Greetings,
Hopefully I can word this well enough so that all of you understand my inquiry. When transitioning from a ballasted mainline or secondary track down to, say - a "level" yard covered with cinders, would the graded track be ballasted all the way down to where it meets and levels out to the yard? If not, where would the ballast stop?
I'm looking to mimic a steam/early diesel servicing track area in the early 40s. Although I can find pictures of yards that are "cindered", I'm not entirely sure how far a track is normally ballasted as it descends into a flat yard.
I will try and post a picture later tonight of what I'm attempting to do on my layout. Thanks for the help...
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
Here's pictures of what I was trying to describe above:
The cork roadbed in all three images is for a spur that will be ballasted. The white ramp transitions from the spur down to the servicing yard. Diesels will follow the straight section of the turnout; steam will take the diverging track.
Again, what I'm trying to figure out is how far down the ramp the ballast should extend before it meets the cinder base in the yard. Or, do I have some flexibility in that regard.
I hope that makes a little more sense. Thanks again for the help...
The ballast used on the main track would stop on the diverging route not sooner than after the last long tie of the turnout. Where it stops after the last long tie would depend on whether the yard track has to be raised to the level of the main track before it reaches the last long tie. If the yard track is considerably below the main track, there will be a ballast "run-out" to raise the yard track. This run-out could consist of either the junk material such as cinders used to surface the yard, or the higher quality ballast used to surface the main track. Some of the factors that will affect this decision is the quality of the main track surfacing, which in that era, on other than a major Class 1 and other than a major trunk line would probably be pretty low-quality at such a location.
Much of the railroad track in the early 40s, even the main tracks, was surfaced with very poor quality material by today's standards. There were large portions of main lines not surfaced with anything better than pit-run gravel that was full of fines. Typical "ballast material" sold to model railroaders is much too clean and uniform in size, shape, and composition to be representative of almost all the ballast of that era. A secondary track leading to an engine terminal, unless this is the PRR at Enola or some other exalted location, would likely be poor quality pit-run material mixed with cinders, chat, local mud that's worked up into the track from the subgrade, or who knows what. When labor was cheap, the quality of the ballast wasn't all that important. If you study old photos carefully you begin to realize just how crummy most of the ballast was in that era.
RWM
RWM gave a great answer. All I can add to it is that from the yards I've seen it appears to me that no great thought or effort went into the "transition area". For all practical purposes, once the switch is cleared then the poor quality ballast (and even worse quality track work) takes over right away. It' a little like the railroad just gave up at that point and said "good enough whatever" and thought no more on it.
This is an example on a CSX line. Notice how right after the switch the track drops suddenly to ground level and only a thin bed of ballast supports the track. The train will be moving about 5 mph at this point, so shoddy track is just fine. Even the transition area at the Wilmington DE Amtrak yard onto the high speed line is not much better than what is pictured here.
You have much leeway in modeling a "transition" area
The Dixie D Short Line "Lux Lucet In Tenebris Nihil Igitur Mors Est Ad Nos 2001"
This is a case of a photo being worth a 1,000 words! Note the different colors of ballast, the irregularity of shoulders, the drainage provisions, the weeds. Model railroads are far, far too neat and clean.
This siding leads off the main and drops down by the thickness of the cork roadbed to service this industrial area. I carried the mainline ballast out to the end of the switch ties, then used mainly cinders. On the actual sidings, ballast is mainly dirt and weeds:
Here, the mainline is at the same elevation as the sidings, so I barely widened the shoulders of the ballast on the main before switching to cinders. The cinders eventually mix with dirt and weeds, along with spilled lading, as the sidings progress away from the main:
Wayne
Railway, t-j, and Wayne;
Thanks for the explanations and the pics. They've both been very helpful.
Like all things railroad nothing is cut and dry and yard ballast is no exception to that rule.
A study of yards will show various "ballast" from cinders to stone and in some rare cases earth,oil and cinders could be seen..
One may even need to research various yards especially those that will be modeled.
And with all due respect a industrail siding is not a yard..It is a section of privately own track.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
BRAKIELike all things railroad nothing is cut and dry and yard ballast is no exception to that rule. A study of yards will show various "ballast" from cinders to stone and in some rare cases earth,oil and cinders could be seen.. One may even need to research various yards especially those that will be modeled. And with all due respect a industrail siding is not a yard..It is a section of privately own track.
You're correct, Larry, but even though I have no yards on my layout, I thought that a couple of pictures would demonstrate my way of making a similar transition. The loco servicing area on my layout is handled the same way, although all tracks are ballasted with cinders - unfortunately, even if I had a picture of it, the transition would be more difficult to see in a photo.
Wayne,No problems always happy to see a pix of your layout..
I just wanted to mention a industry spur is privately own and the ballast could be anything from regular ballast to cinders-I knew one warehouse complex that had their track embedded in concrete pavement like street track..
Railroad yards ranges from well maintain to cinders and weeds-even today you will still find some cinders in older little use outlaying yards.
Transitions from main to industry spur or out laying yard could be 1%..I knew of a foundry that had a rather short but steep grade..The track was built on a fill and the foundry came later.Old GP7/9s and Alco RS units would really lug coming up that short grade with 3-4 cars
I looked through some more photos and I could only come up with these. The first is the actual point of transiton off the main line, the rail turns from 135lb to maybe a 113lb? In any case, the yard rails here date about 1918, other rails along the same track date from the 1930's up to I think it was mid 70's. Yards are the last item on the list for a railroad to maintain.
This next photo is where the main line starts to the right of the photo and where the lighter ballast takes over. I don't have a better photo, sorry. Note the more or less uniform ballast in the yard (and the very high quality rail work!), but lots of dirt, weeds and trash. As brakie pointed out, there are any number of ways to ballast a yard and transiton to the main.
There are several things that you might like to consider.
All the above elements come into the question.
Some things I might note...
These are just some of the options.
From a modelling point of view you can not only tell a story but you can give yourself useful markers.
I feel that you have a great chance to create a huge story image with the situation you have...
You have (it seems) three lots of track.
So now you have to think about several transitions!
Depending on how long ago or how recent anything and the combination of things have happened the transitions can stand out more or blend together more.
You don't have to look at railway track to get a general guide to this sort of history... take a look at the different elements of surface and maintenance at any road junction.
I've probably waffled enough to set up a whole bunch of ideas now.
As several people have said... there is no single rule to what happens... therefore it is up to you to create the picture that you want...