Doesnt matter really. Unless they are rotary knuckle cars. You dont want a car with rotary to rotary cause you could wind up haveing two knuckles then being solid ones. IE dont try to rotate it.
The A and B end are just there so we can figure out which end of the car is which.Helps when calling in or making a report of a defect.
Yes we are on time but this is yesterdays train
Instead of A end or B end, think R(otary) end. The usual procedure will have all of the rotary knuckles facing one way and coupled to the fixed coupler of the adjacent car. Or two rotary couplers might be mated somewhere in the train, making the first and last couplers fixed. Fixed couplers will NOT be mated unless the unloading dumper can handle two cars at a time.
If the locomotives run through the car dumper the fixed coupler on the rear of the locomotive will be mated to a rotary coupler.
Happily for my own sanity, my unit trains unload from the bottom - no rotary dumper at Minamijima.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - with unit coal trains)
Era dependent.
In the caboose era the car end coupled to the engine must be a rotary and the end of the car coupled to the caboose must be a rotary. Somewhere in the train must be a double rotary, one car that has both ends with a rotary coupler. Cars between the head end and the double rotary have the rotary couple on the leading end and cars between the double rotary and the caboose have the rotary coupler on the rear of the car.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
Many hoppers have rotary couplers. They usually have the rotary end painted a different color. All hoppers have discharge gates on the bottom.
"No soup for you!" - Yev Kassem (from Seinfeld)
Wait just one minute. I thought hopper cars had openings/chutes so they can be self-unloading. An open car requied to be turned upside to unload because it has no chutes doesn't sound like a hopper car to me. In my mind, such a car is a gondola. Seems to me that just because a type of car carries products typically carried by traditional hopper cars doesn't make that car a hopper. Someone providing the appropriate ARA car-type code might calm my befuddlement.
Mark
Mark, I would say that you are right about hoppers have discharge gates and gondolas not having any (although there were, and possibly are, drop bottom gondolas). However, some open hoppers do have rotary couplers. Here is a link to a photograph of one.
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=388949
It makes sense to me that hoppers have both discharge doors and rotary couplers. Wouldn't that make a car more useful? It could be used to serve any customer, rather than just bottom dump customers or rotary dump customers?
NS-DJHI'm assembling a Norfolk Southern string of 100 ton coal hoppers. Prototypically, does the "A" or "B" end go toward the head of the train or does it matter? For adjoining cars coupled together, are they linked A-to-B ends or A-to-A and B-to-B or does it matter? I am installing an EOTD on the last car -- does it go on the A or B end or does it matter?
In a perfect world the B end would be facing the A end.Again in a perfect world.
However,in the real word cars get turned and its B to A,A to A,B to B and theres no set pattern.
So,it doesn't matter.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
pajrr It makes sense to me that hoppers have both discharge doors and rotary couplers. Wouldn't that make a car more useful? It could be used to serve any customer, rather than just bottom dump customers or rotary dump customers?
The customer orders the type of car he needs and the railroad simply fills that order.
Why tie up rotary cars on customers that uses old fashion car dumpers while you still have thousands of 90-100 ton 3 bay hoppers in your car fleet to serve such customers?
Also all docks isn't equal and here's some interesting reading:
http://www.nscorp.com/nscportal/nscorp/Customers/Coal/Transload/
https://www.csx.com/?fuseaction=customers.coal_gis
pajrrIt makes sense to me that hoppers have both discharge doors and rotary couplers. Wouldn't that make a car more useful? It could be used to serve any customer, rather than just bottom dump customers or rotary dump customers?
That's exactly correct, many sets of equipment are rotary dump hoppers, just so they can serve both types of facilities.
markpierceWait just one minute. I thought hopper cars had openings/chutes so they can be self-unloading. An open car requied to be turned upside to unload because it has no chutes doesn't sound like a hopper car to me. In my mind, such a car is a gondola. Seems to me that just because a type of car carries products typically carried by traditional hopper cars doesn't make that car a hopper. Someone providing the appropriate ARA car-type code might calm my befuddlement.
If it has doors to unload in the bottom of the car its a hopper.
Whether or not it can rotary dump has nothing to do with whether its a hopper or a gon, both types of cars can be equipped with rotary couplers.
BRAKIE In a perfect world the B end would be facing the A end.Again in a perfect world. However,in the real word cars get turned and its B to A,A to A,B to B and theres no set pattern. So,it doesn't matter.
It most certainly does if its a rotary dump train. Railroads spend time and money keeping the sets straight because it delays the unloading process and costs the railroad time (money) to unload the train. Plus if the trains has to be constantly cut apart and put back together to take care of rotary mismatches the railroad has to keep a crew on the train at all times. If the rotaries are aligned, the utility can unload many trains without requiring a crew to stay on the train.
If the set is jumbled then its probably not a rotary set (the destination bottom dumps).
BRAKIE The customer orders the type of car he needs and the railroad simply fills that order. Why tie up rotary cars on customers that uses old fashion car dumpers while you still have thousands of 90-100 ton 3 bay hoppers in your car fleet to serve such customers?
The customer may own the cars, not the railroad. They may have both types of facilities, so they buy cars that unload both ways.
The railroad may buy cars that are equipped both ways so they can serve both types of facility with teh same set. If you load a bottom dump set for a company and the power plant goes down or can't unload the train and that company's other facilities are rotary dump you are stuck, you have no opportunity to divert the set. Plus most of the dual equipped cars are lighter weight, higher capacity cars allowing more coal to be hauled per train. That's a BIG deal with the railroads. If you can haul 10-15% more coal with a 286,000 cap aluminium car over a 90 ton steel belly dump, that's 10-15% fewer trains you have to run, 10-15% fewer crew starts, 10-15% fewer cars you have to buy and maintain to move the same amount of coal. BIG bucks.
The eastern railroads that have traditionally hauled coal for decades and serve power plants/steel mills/customers that have been there for decades are stuck with more of the old steel belly dumps. The western roads whose coal business picked up in the last 2-3 decades and serve more new high capacity power plants have a higher percentage of the high cap, rotary equipped cars.
dehusman BRAKIE The customer orders the type of car he needs and the railroad simply fills that order. Why tie up rotary cars on customers that uses old fashion car dumpers while you still have thousands of 90-100 ton 3 bay hoppers in your car fleet to serve such customers? The customer may own the cars, not the railroad. They may have both types of facilities, so they buy cars that unload both ways. The railroad may buy cars that are equipped both ways so they can serve both types of facility with teh same set. If you load a bottom dump set for a company and the power plant goes down or can't unload the train and that company's other facilities are rotary dump you are stuck, you have no opportunity to divert the set. Plus most of the dual equipped cars are lighter weight, higher capacity cars allowing more coal to be hauled per train. That's a BIG deal with the railroads. If you can haul 10-15% more coal with a 286,000 cap aluminium car over a 90 ton steel belly dump, that's 10-15% fewer trains you have to run, 10-15% fewer crew starts, 10-15% fewer cars you have to buy and maintain to move the same amount of coal. BIG bucks. The eastern railroads that have traditionally hauled coal for decades and serve power plants/steel mills/customers that have been there for decades are stuck with more of the old steel belly dumps. The western roads whose coal business picked up in the last 2-3 decades and serve more new high capacity power plants have a higher percentage of the high cap, rotary equipped cars.
Dave,Did you even bother to check those links in my reply?
Its makes excellent reading from NS and CSX or are you depending on Kalmbach books?
Try unloading a rotary car at Sandusky-good luck.
A lot of coal still goes to lake ports and not just power or coke plants.Even some of the older power plants doesn't use rotaries.Ditto for steel and coke plants.
Even if a plant goes down due to a maintenance problem the coal is held and not sent to another facility because that maintenance problem will be fix asap.Besides power plants keeps coal stockpiled in the event the delivering railroad can not deliver due to a derailment or natural disaster..
dehusman BRAKIE In a perfect world the B end would be facing the A end.Again in a perfect world. However,in the real word cars get turned and its B to A,A to A,B to B and theres no set pattern. So,it doesn't matter. It most certainly does if its a rotary dump train. Railroads spend time and money keeping the sets straight because it delays the unloading process and costs the railroad time (money) to unload the train. Plus if the trains has to be constantly cut apart and put back together to take care of rotary mismatches the railroad has to keep a crew on the train at all times. If the rotaries are aligned, the utility can unload many trains without requiring a crew to stay on the train. If the set is jumbled then its probably not a rotary set (the destination bottom dumps).
I've seen enough NS and CSX coal trains to notice the brake wheels are not line perfectly B to A end.This includes Top Gons to Bethgons..
You see unlike the majority of railfans I pay close attention to each passing train instead of turning my back and walking away after the locomotives pass.
BRAKIE Its makes excellent reading from NS and CSX or are you depending on Kalmbach books?
No, I'm relying on years of experience working with power plants and unit trains.
Even if a plant goes down due to a maintenance problem the coal is held and not sent to another facility because that maintenance problem will be fix asap.
Not necessarily. Many utilities have several power plants and will often shift trains between plants during outages. Sometimes "ASAP" can be a week or more. They may shift them because of an outage, because the plant has too much or too little coal or because there aren't ships or barges or because the coal quality (BTU rating, sulphur content, ash content) doesn't meet specs.
BRAKIEI've seen enough NS and CSX coal trains to notice the brake wheels are not line perfectly B to A end.This includes Top Gons to Bethgons..
If its a bottom dump train or a single car rotary, you're right, it doesn't matter. If a coupled in train rotary then it definitely matters.
As I said before, western roads tend to have a lot of coupled in train rotary dumps so they keep their rotary trains clean and all the rotaries aligned. If the rotaries are aligned the A end, B end's will be aligned.
NS-DJH Regarding my EOTD question -- I'm thinking it would make sense to put the device on the B end if for no other reason that is where all of the fixtures associated with the brake system are located. Not having worked on a prototype maybe again I'm over-reading this and it really doesn't matter, either. Am I?
The EOT goes on the end coupler of the last car. Doesn't matter if it's the A or B end, whether it's the fixed coupler or rotary coupler end. The only fixtures the EOT needs is the coupler to hang it on and the train line brake hose to couple into. Both ends have these features.
For EOTs on the rotary coupler end, there is a device that can be applied to keep the coupler from rotating. Of course it isn't always there allowing the EOT to lean. When having communication problems with the EOT we'll ask a passing train to see if the EOT is leaning.
That would make for an interesting model. Have the EOT on the rotary end and have the coupler/EOT rotated over about 45 degrees. You'ld lose the use of the coupler, but it would be different.
Jeff
jeffhergertThe EOT goes on the end coupler of the last car. Doesn't matter if it's the A or B end, whether it's the fixed coupler or rotary coupler end. The only fixtures the EOT needs is the coupler to hang it on and the train line brake hose to couple into. Both ends have these features.
Exactly correct. The EOT connects to the train line not the brake valve on the car.