It's another thing I want to model in the next forever, but I can't find the one artistic rendering I know of of the car. I can try to dig up the car number, if no pictures are handy. I do not recall if the actual cars made it into paint before they were sold to DRGW or not, and were later modified into mid train service. I want the actual Obs, in the C&O proposed streamliner scheme.
-Morgan
Morgan:
I ran into the same problem when I was building my 1950 Rio Grande "Royal Gorge". You can't use the BLI "California Zephyr" dome-obs, because the dome itself is too high--unless you want to do a lot of kit-bashing. The "Chessie" had domes set lower into the roof, evidently because of C&O clearances in some of their tunnels.
What I DID find is a Con-Cor 85' Pullman dome car with fluted sides that had a somewhat lower dome. But then of course, you get into the problem of 'rounding off' the end. You'd still have to do some kit-bashing and cutting with another round-end fluted observation to get what you really want.
I finally gave up and just put the dome in the middle of the train as per Rio Grande practice, only without the 'adjusted' round end.
But if you can still find them, the Con-Cor 85' fluted side Pullman dome cars might be at least a starting point.
Tom
Tom View my layout photos! http://s299.photobucket.com/albums/mm310/TWhite-014/Rio%20Grande%20Yuba%20River%20Sub One can NEVER have too many Articulateds!
Sorry about not getting back to you sooner.
7j43kAnd a problem with using the CZ dome obs is that the roof to the rear of the dome is higher than on the rest of the car--the Chessie cars maintain the same height roof
This confuses me.
7j43kThe dome was visually raked (or slanted) forward on these cars. It's a quite obvious characteristic.
Not sure it's a detail anyone I know currently would catch. I'm more of a "Get the impression of" kinda guy anyway, and since it'll be running Private Varnish in the 21st Century, not sure it bothers me much.
Tom: Did you see this:http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/223-77107 I have it, I'll do a roof comp with the BLI Rio.
Thanks guys, your facts, accuracies, and details are breaking ma widdle heart *Sniff* [/sarcasm]
Look under 1875 "Big Ben" this page
http://trainweb.org/passengercars/Indices/C4.htm
Not in C&O or Chessie paint but will give two good shots of the car.
Ricky
RedGrey62 Look under 1875 "Big Ben" this page http://trainweb.org/passengercars/Indices/C4.htm Not in C&O or Chessie paint but will give two good shots of the car. Ricky
Been there. I see the taper in he dome now though, but what I really want is the chessie paint. Could go by the GIF at the top. And I think that those two photos are post- mid train modification
Did the original have the rear door or is that the mid train modification you speak of? If not, it should be easy to compare to other Budd domes to get an idea of what it would look like.
Here are some more late pics, some with just the door, others with the roof extension, 1875-1877 pictured. Other than the book mentioned in previous post, may be near impossible locating one in C&O paint on the web.
http://www.trainweb.org/web_lurker/CO/
and here for 1875
http://cwrr.com/Lounge/Reports/green/green.html
RedGrey62 Did the original have the rear door or is that the mid train modification you speak of? If not, it should be easy to compare to other Budd domes to get an idea of what it would look like.
There may have been a door there, I waan say some Observations had a door in the end as an excape option that was shaped to the end of the car, but the boxy thing on the end is the modifcation.
RedGrey62Other than the book mentioned in previous post, may be near impossible locating one in C&O paint on the web.
I understand the need for the dome arrangement C & O spec'd due to tunnel clearances, but I think that extreme sloped end falls into the ugly column. More of the Budd and ACF squared style myself.
7j43kCar heights from various sources: UP and GN dome coaches: 15-10 ATSF and GN dome lounges (full domes): 15-6 1/2 C&O dome observation: 15-5 3/4 I also found this when I googled "height dome zephyr"--note the height chart: http://www.trainweb.org/web_lurker/WebLurkersDOMEmain/ It's also a pretty neat dome car site to explore. Ed
Ed
Yeah, I ran across them doing research on the GM Train of Tomrrow, but I had not seen the height chart
Surprisingly little difference between the styles. Of course, that 1.5 inches could be problematic if you were on the wrong side of too tall. But then again, you could always discount the dome seat tickets using a sliding scale based on risk of death due to being decapitated.
Remember too, that western steamrs are larger than some Eastern counterparts of same driver count. 2101vs4449
The Chessie dome-observation cars were painted for the C&O and used on trains out of Chicago to Grand Rapids and Muskegon, Michigan for a short period. While used on the former Pere Marquette, they had yellow letterboards with blue script "Chesapeake & Ohio" lettering, but were otherwise all stainless steel.
Eastbound, the dome-observation and a coach were cut off at Holland, Michigan, where a BL2 and a coach-baggage would couple on and proceed the remaining 34 miles up to Muskegon. One of the factors in the C&O selling the dome-obs cars to the D&RGW was the C&O removing the turntable at Muskegon in April, 1949, following dieselization of that line. Another factor was the cars' relatively low seating capacity.
With no easy way to turn the cars around at Muskegon, they were reassigned to the Chicago-Grand Rapids leg of the train for a few weeks, then sold to the D&RGW. The rest of the "Chessie" Budd cars were used in service between Chicago and Grand Rapids (with yellow letterboards and blue script "Chesapeake & Ohio" lettering) until early 1951.
In the late 1970s, Lambert imported a plated brass body in HO for the C&O's dome-observation cars. Typically they sell for $90 to $125 when they show up for sale lately. This is the only commercially-released model of any of the cars built for the "Chessie" streamliner.
Before he died a couple of years ago, one of my buddies had started working on a project to get either a brass importer or a brass car side manufacturer to make the Budd lunch counter-observation cars and combine #1403 that the C&O ordered for trains connecting to the "Chessie" streamliner. Those cars stayed in service on the C&O up until Amtrak Day.
-Fritz Milhaupt, Publications Editor, Pere Marquette Historical Society, Inc.http://www.pmhistsoc.org
fmilhauptEastbound, the dome-observation and a coach were cut off at Holland, Michigan, where a BL2 and a coach-baggage would couple on and proceed the remaining 34 miles up to Muskegon
The letterboard band was the same Federal Yellow as used on the C&O's tri-color Pullman Standard cars.
The blue herald next to the vestibule is the simpler "donut herald", not the full "For Progress" version.
The book "The Domeliners" by Patrick Dorin has three chapters showing the C&O Dome Obs cars.
Page 177 shows one photo in D&RGW Four Stripe paint
On page 190 is three photos one of the exterior one of the dome interior and one of the inside of the obs lounge end.Chapter 20 on the Rock Island there is a photo of "Big Ben" on page 191 and on page 192 there are three photos of the interior.
When delivered in 1948, the Budd built cars for the ill fated Chessie domeliner were bare stainless steel with ORANGE letterboards with "The Chessie" spelled out in blue. The orange was to match the paint applied to the Steam Turbine Electrics, and the class L-1 streamlined 4-6-4s, and as I understand was very close to SP Daylight orange. The C&O doughnut herald was stenciled in blue on the stainless windowboards. This picture is of one of the mid-train domes with original lettering. Sory for the poor quality scans.
The picture above shows the dome observation #1877 while in Chicago - Grand Rapids service. The letterboards were painted Federal Yellow with blue Chesapeake and Ohio script when the "Chessie" project was abanonded. But note the Chessie drumhead was still on the rear door.
Grew up in Huntington, WV and my mom worked in the C & O accounting section for over 25 years. Rode the George and Sportsman many times. Played Little League baseball on a field on the western edge of the railroad's shop complex property in the shadows of the round house, coaling tower and main back shop.
I have been facinated by all the information about this train that has surfaced in this thread.
I know I have some color prints of the "Chessie" promotional photos from 1948, but for the life of me can't find them. I must be looking in the wrong boxes. I wanted to something to show the orange paint applied to the letterboards of the Chessie cars. All I found was the print below of a filthy L-1 4-6-4 still in orange paint. Again sorry for the scan quality.
Trace Fork I know I have some color prints of the "Chessie" promotional photos from 1948, but for the life of me can't find them. I must be looking in the wrong boxes. I wanted to something to show the orange paint applied to the letterboards of the Chessie cars. All I found was the print below of a filthy L-1 4-6-4 still in orange paint. Again sorry for the scan quality.
The thing I find kind of frustrating about "The Chessie" in HO is that there have been a couple of brass M1 turbines brought out in HO over the years and a couple of brass L1 Hudsons, but only the dome-observation car for the associated rolling stock.
Now, having said that, there was a plastic train set made by Con-Cor to look like "The Chessie". Con-Cor took a Rivarossi NYC streamlined Hudson and painted it orange, blue and silver, then put a set of its Budd cars behind it. This would have been in the mid-to-late 1980s, when Con-Cor was bring out collector sets in HO. The cars didn't really have the look of the "Chessie"'s unique cars, and included a full Budd baggage car, which the C&O didn't have.
It was a neat-looking set, and probably as close as anyone will get in ready-to-run for at least the foreseeable future, but if you've spent too much time looking at the C&O's passenger cars, like I have, the Con-Cor cars just don't cut it.
On the other hand, the two streamlined Pullman-Standard baggage cars the C&O did have, PM #60 and 61, were released by Walthers last week. I picked up mine today and think that Walthers got these cars just right. They have two versions: #932-6815, which looks like the cars did when they were delivered, and #932-6817, which models the cars after they lost their fluting in the late 1950s. They represented the cars' welded-on stainless steel "Pere Marquette" script lettering by using a dark gray drop shadow below the silver lettering. This looks very effective to me.