Hi there
I'm building a layout set in upstate NY (Adirondack region) in the late 40's/early 50's.
A freelance line based on a branch of the NYC.
What I am hoping someone might be good enough to answer, is what sort of refrigerated cars would have been found in that region during my time frame.
For example, would it be appropriate for me to have PFE and Santa Fe refrigerator cars seen on the layout ??
What type of reefer was used for transportation of items such as beer, canned goods etc ?
Many thanks in advance
Any of the big reefer fleets would be appropriate. PFE/SFRD/FGEX/MDT/ART/Swift/Armour, etc. Its not where the cars are going, its where the cars came from, where they were loaded.
Dave H.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
What you wouldn't find in the Northeast would be a 75-to-100-car train of solid reefers. That was reserved for the Western states.
Mark
Thanks guys for the info.
cheers
markpierce wrote: What you wouldn't find in the Northeast would be a 75-to-100-car train of solid reefers. That was reserved for the Western states.
Well.....never say never.
I know this is not his era or his area but There was a regular "Tropicana" train of solid reefers that ran from florida to New York City and the present day UP originates a solid reefer train with a destination of Selkirk which is his area, but not his era.
I know the PRR and NYC ran perishable trains so while they might not be as uniform as the western trains, would most likely be mostly reefers. Of those only the NYC trains would go anywhere near upstate New York.
I DVR'd some footage of the New Haven in the late 'forties, and among the freight shots are those of a 2-10-2 wheeling a freight headed by a solid reefer block of PFE's north from New York toward Boston, so there's ample proof that ANY refrigerator car could go ANYWHERE in the US.
Also remember that the Bangor and Aroostock had a pretty sizeable fleet of refrigerator cars, as did New York Central (MDT). A lot of photos I have seen of eastern freight trains had a good share of refrigerator cars in their consists, not only from western railroads, but from Midwestern railroads, also. CNW and Burlington both had a respectable fleet of reefers, as did the Missouri Pacific/Wabash (ART).
Reefers were just like any other freight car--you could almost find them ANYWHERE.
Tom
Tom View my layout photos! http://s299.photobucket.com/albums/mm310/TWhite-014/Rio%20Grande%20Yuba%20River%20Sub One can NEVER have too many Articulateds!
dehusman wrote: markpierce wrote: What you wouldn't find in the Northeast would be a 75-to-100-car train of solid reefers. That was reserved for the Western states.Well.....never say never.I know this is not his era or his area but There was a regular "Tropicana" train of solid reefers that ran from florida to New York City and the present day UP originates a solid reefer train with a destination of Selkirk which is his area, but not his era.I know the PRR and NYC ran perishable trains so while they might not be as uniform as the western trains, would most likely be mostly reefers. Of those only the NYC trains would go anywhere near upstate New York.Dave H.
I KNEW I'd get clobbered by Florida. Glad you guys are awake.
The Bangor & Aroostook into the late 1960`s shipped thousands of carloads of potato products. The peak year shipped 50,000 cars many years 30,000+- . Many of the cars went BAR,MEC, B&M, NH.through the Worcester Ma gateway. In postings on the NHRHTA forum and B&M yahoo there were discussions of sometimes 2 or 3 extras a day into Worcester.The potato shipping season ran from October to April every year. BAR had a fleet of about 2000 ice cars and insulated boxcars and approx 300 mechanical reefers.They also used MDT,NRC and perhaps some PFE cars Of course emptys ran the reverse route.
Some of this potato traffic also went west on the B&M. I know a lot went south through Worcester over the NH to northeast customers.The insulated BAR cars I refered were the 40 foot plug door State of Maine cars . Due the New Haven interest in getting this bridge traffic they also shared in a BAR order of these cars and bought 100 of them To save money these were painted in State of Maine colors with NH reporting marks. They were equipped with underslung charcoal heaters to keep the potatos from freezing.I have read that these were not that sucessful in extreme cold .They also were used to carry paper pruducts.
a little later on (mid 60's) NYC ran a perishable block on the head end of NY-6 out of E St Louis for Selkirk. most of this traffic was produce off the Cotton Belt with a few cars of fresh meat out of National Stock Yards at E St Louis. i am sure similar traffic in much larger volume went east from Chicago.
we also sent blocks of mty NRC and MDT reefers out of Mitchell Illinois, where MDT had a repair shop. a lot of these cars went to the B&M at Rotterdam Jct. NY. they were just billed to the BM agent so i have no idea what they loaded in them.
the tropicana orange juice train mentioned above was for a New Jersey destination primarily for distribution in the greater NYC area.
grizlump
markpierce dehusman wrote: markpierce wrote: What you wouldn't find in the Northeast would be a 75-to-100-car train of solid reefers. That was reserved for the Western states. Well.....never say never. I know this is not his era or his area but There was a regular "Tropicana" train of solid reefers that ran from florida to New York City and the present day UP originates a solid reefer train with a destination of Selkirk which is his area, but not his era. I know the PRR and NYC ran perishable trains so while they might not be as uniform as the western trains, would most likely be mostly reefers. Of those only the NYC trains would go anywhere near upstate New York. Dave H. I KNEW I'd get clobbered by Florida. Glad you guys are awake. Mark
dehusman wrote: markpierce wrote: What you wouldn't find in the Northeast would be a 75-to-100-car train of solid reefers. That was reserved for the Western states.
Then how about those solid reefer trains heading for Buffalo and Boston produce distributors?
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
To boil the above down to something the OP can take to the LHS:
Solid blocks of reefers, or even entire trains of reefers, were a mainline phenomenon. A short line (or minor branch) in upstate New York would probably see reefers in ones and twos (incoming foodstuffs) unless there was a major producer of refrigerated product on-line. If there WAS a major originating point, the cars could be owned by the shipper or the short line, but would more likely belong to the major Class 1 connection.
The reefers would reflect where the lading originated - California products in PFE cars, Maine potatoes in BAR or B&M cars, meat from Chicago in MDT or Armour cars...
Beer would also arrive in reefers - quite colorful ones until the ICC outlawed rolling billboards.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - where fish was a major reefer lading)
It was common to block reefer movements to specific unloading points in the east/northeast, thus mix and match with other car types and reefer owners was the order of the day. Typcially, PE would gather and block east coast cars into solid trainsets at Chicago for westbound movement. What would be rare would be solid sets of reefers out west consisting of east coast owners and roads, this would have only occured under the most unusual of circumstances or if the cars were employed in a back haul capacity .
Dave
tomikawaTT To boil the above down to something the OP can take to the LHS: Solid blocks of reefers, or even entire trains of reefers, were a mainline phenomenon. A short line (or minor branch) in upstate New York would probably see reefers in ones and twos (incoming foodstuffs) unless there was a major producer of refrigerated product on-line. If there WAS a major originating point, the cars could be owned by the shipper or the short line, but would more likely belong to the major Class 1 connection. The reefers would reflect where the lading originated - California products in PFE cars, Maine potatoes in BAR or B&M cars, meat from Chicago in MDT or Armour cars... Beer would also arrive in reefers - quite colorful ones until the ICC outlawed rolling billboards. Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - where fish was a major reefer lading)
Chuck,Every night around 7:00pm a solid block of PFE and SF reefers would roll East on the PRR though Columbus..I never will forget that sight..
Up to the mid 50s one might see a J1 on this train.Then in the 60s its was usually pulled by GP30s or GP35s..I am not to sure when this train made its last run as a solid reefer train but,recall seeing it when I was braking on the PRR and into the early months of PC...
I know this train came off the Logansport Division at Bradford(Oh).
markpierce What you wouldn't find in the Northeast would be a 75-to-100-car train of solid reefers. That was reserved for the Western states. Mark
SP typically dispatched four reefer blocks east every 24 hours out of Roseville (lettuce, zucchini, fruit and onions) and another 4 to 6 out of Southern California (mostly Imperial Valley carrots) during the harvesting season. UP on the north and RI or MP on the south added to these blocks and by the time they were interchanged from CNW or RI or MP to PRR, NKP, NYC and B&O, they had in fact grown to well above 50 cars of solid produce. Don't know if the recieving roads polluted them with other traffic, but they certainly were enough cars to run on their own. During the harvest period around Redlands and San Bernardino, fresh citrus went east on the Santa Fe. Don't know how many trains a day, but NYC got one of them.
Keep in mind that PFE and other California shippers were primarily shipping oranges, grapefruit and such to the midwest, particularly Chicago. New York would be more likely to get it's citrus from Florida, simply because it was closer to New York. That's not to say you wouldn't see a PFE car in New York state, but you might be more likely to see one from a southern company than a western one. Similarly, although Washington apples and Idaho potatoes were well known nation-wide, I would expect more of those products ended up in the Chicago or other midwestern areas than in New York or other eastern cities.
New York Central ran solid blocks of reefers to New York City and Boston all the time. You would see cars from all the major refrigerator companies.