??
Stix,Cabooses had a little air whistle that was used for grade crossings while making a reverse moves.
You are correct..The engineer wouldn't be able to hear this whistle over the noise of the train.
All the cabooses that I've seen had a brake valve inside (usually near the conductor's table) that was supposed to be opened one notch at a time to bring the train to a gradual stop. Most men preferred to go out on the platform and use the backup valve to apply the brakes because (they said) the notched valve would sometimes dump the air in the first notch. Also, at least some of the valves with notches had to be opened all the way before they could be returned to the closed position.
Even on a short train the air might have to be used to get the head end to look back for a hand signal.
In regards to the Santa Fe wig wags, some may find the below link of interest:
http://www.atsfrr.net/resources/Sandifer/WigWag/Index.htm
thanks for your post on the ATSF wig-wags. it was most enlightening and shows just how far communications have come in the railroad industry.
funny how we used to have to get into radio range before we could talk to a block operator and now days some guy keys a mike in southern illinois and talks to someone in a basement in Omaha.
at the old NYC lower yard at E St Louis, we had a 3 color signal mounted on a high pole just outside the yard office that was used to pass signals to the yard engine when setting a long tofc train over to the ramps.
the engine would be out of sight up on the TRRA and around a curve so we used the light, green for come ahead, yellow for easy, red for stop and flashing green for back up.
once some vagrant passing through got curious about the little switch in the box on the pole and flipped it to the green setting while no one was around. the yard job was doubling a long train into the yard from the rear and when the engineer saw the signal we wound up shoving it off the end of a stub track, out across front street, across the wiggins and into the sea wall by the river.
the engineer had been restricted to fireman because of his vision and the poor guy couldn't see five car lengths. he should have though it was an awfully long shove but he was "just following orders" heck, if the train had been that long they would have had to go to Granite City go get in behind it.
oh well, we could do enough damage with a two dollar lantern
we seldom used radios in the yard because especially after the PC merger there were so many engines working and so few channels you couldn't get a work in edgewise. downright unsafe with all that cross talk. most of the yard engines were equipped with radios but they were for the convenience of the yardmaster so he could gripe and moan when he thought it appropriate.